I dread the pedal steer

[PaulW]

I'll keep the long and boring story short, but basically I own a P-38 and I've tried a light high racer and a light low racer and neither was faster than my P-38 over mixed terrain. The problem seems to be that for anyone with a longish x-seam, the required extension of the crank tube on 'stick' bikes increases flex and robs the bikes of power when climbing.

So I bought a Softrider and sure enough it climbed as well as my P-38 and seemed very fast on the flat. However, I dreaded the pedal steer. I got to ride it OK but it seemed very physical and like a wrestling match with the handlebars. So I sold it.

I still think the design (apart from the MBB) overcomes the issues that plague recumbents. The issues to which I refer are power robbing idlers, long heavy chains and frame flex. There's also the issue of very rough chipseal and the Silvio suspension seems a clever solution.

So I'm looking sideways at the Silvio and wondering.......

Would 150 mm cranks and wide handlebars tame the beast long enough for me to learn to love it?

I'd appreciate some input from owners with regard to the handling characteristics even though I assume they're similar to the Softrider. One issue I had with the Softrider was the very heavy front triangle.

 

[JonB]

PaulW wrote: So I'm looking sideways at the Silvio and wondering.......

Would 150 mm cranks and wide handlebars tame the beast long enough for me to learn to love it?

I'd appreciate some input from owners with regard to the handling characteristics even though I assume they're similar to the Softrider. One issue I had with the Softrider was the very heavy front triangle.

It will basically feel the same. Though the lighter front triangle on the Silvio might affect as well.

I have a freerider, with the big and wide handlebars. I think the bigger handlebar will help you, but not as much as practice will. just keep on rolling baby.

 

[Mark B]

To be honest, it gets much easier with time in the saddle. At first, it seems like a battle, but it becomes more of a dance as your body igures it out. Most of the time, just cruising down the street, I can ride almost hands free. When hammering, or sprinting, the upper body involvement is needed. Sometimes, after a hard day of climbing, I can get sore in the arms and shoulders. There's a side benifit, too.

We were at a Christmas eve gathering and the hostess put her hand on my shoulder, then started down my arm and said, "Where did THAT come from? That's not bike riding muscle!'

Oh yes it is!

Mark

 

[WhiteSilvio]

PaulW wrote:
I still think the design (apart from the MBB) overcomes the issues that plague recumbents. The issues to which I refer are power robbing idlers, long heavy chains and frame flex. There's also the issue of very rough chipseal and the Silvio suspension seems a clever solution.
So I'm looking sideways at the Silvio and wondering.......
Would 150 mm cranks and wide handlebars tame the beast long enough for me to learn to love it?
I'd appreciate some input from owners with regard to the handling characteristics even though I assume they're similar to the Softrider.

Hi Paul,
I have a Silvio, never ridden a Sofrider, and my time on other recumbents can, unfortunately, be measured in minutes. But I do have some experience of the Silvio.
I have 170mm cranks and 41cm centre-to-centre of standard road 'bars, narrow by Silvio standards. Pedal steer is for me, not a problem. Even on climbing, trying to hang on to the quicker light-weight DF riders, it is really not an issue.
Even while "powering on/sprinting up to speed" if one takes a little care with the pedal motion, making it as "even" as possible, any pedal steer is hardly noticeable. Things seem to cancel out. And even when I just "goes for it", I am definitely not swerving all over the road, hardly even a gentle weave. Nothing as untidy as an all out sprint finish in the TDF!!
As Mark B has been saying for quite some time, and I agree, it's all a matter of time in the saddle.

PaulW wrote: One issue I had with the Softrider was the very heavy front triangle.

The front end of the Silvio definitely has a fair proportion of the bike's weight in it, but once you have your legs and arms "all over the front end", the apparent weight of the front end in the unloaded bike, disappears.
The overall weight of the bike is, by recumbent standards, fairly reasonable, and I don't imagine you'll have any problems with this aspect of the Silvio, as a seasoned bent rider, particularly as you found the Sofrider good for climbing and "very fast on the flat". The Silvio is lighter than a Sofrider.
So for what it's worth, some feedback on riding a Silvio.
Regards,
John R.

