High Speed Turns

[Always-Learnin]

I apologize if this has been discussed and answered before...I couldn't find it if it was.

I have a sharp, almost 90 degree right hand, down hill turn on my regular ride. I was wondering what the best technique is for taking these kinds of turns at speed?

TIA

 

[JOSEPHWEISSERT]

I apologize if this has been discussed and answered before...I couldn't find it if it was.

I have a sharp, almost 90 degree right hand, down hill turn on my regular ride. I was wondering what the best technique is for taking these kinds of turns at speed?

TIA

I used to race weekly on a DF on a 1.75 mile racetrack that had hills and curves for 35-mile to 42-mile races. Sometimes it would rain during a race, and the track would get very slippery from oil and rubber, since it was a regular racetrack any other time. I found that I could handle the wet turns at racing speed as long as I kept the bike upright (not leaning) and only leaned my body. As long as the bike was upright, the back tire could and would slide all over the place, but the bike would not slide out from under me. I still use that technique on my V to avoid sliding out on turns that have gravel.

 

[LMT]

Presuming you are based where they drive on the right had side of the road rather than the left.

Place yourself as far over the left of the road as you can leading up to the turn, you don't want to apply any brake or power when going through the turn so make sure you are at the speed that you want, steer in just before cutting the corner and then let the bike drift back out towards the left hand side of the road, wait until the bike is straightened up before applying the power.

 

[Always-Learnin]

Presuming you are based where they drive on the right had side of the road rather than the left.

Place yourself as far over the left of the road as you can leading up to the turn, you don't want to apply any brake or power when going through the turn so make sure you are at the speed that you want, steer in just before cutting the corner and then let the bike drift back out towards the left hand side of the road, wait until the bike is straightened up before applying the power.

Thanks for that... I should have clarified... I do ride a Harley Ultra Classic Limited so I know how to set up for and complete turns...inside, outside, repeat... My issue is really how to properly position my body on the bike during high speed turns. I read in another thread that you are supposed to drop your outside shoulder...at least that is how I interpreted it. I hope that is right. See link. http://cruzbike.com/forum/threads/spring-time-learning-to-ride-time.10889/

6) Start doing shallow turns; when you turn "DROP" your outside shoulder; it should feel like a reverse shrug; just relax you shoulder muscle so the shoulder drops. Some riders simply "lean out." This is the same thing you do on racing motorcycles and snowmobiles you have to lean OUT ever so slightly on the turn; this is the opposite of what you do on a road bike. This is the #1 thing DF riders do wrong; they want to lean in to the turn; and coast; at which point they start to fall into the ground. On a Cruzbike you can lean out and pedal through the turn.​

I am a little confused. JosephWeissert above says, "[keep] the bike upright (not leaning) and only lean[ed] [your] body". That would seem to contradict what I read, but I may be misinterpreting... I'm not too bright.

I tried dropping my shoulder today as I entered the big, fast, turn on my ride...it seemed to help, but again, I may not be understanding the physics of this and I may just be lucky!

 

[1happyreader]

I tried dropping my shoulder today as I entered the big, fast, turn on my ride...it seemed to help, but again, I may not be understanding the physics of this and I may just be lucky!

Snowmobile leans helped me a lot with SLOW tight turns ( pedistrian bridges ) don't have expertise with fast ! LOL

Did try a little rear brake drag to keep me pedaling so I could turn loose and do the last ½ or more of the turn under power to take advantage of the ability of the cruzbike to pedal and maybe accelerate with the bike leaning at an angle.
That definitely goes against all my DF habits/reflexes.
???? any other fast guys got an favorite technique ?

 

[ratz]

Lean out and/or drop shoulder is for:

• Slow turns
• Turns where you are up off the seat and can move seperately from the bike.
• Turns beyond 90 degrees
• Turns where you cannot carry momentum and are slowing (causing you to fall inward)
• Bad conditions where you have to keep weight over the wheels to maintain traction.

If the turn is well known and traction is good then a slalom turn; where you accelerate, pedal through, and lean in and carve the turn, is really fun. This approach requires some amount of high mileage familiarity with the bike and good torso strength. A good place to practice that is riding at a running track at a local school. If you start to lose it you have to lean up/out and steer out of it; hence the reason for practice.

Around here on the roads with round-abouts (traffic circles) are the usually the place for that.

 

[Always-Learnin]

Lean out and/or drop shoulder is for:

• Slow turns
• Turns where you are up off the seat and can move seperately from the bike.
• Turns beyond 90 degrees
• Turns where you cannot carry momentum and are slowing (causing you to fall inward)
• Bad conditions where you have to keep weight over the wheels to maintain traction.

If the turn is well known and traction is good then a slalom turn; where you accelerate, pedal through, and lean in and carve the turn, is really fun. This approach requires some amount of high mileage familiarity with the bike and good torso strength. A good place to practice that is riding at a running track at a local school. If you start to lose it you have to lean up/out and steer out of it; hence the reason for practice.

Around here on the roads with round-abouts (traffic circles) are the usually the place for that.

Well, I obviously misunderstood...

