I never look back, darling. It distracts from the now, A V20c design journal

[ratz]

Ok, Ladies and Gentlemen, it's time for some fun.......

Coming soon to a forum near you after a 7-year hiatus, I will hopefully make your self-build self-optimization options a tad bit easier. It's Time...... I am going to build the 2023 version of Marteau 2.0 on the V20c platform.

When I complete this project, we'll have a build diary worthy of what @Eric Winn and @Ivan Liew started when they inspired me to get a Silvio with no clue what I was getting into. There will be plenty of pictures to hold the standard set by @Charles.Plager, and we'll use many of the innovations inspired by Jason @RojoRacing I promise to have something in there that will make @LarryOz need more room in the museum, and @trplay wonder if a v20c would be a faster zwift bike. I can promise that the rubber mallet will make an appearance, so maybe @super slim will de-cloak to comment on it. I still need to work out all the details, but for sure, A Q-ring will be involved so that @DavidCH can find some tangents to post photos on. On it will go, and if we need a clever shim to solve the unsolvable, we have @Doug Burton to bail us out.

Ok, so what can you expect?

There will be three threads running.
1) This thread here is going to discuss components selected for my build and the alternatives for either "opinion" or "goal". This will be the debate and discussion area. If you are on the fence about a component, I hope this will answer your questions for you. For example, if you are considering new wheels, don't buy anything from the three-letter company with low-cost wheels just yet or I might make you frustrated.

2) The Main build thread will be the photo diary of the build as I go through the process. That will be here on this forum, which will be a locked thread until it's done the same as last time to prevent tangent from confusing the flow. A link to this thread will be in each post to direct people back here for questions, comments and discussion.

3) Over on Bentrider, I'll post a mirror photo diary for those who don't frequent here as often. I have to check with Kurt now that he's managing over there to make sure what some will see as a blatant commercial from the MBB dark side is cool with him. Since he's got a V20 I suspect we have an in with management.

So Here's the Topology:

3 Bike Designs
1) The Climber - AKA the mountain goat
2) The All-a-Rounder - AKA the Ragbri Racer
3) The Time-Trialist - AKA the flat lander

I will build the All-a-Rounder but provide recommended alterations for the other two.

I will maintain a bill-of-materials (bom.xls) attached to this first post with the parts for each build I select. I will include a substitution tab to hold items hotly debated by the community. For example, if you Love Shimano gearset xx, then make your case; give me the product codes, specs, and links to someplace with the parts, and I'll add them.

Design Philosophy - Use Modern, Use Available, and Allocate Funds where they matter example (1) The frame, (2) The Wheels, (3) The comfort, (4) The speed, (5) The safety, (6) The easy to ship the bike to a race.

Sneak Peaks:
1) The All-a-Rounder is going to take inspiration from the Tour de France this year and will be a Digital 1x12,
2) The All-a-Rounder is going to wear 60mm
3) I'll likely be liquidating parts from the workshop to help fund this, so even if you aren't ready to build a V20c you might able to upgrade your quick-release generation gear; or when someone decides to get on the V20c bandwagon you can upgrade the sweat V20 you score from them with the stuff I shed.

The Wheels have been ordered; my research there is done; sharing that research and discussion will be the next post.

I missed y'all it's good to be back.

 

[cpml123]

1) The All-a-Rounder is going to take inspiration from the Tour de France this year and will be a Digital 1x12

1x12 electronic! Are you going to pair the Sram road AXS brifters with the Eagle AXS RD (10-52)?!

 

[ratz]

I just finished the analysis spreadsheet tonight of cassettes and rings. That Eagle is one of the high-cost alternatives. I am focusing on the best-price components that you can actually get so build allows for good wheel funding. The article on the wheel process is next probably tomorrow; the gearing will be released after that. So stay tuned. I'll be curious what gearing options people suggest to improve on what I've created

 

[ratz]

Ok, First Installment.....

Selecting Wheels for the Project

So it turns out that the wheels have moved a lot since the last time I did my design work on the v20. The good news is the industry is catching up with what we figured out in 2017. Bigger tires roll faster and smoother, and tubeless need to improve a lot for ordinary people to use them. Nice of them to catch up. Not so nice of them to abandon a lot of tech if you want the new go-fast stuff. QR dead, Rim Brakes Dead, Hooked Rim's marginalized, HyperGlide on the way out. Oh, my, so much to learn.

