How Many Watts Are Needed To Break The Current 24HR World Record?

[LarryOz]

With around 15 watts less your averaging about 1mph more then me. I know you weigh less then me but on a steady state ride like this I wonder how much that weight difference matters. I also wonder how much speed your track loops gain you over my open roads route where I have tight 90 deg corners and a dozen stop signs ever 14 mile lap to contend with. I guess it's a mute point since I can fathom the mental numbness required to do those tiny little laps hundreds of time.

I guess there's also you handlebar setup to factor when comparing our speeds. Every time I've tried to hold on to the flats of my bars between the hoods I nearly crash. It's crazy how all stability is lost when I try moving my hand to the center. I think rotating my hand 90degs to hold that part of the bars doesn't help ether with my bad wrists. I've considered some narrow gunners bars so I can maintain the same wrist rotation and just move my hand to center but that'll have to wait till I have more time and money.

Why tri spoke on the rear on thurs day vs a disc?

Hey Jason,
I am so bummed out on power meters right now.
I got a set of Powertap P1 pedals because my Garmin Vectors just seemed to be "off" for some reason, possibly reading lower and lower as time went by - I think because of a faulty pod.
During recent testing I was able to ride 25mph on only 170 watts - seemingly impossible on an unfaired bike of any kind - especially when a year ago it was taking me 200 watts to average 25mph.
That was also my power and speed on my open road Century a year ago, with minor hills, turns, traffic, and steady 10-12mph wind.
I did have other tests on the track here where I could do nearly 27 on about 215 with perfect conditions.
Some of my testing rides (all done with Garmin Vector Pedals:
26.2 mph for 100 miles on 196 watts on track (https://www.strava.com/activities/590900832)
24.7 mph for 100 miles on 155 watts a track (with a fall) - (https://www.strava.com/activities/356619174)
26.5 mph for 100 miles on 203 watts on a track (https://www.strava.com/activities/369589798) - my faster Century at 3:47:48 - un-assisted and carrying 5 waters bottles full of fuel and water.
26.9 mph for 60 miles on 213 watts on a track (https://www.strava.com/activities/287960236)

2 weeks ago - I get new pods, and all of a sudden my Vectors are reading 220 watts when my KICKR is reading 200 watts. Now it takes 200 watts to go 25 on the track instead of 26.5!
Something just does not add up.
Got a set of P1's and they read 184 watts when my KICKR reads 200.
So now Garmin and Powertap are 30 watts apart - 184 - 214! Both tests while KICKR is in ERG holding what it thinks is 200 watts. Collected pedal power data on a Garmin simultaneously if you wondered how.
Not sure what to make of it all.
I know, I know - many may say the it doesn't matter as long as it is consistent so you can at least train correctly, but in my limited experience it seems like the Vectors have been anything but consistent.
And now, if I take the P1's to the track - they will probably tell me I only need to push 160watts to go 25mph - craziness! haha
...
But back to your comments: yes, I may weight less than you (around 150), and am probably more aeor than you with my little handlebars (testing them with stock I gained about 0.5 mph), and if you are still riding disk brakes you may be loosing something there too. Handlebars: I think it is just what you get used to. I can now ride those little bars in packs at high speeds pretty comfortably, although I think I probably still do give up some control aspect.
Yes, and the track does give you faster speeds (usually ) with equivalent wattage mostly because you do not ever have to slow down and there is pretty much no climbing. I think riding on this track a compared to the open road I will gain at least 1 mph with the same wattage. If you ride an indoor track, add another 1mph. That is how Baloh (and others) can do their 8hour 200 mile rides (True be told, Baloh did that near 8 hour 200 mile during a 24 indoor track record attempt - so he could have obviously went faster)

More later - keep up the great work Jason - we are all behind you.

 

[RojoRacing]

Weird because my power numbers seem to be rather consistent on my rides given how random the terrain is. I have the newer Vector 2 pedals with the plastic pods if that matters at all. I do have one rider on my lunch rides who although is taller than me is probably 5-10lbs lighter than me. He has a crank based power meter and even is we ride the whole ride together he will record 20-30 watts more than me. What do you torque your pedals to when you install them? I swap my Vectors between both bike twice a week and always torque them to 27.5FtLbs.

I thought you were supposed to be garden gnome sized at 3'4" and 78lbs? I swear that's what I heard on this forum a few months ago. I'm at 155lbs right now so only 5lbs more than you isn't going to matter much.

 

[ratz]

Got a set of P1's and they read 184 watts when my KICKR reads 200.
So now Garmin and Powertap are 30 watts apart - 184 - 214! Both tests while KICKR is in ERG holding what it thinks is 200 watts. Collected pedal power data on a Garmin simultaneously if you wondered how.

This is normal for the P1's we see the same thing on both bike versus Kickr versus QXL rings. Some things to consider.

1. You have an older kickr; it transmits a 5 sec average power not realtime power.
2. The powertap p1's if you are using them in Trainer Road function as a Left Only right now; in that Trainer Road only records Left power in the current version, you might check with tech support, I last chatted wtih them about this in June-July.