 

[John Tolhurst]

What I read here is that riders internalise the skill. Riding a little and mixing that riding with RWD bents would probably make it harder for that to happen.

When I shift from a RWD bike, our Sigma, to my Silvio I find the first minute or so feels strange, then that feeling vanishes and the ride is smooth and solid, as described by Jon B, Mark B and John R.

 

[philsummers]

Hi Paul,

I have been riding bents for almost 20 years and I have to say that getting on the Silvio was a real eye opener!

My normal ride is a dual 700 T-Bone which is hard to beat for hill climbing or anything else for that matter. I think the Silvio might be able to do it. I found that at about 50 miles of practice it just began to feel like any other bike. My riding buddy said he would not have known any difference had he not known it was a MBB.

For the first 30 miles of riding I too wondered if this was the way to go but I think it will prove out to be fine. I practice sprints up to 30 mph from a dead stop quite often and that will give you incentive to keep things in line. I also practiced doing cone weaves, tight u turns and figure 8's while peddling in the first few hours of riding. It just takes awhile for your brain to accept the fact that your feet can determine your direction as well as your hands, and don't get the two mixed up!!

I have noticed that on when I get back from long rides that my hands are feeling well used. Not sore but just like I have been hanging on to something very active. I rather like the feel. On the other hand while you are riding you can almost let go of the bars if you are in the zen state. Almost is as far as I have been so far!

As far as the front end being heavy....well, that's where everything is! I also would put 152 cranks on if I were outfitting it myself. I have run 152's before and loved it. I am sure it would lessen the peddle steer but by how much I have no idea.

What I am finding is that its aerodynamics are less than the Bones. My riding buddy has a FWD Z-Bone and I have trouble keeping up with him on the flats and downhills. He just gradually pulls away. When I am on my Bone we are very evenly matched. I was hoping that John would make a rear end that was more laid back and that would switch out and work on the Silvio but I see that will not be. My alternative is to add padding to the seat and slouch way down and scoot forward as far as possible.

I am running a Garmin 705 with a PowerTap so I can get some good power figures on what is going on when I get it all sorted out. It is outfitted with Campy Record components which seem to be "da bomb". Once I get some good baseline rides with power I will move the Powertap over to the Bone and see what the differences are.

So Paul, I would say if the Sofrider climbed as good as the P38 than all you need to do is get some hours in and with the Silvio you will have no problems.

By the way, this is the first bent that has the bike shop boys drooling..

The bike is certainly not for everyone but it can be ridden as well as any other with some time and miles and it is a beautiful bike.

Oh, and my head doesn't vibrate on chip seal with the Silvio like it does on the Bone.

Cheers

Phil

 

[JonB]

philsummers wrote: What I am finding is that its aerodynamics are less than the Bones. My riding buddy has a FWD Z-Bone and I have trouble keeping up with him on the flats and downhills. He just gradually pulls away. When I am on my Bone we are very evenly matched. I was hoping that John would make a rear end that was more laid back and that would switch out and work on the Silvio but I see that will not be. My alternative is to add padding to the seat and slouch way down and scoot forward as far as possible.

Have you thought about building a tail fairing?

 

[philsummers]

Jon,
Yes, but after running a tail fairing on the Bone and not being able to tell any difference I just hate to cobble up a pretty bike to make it go a small percentage faster. Having said that, I may think about rigging up my carbon GRR fairing just to see how it might work.
What do you think?

Cheers
Phil

 

[defjack]

Were you using clipless pedals and pedaling 360? It really helps.I tried to get some pedal steer on my Silvio today and could not do it.I do have 153 cranks and wide bars. Jack

 

[JonB]

philsummers wrote: Jon,
Yes, but after running a tail fairing on the Bone and not being able to tell any difference I just hate to cobble up a pretty bike to make it go a small percentage faster. Having said that, I may think about rigging up my carbon GRR fairing just to see how it might work.
What do you think?

I see your point. It might be lots of work with little gain. There are some others that experimented with a tail fairing. Search for the posts and ask them for their results.