But wait, I'm jumping ahead. First, let's review our design goal. Since this is the first installment, we should cover it and the primary goals as we go.

Goal design three bike versions that control cost but scale up and down with the same general parts families so that people can build on this and make it as accessible to as wide an audience as possible.

My order of priority is Frame, Wheels (ride quality, speed, safety), Power Transfer, Control, Comfort, and Fun stuff.

Wheel Objective 1: We need wheels for three bike designs for going uphill, going fast on the flat, and doing both. So need one of 3 solutions. (1) A wheel from a family of wheels that cover the spectrum, (2) A single wheel to rule them and in the darkness, not pinch flat. (3) A Different wheel brand for each need.

1. Up Hill; weight is key; going up means going down, so brake matters, and we are all disc apparently, so spoke count matters for good braking
2. Rolling Hills means aero, weight, and brakes but also crosswinds; nothing like catching a gust going downhill when you clear the tree line.
3. TT trialing; need aero; need smooth; Need the speed.

Wheel Objective 2: Safety. If you have ever had a blown a front wheel at speed on a Cruzbike Racer, then you know it's a bad time if the wheel comes off the rim; we might not get neck damage or a broken collar bone like a DF, but the road rash on the hip will side line us for a month.

Wheel Objective 3: Tubeless or Tubes need to work so everyone can use the solution

Wheel Objective 4: Lateral price movement; have a <2k wheel solution but with a High-End version available for extra gain

Ok so with that in hand and A lot of baggag..... err, experience in failin.... err cutting edge tubeless tires, I set out to get caught up.

Source consulted:
intheknowcycling.com
bikeradar.com
GCN and GTN youtube videos
Tour de france selections
Interviews with Josh from Silca (The man basically created ZIPP so you have to believe him)
Cycling Weekly

I enjoy seeing the "Bro" science dying off; why was it so hard for people to learn that you have to put stuff on the road and measure to know the truth.

So here are the auxiliary things we know.

1. The Rule of 105 is still true, especially in a wind tunnel (wheel surface should be 5% wider than the inflated tire)
2. On the road, you can get away with one tire size too big (violating 105) since Yaw angles are all over the place and rolling resistance gains offset the losses. The manufacturers are embracing this idea. Unfortunately that appears to get around being late to release wider wheel (that's fine) or to cover up that they have suspect aero design (eww that's double bad)
3. Our Time trial bike will need to adhere to the rule of 105 so we need to be able to drop a tire size With ease on our chosen wheel.

Cutting to the quick on one topic we also need tires to put on the wheel here are the options

Pirelli - expense - we'll pass but they are probably the best
Victoria - stupid fast but fragile, only on the TT bike and only on Race day
Schwalbe - Old reliable but hard to get mounted and hard to field fix
Michelin - Impossible to find in the US
Continental - The winner; the GP 5000 tubeless like the GP4000 before it was late to the game; and iPhoned everyone

Back to the Wheels So let's rule out some brands to make it simpler.

1. Enve - I love their wheels. We can't use them because the drive wheel is bigger than the non-drive wheel, and they only sell them in matched sets. If there is no budget restriction, we could buy a couple of sets of different sizes, get something to work, and sell the extra wheels, thats too much work. We also don't have the budget to have wheelbuilder.com make a custom set by swapping the hubs around. The Enve 65 that's the solve right,. Nope, they are also Hookless, but not with the issues Zipp has (see below), but it is still a safety issue, and no inner tubes ever.

2. Roval - Same problem as Enve; the drive wheel is bigger, but worse, the drive wheel has special vortexing that assumes it's the back wheel in the wash of the front wheel. Again sold in pairs

3. Zipp Firecrest / NSW beautiful wheel hit all of our objectives but the two important ones. The wheel is hookless, which leads to 3 problems (1) They are not rated for tire pressure high enough to accommodate big people 75psi max (2) Continental only certifies a small subset of tires for these wheels (3) Hookless is a nonstarter for safety; if the tire goes flat and the sealant is old, or the impact is hard the tire is going to come off the rim, and that's not acceptable on a front wheel drive bike. The pro riders learned that on the cobbles this year. We'll stick to hooked rims, and I'm going to recommend inserts on the front wheel for safety now that inserts have evolved and weigh nothing. If you are crazy and don't care, then the Zipp 404 is the winning wheel and the 454NSW for no expense spared, and you have the 303 and 808 for the other design. Oh well, maybe they will fix the wheel tire interface next-gen.