If you want to compare P1 to Kickr Power. Connect your Garmin to the P1's while you ride the Kickr; and watch both your 3 second and 10 second power readings while watching your power on the kickr. For steady state efforts you will find that with QxL rings the P1's will read about 10-11 watts lower, that been consist here every time I test it. Low inertia versus high inertia testing will have a slight difference. Power meters usually have a 2% error rate; At 225 watts that +/- 4.5 watts; this is part of the reason most of dc-rainmakers tests / comparisons are smoothed to 30 seconds.

All that matters with the P1's is to know that of if you are training with Kickr Power; then when you go on the road and use the Garmin; then just lower your power goals by ~10 watts and you'll get the performance you trained up to on the Kickr. You can practice this by training on Kickr Power with TR and monitoring the same ride real time with the P1/s via the a garmin. This is what we did with hawk-eye.

I'm about to do an 8 week block of training with the P1's and power match; we'll see how that works or fails. Last time I tried powertap + power match wasn't ready and I had to give up and go back to Kickr Power to get good workouts, but now we have a new version of the software.

In the end it's relative; Test FTP, scale training based on FTP and be consistent with the meter you use; when you go on the road if you used Kickr Power indoors have a rough idea of the delta to your pedals and shift your target. Outdoors you probably want to watch 3s and 10s power; as the instantaneous stuff is too jittery for most endurance stuff.

Not sure that helps but it's been very consistent for us; I expect the vector show similar characteristics either high or low.

PS: this is also why I only compare my power number to my own numbers; every meter is different so it's just not worth comparing to me....

 

[cranky cyclist]

There is a good article on knee pain on the bikeradar.com website.

 

[LarryOz]

What do you torque your pedals to when you install them? I swap my Vectors between both bike twice a week and always torque them to 27.5FtLbs.

I thought you were supposed to be garden gnome sized at 3'4" and 78lbs? I swear that's what I heard on this forum a few months ago. I'm at 155lbs right now so only 5lbs more than you isn't going to matter much.

I torque them to pretty much the same as you.
I guess I'll eat Pizza for the next week for supper. Then we can have the same weight.
Of course our biggest difference is our age: you're reported to be 20, and I am reported to be 90!
All that means is that I have lots of gray hair, so you had better be a lot faster than me ... , which no doubt you are!

 

[ratz]

I torque them to pretty much the same as you.
I guess I'll eat Pizza for the next week for supper. Then we can have the same weight.
Of course our biggest difference is our age: you're reported to be 20, and I am reported to be 90!
All that means is that I have lots of gray hair, so you had better be a lot faster than me ... , which no doubt you are!

Pappa smurf and Baker Smurf (from the donut shop)

 

[RojoRacing]

Pappa smurf and Baker Smurf (from the donut shop)

Wait, there was a donut shop in the Smurf cartoon? How did I not know this?

 

[RojoRacing]

Ok so I just got done with yet another flat land session on the V. I spent 30 mins last night and 30 mins this morning rolling out my legs and stretching in hopes my knee pain would not reappear. Headed out and was cruising at 24.4mph and 210watts for the first two hours. Made I quick 30 second pit stop to grab two new bottles and back up to speed. My avg watts dropped to 207 with the pit stop and continued to drop to 204 over the next hour. I felt like I was pushing about the same but my avg speed was also losing a few tenths. I started to put some effort in and got my watts to recover to 205 where it would remain the rest of the ride. About this time I noticed my HR was slowly climbing from mid 120s to 130s and then 140s. If I was racing the 24hr I would have backed off and reset my pace lower but I figured I could try and hold 24mph avg for as long as possible. 4:30hrs in and I was really having to focus to keep up the pace with the breeze turn into more of a wind. My HR was solidly into 150s and I thought I saw 160 in the final miles. My muscles and connecting tissues in general were starting to protest just a little so I figures my body was probably fatigued in general so I called it quits at mile 130. I was finding it very hard to keep motivated doing loops on the same roads. I hope in the race in a few weeks passing through the pits each lap and hearing the cheers of the crowd will carry me through the new lap. The good news is my knee never hurt and my biometrics in general felt spot on. I wonder how much easier 190watts would feel like over the long haul. I think 190 would be a better number to shoot for unless I make some major gains during my taper week.
https://www.strava.com/activities/752850719

