Haters going to hate

[DuncanWatson]

I am getting pretty darn tired of my threads on BROL always attracting two or more cruzbike haters. I get that it is a new skill to learn to ride a cruzbike but I am trying to show off how nice my bike is and how happy I am. Not get into yet another darn discussion about how some riders can't master the bikes and riding. And every one is the same. Talk about wrestling the bike and how they had curved left and right trying to go downhill.

I used to see this with juggling. If you try to learn juggling based on what people say and do, you will sit in your backyard trying for days and months to learn. If you follow a script you will be juggling three bags in an hour. Do the exercises, follow a plan and avoid teaching your nerve pathways bad habits.

The sad part is how everyone follows up how a CA 2 or other stick-bike is their new baby and so great. And I get that, they are nice bikes. But I CAN'T ride one. The design has a lower limit on size of riders inseam and I am below that. I rode a 650c Corsa for more than a year and never could do stop lights and stop signs well. And you save nearly 3" on 650c vs 700c.

Sorry for the rant,
Duncan

 

[Zzzorse]

Bob Pankratz eliminated any such concerns ages ago with his simple method. Bob's amazing. Bet Bob could write a cheat sheet for this bike,

 

[MrSteve]

Haters gotta hate.

There is no effective counter argument:
The truth is ineffective.
Race results are ineffective.
Company CEOs are simply dismissed.
Actual experience -if positive- is ineffective.

I still post there every now and then, just because, as a curious person,
it's fun to poke sticks at things to see what happens.

I still read the posts because, as an open-minded person, I still learn stuff.

 

[ratz]

Duncan,

We've all been there. You have to consider the history of the sources. The latest thread over there has two people that "at times" are quick with there conclusions. One was gushing about his Silvio and generally making me cringe every-time he went to far over the top about the Silvio and Cruzbikes in General; all along he was apparently struggling with the bike but not saying anything or asking for help. Now that his bike is sold he's happy and he is gushing in the same manner about the new steed. So you have to view it through that lens. The other had valid hand/arm reasons for leaving the Silvio behind is also much happier. Neither poster points to their complete history when they make their current statements, those of us that are ever present remember, we note the omissions, but we usually don't say anything. I could quote all their previous posts back at them (my google fu is strong, and the internet never forgets), but that just makes people angry and the threads devolve quickly. Frankly that does not move things forward and everyone is entitled to their current opinion and the rest of us are entitled to cross reference their historical opinions. How we act on our opinions defines each of our online personas.

My survival method, learned from working in customer service for 30 years, is the following: (1) Read every post as though it included the following "For me, I find the bike is.....xxxxxxx" that is really all anyone can ever say, to read it otherwise is the failing of the reader. (2) Assume everyone has a few past posts they regret and that this one might be one of those in the future. (3) Read all contractions as "do not" and "would not" instead of "don't", and "won't" you'll find that is how most people should write and they do not, contractions read confrontationally full words do not, always avoid contractions in your replies. (4) Respond with a level head, counter with facts and take the middle ground without emotion and you will usually shut those threads down or at least the your give pause to the opinionated folks that are chasing emotions and citing evidence that is likely omitting key details. As an Example I am always amazed at the number people claim speeds they get on their bikes; yet I am one of the few people I ever see who actually posts my meekly mortal real data. (5) lastly only fix your typos in posts that you are passionate or angry about; that way when someone reads all your posts and they spot one that is grammatically perfect they will have a strong idea about how you truly feel about the matter.

In the meantime make this place here the coolest place to geek out about your bike and pay it forward to our newbies.

 

[castlerobber]

I am getting pretty darn tired of my threads on BROL always attracting two or more cruzbike haters. I get that it is a new skill to learn to ride a cruzbike but I am trying to show off how nice my bike is and how happy I am. Not get into yet another darn discussion about how some riders can't master the bikes and riding. And every one is the same. Talk about wrestling the bike and how they had curved left and right trying to go downhill.

I've been following your thread over there. The former Cruzbiker who talks about how hard it is to control a CB when the rider is tired...well, I rode with him on a 30-mile group trail ride back in the spring. He couldn't ride a straight line on his Silvio at 10 to 12 mph, when he wasn't tired, with no vehicular traffic. Nor had he mastered starting on the flats, much less uphill. He had several hundred miles on it by then. You made a good point about training the muscle memory. I don't believe he had done adequate parking lot exercises before he went on the road.