4. Bontrager, Shimano - out of budget and as always out of stock

5. Ali Express wheels, ya sorry, nope

6. Hunt and Scribe - look solid but are hard to source for a lot of people

7. FLO, what took so long, you ask?. Well, I am not sure I can recommend their current generation of wheels. At the Gen 2 stage. All their old stuff competed well with everything else. The old FLO30,60,90 all performed well, but the new stuff has come up looking bad in some aero studies (there is one in particular I'm sure you can find it), and no one mainstream is recommending them. Until that clears up, I'm going to recommend caution. The tri-athletes still love them, but that's the go-fast on TT bike in a straight line on the mostly fast ground crowd, and it's dominated by Bro science. My old FLo90's still hold all my speed records, but I'm not sure I buy the story around the new 77's. Time will tell

8. Reynolds; when I started the project they were still shipping Gen 3 wheels, and I was ok with that, my Gen 2's have always been outstanding (they invented the carbon wheel so one would hope so) but I was hoping for better. As luck has it, they just released a Gen 4 with hooked rims, and they are shipping already.
hayesbicycle.com/collections/reynolds-road-landing

So these are going to be the project wheels because:
(a) Two Sizes 46 and 60,
(b) Two Performance Tiers, Pro and Expert the Expert Level is on a budget $1900 and the Pro level gets all the bling for $400 more.
(c) Hooked Rim
(d) No Problems caused by a special size or tech drive wheel
(e) Ship with a XD and 12 spd Shimano hubs
(f) Tape, values and wheel bags included
(g) Aero jack covers work on the non drive wheel
(h) GP 5000; 700x32 will work and be just over the 105 rules
(i) GP 5000; 700x28 will be under the 105 rule for max aero needs
(j) 60's are light enough for most climbing
(k) if you own both the 46 and 60's you can run a small front and big rear combo
(l) history tells me that tubless tires stay on the reynolds rim when they go flat (tested old rims with Victoria, Conti, and Schwable)
(m) the complaints in the reviews I read for Gen 3 should be Address by the Features added ot the Gen4

The wheels have been ordered and will be here shortly....

I looked at a ton more than I can type up here. If you have a wheel I'm overlooking please comment and we can look at its pros and cons.

Reminder your Gen 2 and Gen 3 wheels might be great (my gen 2 still are and I'll continue to ride them) ; I'm focusing on Gen 4, Tubeless/Clincher combos, with Center Lock Disc brakes. The wheels also need to check the box on big tires size, true aero 105 when needed for the TT config, and safety safety safety; I'm not ready to ride hookless, I blew a tire off a Gen 1 Bontrager as 27mph once was enough. Right now in my mind Gen2 and Gen4 hooked rims appear to be the best of the best for our needs Avoid Gen 1 and Avoid Hookless.

FootNote: we are going to use Inserts and I will explain that during the build

 

[Flying Dutchman]

I would be very interested in seeing the latest gen Shimano Di2 semi-wireless being used. The way they hide the FD/RD battery/controller in the seatpost assumes a DF, could that go in the boom?
With the latest gen Di2 also comes my other wishlist item, hydraulic disks. I guess some of the latest builds might already have this covered, but just like to throw it in And of course in most modern bikes, all cables are hidden ....

 

[ratz]

Ok, the next installment is to pick the correct Bottom Bracket;, but before we can do that we need a crank that works in a 1x configuration.
and before that we need to understand if there's a 1x configuration that will able to meet all three needs (Climber, All a rounder, and TT) , so we have to work backwards starting with the Cassette, and ring size, then we can pick a crank and then we know what BB nuance to get.

So here's the Cassette analysis.

Our reference set up a 52-compact double. So 52/36 rings and a 11-32T Cassette we need to recreate that gearing range or best it if possible.