My big turn is 90 degrees, downhill, and fast. I had no idea what a slalom turn is and I have no experience with Snowmobiles, (he said red faced), so I appreciate the explanation. It is so sharp that I can't see myself "pedaling through it" safely currently. So I guess I need to work on "leaning in and carving the turn". Do I push the bike away from the turn as I lean, like motorcycle racers do?

TIA

 

[ratz]

Well, I obviously misunderstood...

My big turn is 90 degrees, downhill, and fast. I had no idea what a slalom turn is and I have no experience with Snowmobiles, (he said red faced), so I appreciate the explanation. It is so sharp that I can't see myself "pedaling through it" safely currently. So I guess I need to work on "leaning in and carving the turn". Do I push the bike away from the turn as I lean, like motorcycle racers do?

TIA

I think you are following along but perhaps over thinking. To me; 90 degrees, downhill and fast ; says Get on the Brakes; Slow down before the turn; and be safe. I'm assuming this is not a stop sign corner and clear enough that you can see on coming traffic.... (omg I sound like wear your helmet guy)... but seriously just be sure you aren't over reaching your current skills setup. Any turn like that probably gives everyone here a big big pause to consider other than Jason whose got made motorized skills and experience. Around here a turn like that is certain to have loose gravel to add to the treacherousness so factor that into my reaction.

If you are going to Lean in to the turn and get the bike over more than 45 degrees; then you will be pedaling in most cases. You don't so much lean-in; as you start the turn with a lean; and then keep pedaling so that your speed stays up; and your g-forces in the turn will let you hold your line against gravity; This is what water and snow boarders do; speed and centrifugal force keep you up, as you Accelerate out of the apex of the turn. Remember Front Wheel drive; the tire is going to pull you through and out of the turn.

IF you can't pedal through the turn then you lean up and out to keep the wheels loaded with as much weight as possible; so the tires can carve the line; when you coast the tires are pushing you out of the turn with friction/resistance. As Jason has pointed out before it really helps to have the correct foot "up" so that you when you start pedaling you push the bike out of the turn.

Joe's upright turn approach is beyond my skills; I've never been able to keep the bike vertical and lean out; I'm too heavy from the waist up; or I lack the technique. I'm sure he can provide some tips for that.

Like everything we say around here; if you can practice this some place controlled; 20 minutes will be worth 20 rides of experience.

 

[DavidCH]

Watch Larry take his last two turns in this epic!

 

[Tigerpaw]

Yep, that next to the last turn was a sharp 120ish turn up hill and really tough to see incoming traffic.

 

[bladderhead]

As Larry exited the penultimate turn he went onto the wrong side of the road. I do that sometimes. I always wonder what the oncoming driver thinks of THAT flying out of nowhere.

 

[LMT]

Thanks for that... I should have clarified... I do ride a Harley Ultra Classic Limited so I know how to set up for and complete turns...inside, outside, repeat... My issue is really how to properly position my body on the bike during high speed turns. I read in another thread that you are supposed to drop your outside shoulder...at least that is how I interpreted it. I hope that is right. See link. http://cruzbike.com/forum/threads/spring-time-learning-to-ride-time.10889/

6) Start doing shallow turns; when you turn "DROP" your outside shoulder; it should feel like a reverse shrug; just relax you shoulder muscle so the shoulder drops. Some riders simply "lean out." This is the same thing you do on racing motorcycles and snowmobiles you have to lean OUT ever so slightly on the turn; this is the opposite of what you do on a road bike. This is the #1 thing DF riders do wrong; they want to lean in to the turn; and coast; at which point they start to fall into the ground. On a Cruzbike you can lean out and pedal through the turn.​

I am a little confused. JosephWeissert above says, "[keep] the bike upright (not leaning) and only lean[ed] [your] body". That would seem to contradict what I read, but I may be misinterpreting... I'm not too bright.

I tried dropping my shoulder today as I entered the big, fast, turn on my ride...it seemed to help, but again, I may not be understanding the physics of this and I may just be lucky!

I'm not even sure that your body position would matter as the centre of gravity is pretty low to ground anyways?

FWIW with the exception of sitting up when approaching a junction to look for traffic I don't adjust my body position. Just go with the flow and let the bike do the work.

 

[DavidCH]

As Larry exited the penultimate turn he went onto the wrong side of the road. I do that sometimes. I always wonder what the oncoming driver thinks of THAT flying out of nowhere.

I did that this morning too... There had been roadworks there during the week and there was all kinds of dirt , dust and gravel. I thought best not lean into this turn so I took it wide and long.

 

[AbramClark]

I kept the bike upright (not leaning) and only leaned my body. As long as the bike was upright, the back tire could and would slide all over the place, but the bike would not slide out from under me. I still use that technique on my V to avoid sliding out on turns that have gravel.

Very interesting. I've found myself doing the opposite on winding downhills at 20-30 mph, where I lean the bike over hard but counter-lean so my body stays close to vertical. I think one reason I like this is it allows me to quickly and accurately lean the opposite way into the next turn, while still getting plenty of lean to take the turn quickly. If I see any interruption of the road surface at all, a bump or gravel, I steer around it or straighten out briefly to ride over it. Generally I always move to the left edge of the lane and take the corner harder than I have to so I have some steering room to avoid things.

Is this bad instinct? I almost want to start another thread for high speed winding turns .