What gets me is, there's a thread over there (something about the "straight and narrow") about how hard a time folks are having getting used to their recumbents, advice to be patient because it'll take at least 20 to 30 hours of riding time to get comfortable, how one of them sold a SWB 'bent because they just couldn't get the hang of it. That sounds like just as much of a learning curve as Cruzbikes are bashed for!

The sad part is how everyone follows up how a CA 2 or other stick-bike is their new baby and so great. And I get that, they are nice bikes. But I CAN'T ride one. The design has a lower limit on size of riders inseam and I am below that.

Right there with you. The owner of the local recumbent shop pestered me for about a year to get rid of my road bike, and get a stick-bike highracer ("they're fast!") to go with my tadpole trike. He's 6' plus. I'm 5'5", x-seam around 40.5", inseam of 30.5". That wasn't going to happen, not even with 650c wheels...

 

[ratz]

I don't believe he had done adequate parking lot exercises before he went on the road.

That's the key; but remember even Duncan had put some premature miles in before he had his, wow those exercises do wonders moment and head back to the car park. He will now succeed and advance to do great things. Sorry to rat you out Duncan but your experience is very valuable to point to .

In the end we all need to pretend we are 6 years old and learning to ride. I just wish it wasn't so hard to get us adults to accept the simple fact that 90% of the emergency handling of a bike happens at slow speed and thus your biggest bang comes from practicing really hard slow speed maneuvers so that they are second nature long long before they are needed. If you can do it at 3 mph you probably can do it at 15mph in a crisis. The reverse is not true.

If find it's easy to teach people in person where I can strong arm them into doing silly drills (by doing them with the student), it's far harder to convince an experience recumbent rider that they need to do the drills by using my keyboard. Perhaps we should offer Pizza vouchers for people that submit video proof of themselves doing the drills; I bet we'd get a lot of takers

Any how just keep paying it forward people; tell people to do the drills in a kind way; and in the meantime don't forget to go do some yourself now and then even those of use with many miles can get better each time. It wasn't until I was 40 that I perfect doing a 3-5 minute non moving brake-stand on my DF bikes, practice leads to skills. Until I can ride no hands with them folded behind my head on the Vendetta, I need more practice.

 

[Rick Youngblood]

The thing is, there are less than one handful of ex-cruzbikers over on BROL that had a hard time with their bike for various reasons...to me the main reasons are, not spending enough time on the bike, not tuning the bike to their fit, and not being patient. But what gets me is they talk like the problem was the bike...IT'S NOT THE BIKE FOLKS, IT"S YOU !! I peeked out the garage just seconds ago, it's not wobbling!

It took me 500 miles to gel on my Corsa 650, and 200 miles on the Silvio, and zero on the Vendetta!

 

[MrSteve]

It took me 500 miles to gel on my Corsa 650, and 200 miles on the Silvio, and zero on the Vendetta!

Well... it took me a long time to get familiar enough on my Sofrider to make decent power.
Was it a year?
A long time, anyway.
Then, I'd move the handlebar to a different spot and get used to that.
One day I'd spin the pedals like a madman; the next day I'd mash out slow cadences.
The chainring and bottom bracket got replaced by a triple.
Then, a front derailleur!

All the time, moving the handlebar, controls, seat, TFT (or whatever it's called nowadays... dang whippersnappers).
All the time, learning how everything connects to everything which affects everything else, at different speeds and power levels.
Test riding.

Some people pick up on Cruzbiking quickly.
Some do not.
I think that I fall somewhere in the middle.

It's a brilliantly simple bike... but satisfyingly complex.

 

[BentAero]

I had got to point last spring that if I saw that guy's name in a post, I just skipped it without reading. Forgive me, but I was not sad when he sold his Silvio w/ "300 miles" -and left. Apparently the money crunch was solved as soon as the Silvio was sold. He's happy with his new bike; I'm happy for him.

Rant on:
To stretch this thread a little further, I'm often amused by the reasons given for why someone sells something, "It doesn't fit me", "I can't get comfortable", or "I have a financial crisis" are none of my business, none of my concern, and are irrelevant to the sale of the product. If you're selling, and I'm buying, and we can come to an agreement on price, capitalism works!
I don't think trying to talk someone out of selling their bike ever works...
Rant off.