The cassettes I'm looking at are SRAMs XPLR and Eagle units and one from Helix
XPLR PG-1231 11-44T
CS-XG-1295-A3 10-50T
CS-XG-1251-D1 10-44T
Cs-XG-1271-D1 10-44T
CS-PG-1230-A1 11-50T
HELIX RACE 12-SPEED 9-45T

The Gear inches table for these cassettes with Rings ranging from 44-54 is as follows



The Red highlight show where the gearing has less range compared to the extreme end of the reference gearing from the double, and the Green shows where the gearing has more range. Reviewing the data, it becomes clear that the front chain ring will best be done by a 48T for most configurations and the TT bike can go bigger as needed relative to the strength of the rider

So filtering on the the 48 chain ring we get:


Now it's clear that the 48T has better climbing gear in all cases here than the 2x12 setup. So 48 is the sweet spot. But when the smallest cog is an 11T we give up some top-end (downhill for most of us not named Larry, Jason, or Jim) speed. So we can further focus on the 10T options


Ok so 4 cassettes with the 48T will outperform our baseline 2x11. TT Riders can go up to 50, 52, (I have a 60 in the garage) and get more speed. Mountain goats can go down to 44 or lower for crazy climbing and still have more top end than our reference road 2x configuration.

The Eagle is $415 and requires the much more expensive Eagle derailleur so that is relegated to the high-end option. The two options from the APEX lineup are at good, coming in at prices of $158 and $222. So the $158 unit is our baseline for this build, it's a solid option for anyone on a budget. I like that.

However, I will upgrade to the Helix on the actual build because I like the spacing better. The consistent 2-tooth spacing from 9-19 should make for a reliable cadence at speed when shifting. (I sought it out for that reason) This unit gets some of the advantages of the Eagle cassette but doesn't require the Eagle components prices saving around $900 and while providing the range. The Helix is compatible with the APEX lineup from SRAM (more on that later) and is a drop-in substitute for the 10-44T cassette

Here are the speed graphs for those that don't understand gear inches





Next up is to pick the 48T crankset, and then we can pick the BB to use and finalize the list for the gearing stack. I have my BB guy working on the research now for low medium and high options. That's looking good too. When we get the BB Selected I'll compile the Bill of materials with sources and alternatives.

Next installment is this weekend. I would like to know what Cassette people might know of that are better than the above; cause it's not final until it's ordered

 

[ratz]

1x12 electronic! Are you going to pair the Sram road AXS brifters with the Eagle AXS RD (10-52)?!

9-45 greater gear inches, cheaper, and lighter

 

[ratz]

Installment #4: Cranky about Cranks or here comes another Another Eye Chart

Ok, now that we have our cassette tables, we can start thinking about cranks and rings. This topic is shorter than the others but no less annoying. Why you ask? Here's a list out the items so you can understand the current situation.

1. We are using a 1x drive train, and those began life as mountain bike parts
2. Mountain bikes use significantly lower gearing, aka small chainrings
3. SRAM is getting cute with its Chains, Cassettes, and rings
4. We do love our Q-rings
5. We also love our short cranks, and like wide tires, we are again way ahead of the industry, bro science
6. 1x for the road is still new and gaining momentum
7. 48 / 46 chainrings are optimal for our project, and those are Road size chain rings, ruling out a lot of MTB parts
8, The industry has a bad case of shimanoitis with all the new ring-to-crank attachment methods.

So what does that mean for our build options? Simple, we have fewer options for a good solution.

Here are the main choices.

1. If building on a tight budget you can just google Fixie cranks; fortunately, the 48T is a go-to in that crowd, and there are tons of 80$ cranks
2. If you are on a budget, like round rings, and like cranks 165m or longer, you can use SRAM's low-cost option
3. If you like round rings and cranks 165 or longer and you want the bling, you can go with SRAM Force or RED and SRAM's official flat top chains
4. For all SRAM options, you can get into Ovals vi carbon black and wolf components, which make some compatible 1x rings, but you will be limited to 44T or 46T, depending on the products. (If you look at the gear table, that's not as bad as you think. Depending on the application, 46T and 44T will be very good gearing.) If you want Rotor QXL you will need to use a ring built for 2x as a singleton.