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Ok so I just got done with yet another flat land session on the V. I spent 30 mins last night and 30 mins this morning rolling out my legs and stretching in hopes my knee pain would not reappear. Headed out and was cruising at 24.4mph and 210watts for the first two hours. Made I quick 30 second pit stop to grab two new bottles and back up to speed. My avg watts dropped to 207 with the pit stop and continued to drop to 204 over the next hour. I felt like I was pushing about the same but my avg speed was also losing a few tenths. I started to put some effort in and got my watts to recover to 205 where it would remain the rest of the ride. About this time I noticed my HR was slowly climbing from mid 120s to 130s and then 140s. If I was racing the 24hr I would have backed off and reset my pace lower but I figured I could try and hold 24mph avg for as long as possible. 4:30hrs in and I was really having to focus to keep up the pace with the breeze turn into more of a wind. My HR was solidly into 150s and I thought I saw 160 in the final miles. My muscles and connecting tissues in general were starting to protest just a little so I figures my body was probably fatigued in general so I called it quits at mile 130. I was finding it very hard to keep motivated doing loops on the same roads. I hope in the race in a few weeks passing through the pits each lap and hearing the cheers of the crowd will carry me through the new lap. The good news is my knee never hurt and my biometrics in general felt spot on. I wonder how much easier 190watts would feel like over the long haul. I think 190 would be a better number to shoot for unless I make some major gains during my taper week.
https://www.strava.com/activities/752850719

And don't forget to listen to us at home cheering you on.

Glad to read the part "no knee pain". It's a good idea to use the foam roller right after a good long ride like that.

 

[RojoRacing]

Ever wonder what the gap is between a hobbiest and a PRO is in the ultra cycling world?

Christoph Strasser recent training ride with not one, not two, not three, but four 400 watt over unders at 15 mins each. In comparison I currently can only hold about 325watts for 15 mins and only one time in a ride not four times in a row. With some recently discovered motivation I hope to get that 15 min power up to around 375 but damn if 400 watt repeats seems a bit far fetched for someone doing after work rides.

 

[ed72]

400 Watt 15 x 4 off an FTP of 393 (311 divided by his intensity factor) makes me feel weak on several levels. Notice his HR barely hits 150. Scary.

 

[ed72]

So, I went to the UMCA website and the records are very easy to search and read but I am confused. I was thinking of trying some sort of record next year in the 60+ male category. I only see Valerio in there for 60 years old but he rode an upright on an indoor track. I guess it is too expensive or difficult for a bent rider? i just found it odd no or very few bent records.

How much power to break 585 miles indoor track in 24 hours?

150 watts would get you 25 mph.

1.15 kg/m3 air density (needs to be warm and moist like NC or up high at Co Springs.....not sure the rules)
0.0025 Crr
0.152 CdA
165 pound rider

 

[GetBent]

Yikes! You guys are fast. My best is 20.1 mph over 20 miles on a flat course with no wind.

 

[Gary123]

Hey we need to ride together.

 

[RojoRacing]

So, I went to the UMCA website and the records are very easy to search and read but I am confused. I was thinking of trying some sort of record next year in the 60+ male category. I only see Valerio in there for 60 years old but he rode an upright on an indoor track. I guess it is too expensive or difficult for a bent rider? i just found it odd no or very few bent records.

How much power to break 585 miles indoor track in 24 hours?

150 watts would get you 25 mph.

1.15 kg/m3 air density (needs to be warm and moist like NC or up high at Co Springs.....not sure the rules)
0.0025 Crr
0.152 CdA
165 pound rider

well based of estimates of Jim and Larry I'm probably more around 0.175 CdA or more. I know record attempts should be uncompromising but I can't seem to change my bike around so it sucks in the mountain just for one flat race.

 

[ed72]

well based of estimates of Jim and Larry I'm probably more around 0.175 CdA or more. I know record attempts should be uncompromising but I can't seem to change my bike around so it sucks in the mountain just for one flat race.

I like guessing games. Based upon your prior race files, I guessed your CdA at 0.200 and Larry is prbably under 0.150 on that special prototype V20 and 0.160 on the stock setup, approximately. If my guess is true, you'd need 200 watts to average 24.3 mph unless on a track or very unusually smooth roads. If cleaning aero up to 0.160 were possible, power required for 24.3 mph drops 30 watts to about 170. 30 watts is like increasing your FTP by 50 watts (assume 60% of FTP would be average 24H pace)

From my aero testing, lose or wrinkly jerseys are bigger loses on bents than on uprights but I do have an aero belly that comes into play.

I hope you do it!

 

[RojoRacing]

I like guessing games. Based upon your prior race files, I guessed your CdA at 0.200 and Larry is prbably under 0.150 on that special prototype V20 and 0.160 on the stock setup, approximately. If my guess is true, you'd need 200 watts to average 24.3 mph unless on a track or very unusually smooth roads. If cleaning aero up to 0.160 were possible, power required for 24.3 mph drops 30 watts to about 170. 30 watts is like increasing your FTP by 50 watts (assume 60% of FTP would be average 24H pace)

From my aero testing, lose or wrinkly jerseys are bigger loses on bents than on uprights but I do have an aero belly that comes into play.

I hope you do it!

Yup those are very close number based on my 200 watt testing two years ago where I was averaging 24 mph on 10 mile loop on some not the best roads. I'd rather increase my FTP by 50 watts and be fast on the DF bike as well

 

[ed72]

Yup those are very close number based on my 200 watt testing two years ago where I was averaging 24 mph on 10 mile loop on some not the best roads. I'd rather increase my FTP by 50 watts and be fast on the DF bike as well

I'll go for slippery.

"Old age and treachery will always beat youth and exuberance."