Help me decide - Q45 vs Bachetta Giro

[Mantissa]

Hi all, new here. I know this forum will be biased towards the Q45- Obviously. Still want opinions.

I live in the Colorado Rockies, so I have concerns with front wheel slip on loose dirt and gravel roads with the Q45. I am not a particularly good climber, but I am space-limited and looking for exactly one recumbent in my quiver to compliment my DF MTB, for the longer more relaxed rides. Ideally one I keep for a long time.

I'm also looking for a touring/adventure-focused bike. Hence Q45 vs. Giro.

The main thing the Q45 has over the Giro is suspension and the ability to pack down into the suitcase, both of which are valuable to me. I also like the Cruzbike's lower BB height, and the MBB design particularly due to no pedal knock risk- I use those huge PedalingInnovation pedals and I know they knock on a Giro 26.

Meanwhile, I know the Giro climbs worse but doesn't have that risk of slippage. Also has a more comfortable seat out of the box, better gearing range. Lastly, I've actually ridden a Giro before while I'll be going in blind with the Q45.

I've found a good deal on both used- Trying to figure out who I gotta let down gently. Help me decide?

 

[Tuloose]

I have climbed some switchbacked logging roads out here in OR on my T50.
I would say I was at the limit of traction and was surprised that I was able to make the climb.
However, where you will really have trouble is starting from a dead stop on a steep gravel road.
No matter how gently you try to apply pedal pressure you will get wheel slippage whereas if you are already moving you have an advantage.
My wife rides a Giro 26/20 and I would say that it is a slow but overall better gravel road climber than the Cruz since the weight bias on steep grades is more on the rear wheel and less on the front.
In my mt biking days we had to extend our upper bodies out over the front wheel on really steep climbs to keep the wheel on the ground so you can imagine what would happen to a FWD bike.
That said, I have found my T50 to be great on rail/trail type riding where the gravel grades are not overly steep.

 

[Mantissa]

Thanks for the perspective. One thing I've though about to kinda offset that is slapping an ebike hub on the rear wheel. Not even because I want the assist but because I imagine it would help immensely with keeping traction uphills.

...How much worse would you say the Giro is at climbing? Obviously so much of that is like, qualitative and subjective because a lot of climbing is just psychology.

 

[Tuloose]

There is a video of Robert Holler climbing a steep dirt grade on a T50 electric assist.
With 2 wheel drive it can practically climb a wall!
They were sold for awhile and you can find one a used now & then or just make your own.

I would say a Cruzbike is a better climber on paved roads than the Giro and overall more fun to ride but they are not mountain bikes.
Any recumbent is not going to handle rough single track trails as well as a diamond frame mt bike. They lack the ability to loft the front wheel over obstacles and can't bunny hop at all.

 

[Robert Holler]

There is a video of Robert Holler climbing a steep dirt grade on a T50 electric assist.
With 2 wheel drive it can practically climb a wall!
They were sold for awhile and you can find one a used now & then or just make your own.

I would say a Cruzbike is a better climber on paved roads than the Giro and overall more fun to ride but they are not mountain bikes.
Any recumbent is not going to handle rough single track trails as well as a diamond frame mt bike. They lack the ability to loft the front wheel over obstacles and can't bunny hop at all.

All true. And indeed I firmly believe that there is no 2 wheel recumbent out there that could out climb a rear (front) hub assisted Cruzbike.

AWD will always win there. This little hill at the retreat was pretty slippery. Many tried. Only the T50e succeeded. I only had street tires (stock) on the bike. It would have been a challenge even on an upright MTB with proper tires. On a regular RWD recumbent this would be impossible or at best the rear wheel would have washed out as soon as it lost traction.

The stiffness of the front end cannot be underestimated on climbs. On other RWD recumbents I can deflect the cranks under pressure visibly - flex in the chain, frame, boom.... this does not happen with the FWD. And there can be some acclimatization to climbing on an FWD, but no more that the concentration and focus it takes on a RWD climb to avoid heel strike.

 

[Mantissa]

There is a video of Robert Holler climbing a steep dirt grade on a T50 electric assist.
With 2 wheel drive it can practically climb a wall!
They were sold for awhile and you can find one a used now & then or just make your own.

I would say a Cruzbike is a better climber on paved roads than the Giro and overall more fun to ride but they are not mountain bikes.
Any recumbent is not going to handle rough single track trails as well as a diamond frame mt bike. They lack the ability to loft the front wheel over obstacles and can't bunny hop at all.

Yeah- To be clear, I'm not looking to replace my DF MTB. My old man has a Giro 26 with a Rohloff hub which he let me try out over ~50 or so miles of riding, and it really was the most fun I've ever had with road/light gravel riding.

I can still ride my DF MTB for proper trail riding. I'm moreso looking for a replacement for my road bike + expanding my road riding to adventure gravel/dirt. Something that can do mixed road/dirt double track/light gravel which will be able to handle Colorado's at times very steep dirt hills. Hence my concern of worse climbing with, say, a Giro in trade for the ability to spin up steep hills without slipping.

That being said, it sounds like electrifying the rear wheel won't be _too_ hard if I find myself regularly riding hills I slip on. I can pick up a Grin hub to fit the thru axle and I have some Ego batteries I needed a use for anyways.

 

[veloc_h]

The stiffness of the front end cannot be underestimated on climbs. On other RWD recumbents I can deflect the cranks under pressure visibly - flex in the chain, frame, boom....

not with the Wolf&Wolf Alpentourer (steel tube frame). A very good recumbent, developed by Swiss alpin pass cyclists.
Edit: I had an older version of the Alpentourer, a Bacchetta CA3 and I own a Cruzbike QX100 too. Actually the front end of the Bacchetta felt very stiff (ok, my weight is 70kg "only"). Off course the front of a MBB is even stiffier, but it reacts slower to change of direction (spinning effect).