If you like short cranks, ovals, and lightweight options; then the crank of choice is one of the 3 Rotor offerings



I'll break it down real simple here. Rotor is our friend because:
1. Cranks are available in lengths from 150mm-175mm
2. They are keeping the weight way down on Aluminum and Carbon products
3. Their Oval 1x ring is a singleton that is aligned in the center of where two rings would be
4. They provide an offset axel that will push the ring to the right giving it an optimal position on a 1x
5. If you buy the crank and ring together, you get the ring for 50% off.
6. They make a T4730 BB that is only $70 for steel and $200 for ceramic
7. The rings are nearly infinitely adjustable if you get the DM models.
8. Rotor invented the Alhdu system in 2017, and unlike SRAM, they have built it out rather than changing it yearly (I have two spindles in the garage I found last night that I can use for this project they have been a stable item for since 2017, just like the good old days)
9. They have all the ring sizes
10. They have inventory !!!!

I have the Rotors 3D+ on several bikes; they are rock solid and unbelievably light. I have confirmed that the 150 aluminum version is the same weight as the 155mm carbon version. So if you need that extra 5mm, you won't be weight penalized. I prefer aluminum for durability.

Conclusion:

(a) On a budget: Get the Rival 1 Wide and a 46T round ring parts page: https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/cr-riv-107-d1 very hard to locate, so I did it for you; the total cost will be about $300. As long as 160mm or longer cranks is good for you

(b) You can add Qrings to the Rival with: https://rotoramerica.com/products/107x4-oval-chainrings-for-sram-axs and discard the small ring.
That's $217 for the ring set and $100 less for not getting the round ring for a total of $417.

(c) If you can handle 165mm cranks and you like ovals, skip the Rival and get the Vegast DM for $420.
The complete package is just more rock solid.

(d) Need 150mm cranks. The Rotor 3d+ will cost you: $600 for the crank, axle, ring, and BB.
All the Rotor Aldhu line is interchangeable; want those 160mm carbon cranks in the future
you can just get the arms and upgrade your 3D+ to an Aldhu carbon. *Poof*

On the TT configuration, pick one of 2 choices
https]sd://rotoramerica.com/collections/road-cranks/products/aldhu-3d-spider-mount-crankset-builder[/URL]
https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/cr-xsnc-dm-d1 on a Forece or RED Crank.

 

[xtalbike]

Saw the wheel discussion too late but I replaced the used Bontrager 54s wheels I was using on my V20c with Reserve 35s with DT Swiss hubs. They've been great. Normal hooked rim. Haven't tried tubeless yet. Weight is excellent and aero seems to be good enough for me to have hit 53 mph going down a long well paved hill last Sunday. They feel more stable at speed than the ones they replaced. I was surprised to see that they sponsor Jumbo Visma so they were on the TdF winner this year (which probably makes them more expensive than they need to be but they're not out of line with other major brands). Definitely worth consideration.

 

[ratz]

Saw the wheel discussion too late but I replaced the used Bontrager 54s wheels I was using on my V20c with Reserve 35s with DT Swiss hubs. They've been great. Normal hooked rim. Haven't tried tubeless yet. Weight is excellent and aero seems to be good enough for me to have hit 53 mph going down a long well paved hill last Sunday. They feel more stable at speed than the ones they replaced. I was surprised to see that they sponsor Jumbo Visma so they were on the TdF winner this year (which probably makes them more expensive than they need to be but they're not out of line with other major brands). Definitely worth consideration.

Get me the link to them please

 

[Frito Bandito]

Not wanting to go tubular I found a new set of 2013 Mavic CXR 60C (clinchers) that are quite aero. Not sure how they stack up against modern wheels, but they were banned by the UCI so I ABSOLUTELY HAD to get them. They came with OEM 23mm tires, but I've got tubed 25mm Conti GP 5000 tires on them now which at the least has less rolling resistance than the OEM 23mm tires, but might be a bit slower aerodynamically because of the 2mm wider tires. They are 5 watts faster than Enve 7/8s and 4 watts faster than 2017 Zipp 808s and FFWD F9s. I bought a pair of GP 5000 TL (true tubeless) which have even lower rolling resistance than the OEM tires, and I will replace the rim tape, and try to get them on when my tubed tires need replacing. The clincher version has aluminum brake tracks that require special brake pads because it is textured. Anyway, these will be my race day wheels and what a set they will be if I can get the 25mm GP 5000 TL tires on them.
Anyway, here is an list of fast wheels at least up until 2019...