 

[DuncanWatson]

That's the key; but remember even Duncan had put some premature miles in before he had his, wow those exercises do wonders moment and head back to the car park. He will now succeed and advance to do great things. Sorry to rat you out Duncan but your experience is very valuable to point to .

No worries. I freely admit it. I tried to pedal first thing and stopped since that obviously didn't work for me. I followed the script and am doing much better. Of course now I am changing shoes, pedals and seat so I need to make sure to go slowly at first.

 

[jond]

some people act like
brolgas.

 

[Charles.Plager]

Here's my $0.034 (adjusted up for inflation).

Most y'all don't remember the "dark ages." Back then, not only were Cruzbikes hard to ride, but there had no evidence that they were fast. And they were always hard to control on the descents. And if you bought one, that meant that two families were going to go hungry that night and it was your fault.

O.k. That may not be entirely accurate.

But it really used to be a lot worse than it is now. The tribe is growing and unlike me, it's growing by people who can really get a bike to move. And that has helped Cruzbike's image a lot. By and large, BROL is much friendlier to MBB bikes than they used to be.

There are always going to be some people who don't want to get it. That's fine. Don't worry about them. Be calm and stay rational.

It isn't always the side with the best argument that wins, but sometimes the side that looks less insane. So let's be that side.***

And to close:

p.s. There really should be no sides here. I just want people to get off of their @$$ and then get right back on their @$$ and ride and I don't care how many wheels it has or which wheel has power.

Cruzbikes are a great choice for a lot of people, but not for everybody. I do think that they are a good choice for a lot of DF riders that haven't yet joined the dark side, but usually that isn't the audience at BROL.

 

[ratz]

The thing is, there are less than one handful of ex-cruzbikers over on BROL that had a hard time with their bike for various reasons...to me the main reasons are, not spending enough time on the bike, not tuning the bike to their fit, and not being patient. But what gets me is they talk like the problem was the bike...IT'S NOT THE BIKE FOLKS, IT"S YOU !! I peeked out the garage just seconds ago, it's not wobbling!

It took me 500 miles to gel on my Corsa 650, and 200 miles on the Silvio, and zero on the Vendetta!

Just for you @Rick Youngblood I decided to get into the pool, now you can stay dry and sane. Enjoy

So let's be that side.

How'd I do

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Just for you @Rick Youngblood I decided to get into the pool, now you can stay dry and sane. Enjoy

Well done my man! You get 5 happy faces ->>

 

[trplay]

LOL , Just got a refresher on why I seldom visit the BROL board.

 

[MrSteve]

But... the bike makes it's best power when it wobbles under you.
My bike wobbles best when it responds to my command to wobble.
It charges uphill when the frame slams back and forth.
Ummm ... like a D.F.

That's part of the reason, isn't it?
I mean, for the 'interesting' status that Cruzbike has, for some, on other fora?
D.F. bikes are the enemy for some recumbenteers, is my point.
-----
I gotta say, I'm loving that I'm the fastest old-guy recumbent driver
in my neck of the woods.
Should anyone ever ask me about the bike -and no one ever gets close enough-
they'll never ride one of these unridable bikes.
I'm selfish that way.
Sorry, Cruzbike Inc.
Sorry everybody.

 

[Tigerpaw]

As my grandfather used to say, ' wrestle with a hog and you both get dirty, but the hog likes it'.

 

[DuncanWatson]

Thanks for the support. In the end the best reward is my awesome Vendetta. It has been a while and I feel very good on it. I managed a start on a 5% hill, I can start in the big ring up front now as well. All I really need are miles and smiles. I did spill on my afternoon commute due to a calf cramp. That was because I didn't drink the entire ride home and I didn't shift my seating position at stops so I toed most of my left foot downs on the commute. So on a tricky 3% hill start I cramped and slowly toppled to my right (no not the drive train!), all was good but that was a lesson in taking care of myself and not being stupidly stubborn.

 

[DuncanWatson]

Every fing thread that involves cruzbikes turns into poo on BROL. The low point is the "I don't believe your powermeter" standard now on the 100 mile thread. And when that became indefensible, the poster decided that some random testing on a trainer with a power meter and a poorly outlined experiment is needed by cruzbike or all cruzbikers should just shut up. I am just ranting here because I am so tired. I love my bike and would like to post pictures of it along with stories of events without having idiots question why I am riding it, or why it even exists or why I am lying about something.

 

[Peder Torgersen]

There are some negative posters on Brol. There have also been many nice posters commenting on the 100 mile tread.