 

[ratz]

I bought a pair of GP 5000 TL (true tubeless) which have even lower rolling resistance than the OEM tires, and I will replace the rim tape, and try to get them on when my tubed tires need replacing. The clincher version has aluminum brake tracks that require special brake pads because it is textured. Anyway, these will be my race day wheels and what a set they will be if I can get the 25mm GP 5000 TL tires on them.

Stay tuned on the Tubeless front; I'm going to share some new stuff that's making it a lot easier to maintain, and we are going to want to know what the 105 check is on them given their age.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Sounds good Ratz. From what I recall, the 23mms were 2 watts faster aerodynamically than their OEM 25mms of the same tire, but I remember reading something about the tread pattern being 1 of the important overall factors. What made them UCI illegal was the "blades" that smoothed out the airflow in the transition between the rims and the tires. Here are the specs for them, and a pic to show the blades and brake track.

 

[xtalbike]

Reserve 35|35 - All Day Road Bike Wheelset

The Reserve 35|35 is your ultra-reliable training partner, your KOM-grabber, and your week in, week out workhorse wheelset. Deep enough to offer aerodynamic advantages but still shallow enough for predictable handling on blustery spring days, it truly is one of Reserve's most versatile...

reservewheels.com

Get me the link to them please

 

[ratz]

Reserve 35|35 - All Day Road Bike Wheelset

The Reserve 35|35 is your ultra-reliable training partner, your KOM-grabber, and your week in, week out workhorse wheelset. Deep enough to offer aerodynamic advantages but still shallow enough for predictable handling on blustery spring days, it truly is one of Reserve's most versatile...

reservewheels.com

That is a nice-looking wheel. As near as I can tell, they've gone the way of Enve and now only sell the dual-size large rear and small front. So to be accessible to use as a group, people would have to partner up with someone like wheelbuilder.com or someone that can lace carbon wheels so they can reverse them for use I'll add the to the cool but excluded list; let me know if I'm misreading their website.

 

[xtalbike]

That is a nice-looking wheel. As near as I can tell, they've gone the way of Enve and now only sell the dual-size large rear and small front. So to be accessible to use as a group, people would have to partner up with someone like wheelbuilder.com or someone that can lace carbon wheels so they can reverse them for use I'll add the to the cool but excluded list; let me know if I'm misreading their website.

I was able to buy a pair of 35s. I bet one could call and get a special order.

 

[ratz]

Ok, Time for my favorite topic.

When you build a race bike, and I mean a race bike, you build it from the ground up; the Tire you want to run; then the wheels; then the bottom bracket bearing, then the frame, and then the bracket that has the desired bearing that fits your frame; then you do gearing, cranks, handlebars, and last braking controls in that order because the last thing we care about is stopping a road bike.

When you build a bike for an Age Grouper, you do the same because we are heavy and slower with actual lives, and Age Grouper means you still see yourself as a racer...... You know you do; tell me you don't see the bike in front of you, and the lizard brain goes, "Go get'em."

Botton Brackets.....

If you are truly buying a V20c, to go slow, and you won't mash the pedals buy the Cheap T47 internal cup bottom brackets. You can get the ones that come from Rotor with the Cranks above. If you go with the SRAM ones, find the cheap DUB style; stay in the steel bearings in all cases, etc. If you get fixie cranks, get a T47 that is compatible which will probably be a 24mm GXP or side load-compatible Shimano style.

WAIT!!!!!!!! You know what, just don't don't do it. I am not giving you any links to those because I like y'all too much.

You're all rabbit chasers, or heavier than you like hill climbers who still insist on hill climbing, you want the watts from the BB to transfer, and you want your cranks to spin when you blow on them when the chain is off. I'm serious here. Those RAAM team golden bikes from the relay they did just that. To get that, you need a BB that's up to the task, and because we are a moving BB bike, aggressive pedals are just like throwing a DF side to side between your thighs to get powerful bursts, but we do it every ride and far more often just by pedaling out of turns. Because of that, I will always recommend you wait to buy your frame kit until after you have purchased your Sided Loaded Angular Contact Bottom Bracket.....

Your crankset, cool chain, and lovely shifters aren't worth the coin unless the BB is up to pair......

So I contacted a friend of Cruzbike racers, Chris Streeter, at RealWorld Cycling to see what he has. Unfortunately, they are not carrying T47 series products yet. When they do, please support him and his company. They have saved CB riders a ton of time over the years in our quest for speed, and they sponsored parts for the RAMM relay team. Despite not having them in the house, Chris found us a source and saved me all the hunting.

Drumm Roll, please......

Ok, you non-racers, get these:

Angular stainless steel: $149

Shimano 24MM:

BKS-0246 - T47 Internal-Threaded, stainless steel, Angular Contact Bearing Bottom Bracket for 86mm Shell, T47 Framesets and Shimano 24mm Cranksets

BKS-0246 - T47-Internal, Threaded, stainless steel, Angular Contact Bearing Bottom Bracket for 86mm Shell, T47 Framesets and Shimano 24mm Cranksets Angular Contact stainless steel bearings pressed into precision machined aluminum T47 cups that simply thread directly into the BB shell. All Enduro...

cycling.endurobearings.com

SRAM DUB:

BKS-0249 - T47-Internal, Threaded, stainless steel, Angular Contact Bearing Bottom Bracket for 86mm Shell, T47 Framesets and SRAM DUB Cranksets

BKS-0249 - T47-Internal, Threaded, stainless steel, Angular Contact Bearing Bottom Bracket for 86mm Shell, T47 Framesets and SRAM DUB Cranksets Angular Contact stainless steel bearings pressed into precision machined aluminum T47 cups that simply thread directly into the BB shell. All Enduro...

cycling.endurobearings.com

SRAM DUB 29MM:

BKC-0799 - T47-Internal, Threaded, Ceramic Hybrid, XD-15, Angular Contact Bearing, Bottom Bracket for T47 Framesets and SRAM DUB 29mm Cranksets

BKC-0799 - T47-Internal, Threaded, Ceramic Hybrid, XD15, Angular Contact Bearing, Bottom Bracket for T47 Framesets and SRAM DUB 29mm Cranksets. An Enduro Bearings exclusive, our XD15 Pro BBs feature XD15 15 degree Angular Contact cartridge bearings pressed into precision machined aluminum T47...

cycling.endurobearings.com

ROTOR 30MM:

BKS-0241 - T47-Internal, Threaded, stainless steel, Angular Contact Bearing Bottom Bracket for 86mm Shell, T47 Framesets and 30mm Cranksets (spindle length 104mm or longer)

BKS-0241 - T47-Internal, Threaded, stainless steel, Angular Contact Bearing Bottom Bracket for 86mm Shell, T47 Framesets and 30mm Cranksets (spindle length 104mm or longer) Angular Contact stainless steel bearings pressed into precision machined aluminum T47 cups that simply thread directly into...

cycling.endurobearings.com

Randy Racer, you want these:

Ceramic Hybrids: $299

SHIMANO 24MM:

BKS-0246 - T47 Internal-Threaded, stainless steel, Angular Contact Bearing Bottom Bracket for 86mm Shell, T47 Framesets and Shimano 24mm Cranksets

BKS-0246 - T47-Internal, Threaded, stainless steel, Angular Contact Bearing Bottom Bracket for 86mm Shell, T47 Framesets and Shimano 24mm Cranksets Angular Contact stainless steel bearings pressed into precision machined aluminum T47 cups that simply thread directly into the BB shell. All Enduro...

cycling.endurobearings.com

SRAM DUB:

BKS-0249 - T47-Internal, Threaded, stainless steel, Angular Contact Bearing Bottom Bracket for 86mm Shell, T47 Framesets and SRAM DUB Cranksets

BKS-0249 - T47-Internal, Threaded, stainless steel, Angular Contact Bearing Bottom Bracket for 86mm Shell, T47 Framesets and SRAM DUB Cranksets Angular Contact stainless steel bearings pressed into precision machined aluminum T47 cups that simply thread directly into the BB shell. All Enduro...

cycling.endurobearings.com

SRAM DUB 29mm:

BKC-0799 - T47-Internal, Threaded, Ceramic Hybrid, XD-15, Angular Contact Bearing, Bottom Bracket for T47 Framesets and SRAM DUB 29mm Cranksets

BKC-0799 - T47-Internal, Threaded, Ceramic Hybrid, XD15, Angular Contact Bearing, Bottom Bracket for T47 Framesets and SRAM DUB 29mm Cranksets. An Enduro Bearings exclusive, our XD15 Pro BBs feature XD15 15 degree Angular Contact cartridge bearings pressed into precision machined aluminum T47...

cycling.endurobearings.com

ROTOR 30MM: Ceramic Hybrid: $299

BKC-0791- T47-Internal, Threaded, Ceramic Hybrid, XD-15, Angular Contact Bearing, Bottom Bracket for T47 Framesets and BB386 30mm Cranksets

BKC-0791 - T47-Internal, Threaded-Threaded, Ceramic Hybrid, XD15, Angular Contact Bearing, Bottom Bracket for T47 Framesets and BB386 30mm Cranksets. An Enduro Bearings exclusive, our XD15 Pro BBs feature XD15 15 degree Angular Contact cartridge bearings pressed into precision machined aluminum...

cycling.endurobearings.com

That's it for today doesn't pass go; you want these, and it will bug you in the back of your brain every time you ride if you don't have them and you look at your feet. To all of you who already custom-built V20C and don't have these. I'm sorry for telling you late; I didn't mean to be gone so long. Go order your upgrade today.

Yes, I ordered mine Ceramic one for the project today, and yes, I have these on my T50, albeit stainless steel 24mm in that case for Sram gxp.

Are we having fun yet? I live by the 3 Laws.

 

[ratz]

I was able to buy a pair of 35s. I bet one could call and get a special order.

That would be worth testing. Enve said no when I asked for RAAM because it creates an unbalanced inventory. Apparently, they warranty in "pairs" for the same reason.

 

[3bs]

skipping the inventory of wheels i have, my go tos are still renyolds, but earlier this year i got a set of ican aeros for my gravel experiement. they are really good.

 

[ratz]

Now it's clear that the 48T.......

View attachment 15195
Ok so 4 cassettes with the 48T will outperform our baseline 2x11. .......

The Eagle is $415 and requires the much more expensive Eagle derailleur so that is relegated to the high-end option. The two options from the APEX lineup are at good, coming in at prices of $158 and $222. So the $158 unit is our baseline for this build, it's a solid option for anyone on a budget. I like that.

However, I will upgrade to the Helix on the actual build because I like the spacing better. The consistent 2-tooth spacing from 9-19 should make for a reliable cadence at speed when shifting. (I sought it out for that reason) This unit gets some of the advantages of the Eagle cassette but doesn't require the Eagle components prices saving around $900 and while providing the range. The Helix is compatible with the APEX lineup from SRAM (more on that later) and is a drop-in substitute for the 10-44T cassette

Plan revision. I exchanged some info with Jim Parker today that made me stop and go back and look at the 10-50 stuff despite it's pricing. I've come around to now agree with Jim that the 44/46 Rings give more options.

So after doing some research, I determine that HELIX has a 9-50T Cassette that is 100% compatible with SRAM's "drivetrain" tech which will become important in the next post. So I'm opting to make the 46 the primary ring and a HELIX 9-50T the bench mark cassette for this project. I'll still be able to test the 10-45T XPLR and some other options. At the least I'll mount the various combination and take them out on the road for sweet spot testing of velocity at cadence.

Here's the updated optimal chart. I'll update the speed graphs this weekend that's tedious to do and time-consuming. If someone else wants to do it to help me out, then run over to Mike shermans gear calculate and do speed graphs for the key rings in this table with the various cassette; using 65-85 as the RPM, good news is you can do two rings in the same graph as in this second image for just this HELIX 9-50T. Note: I noticed just now that I did all the calcs on a 19mm wheel (hello 15 years ago) when I updated and spot check 28/32mm everything got better in our favor; so yeah not updating the documentation to fix that. Not worth the time. In short bigger wheel equal less hill climbing torque; so moving toward 44/46 is even more justified.





And then a quick note on why HELIX
1. Cheaper than Eagle 329 vs 415
2. 100% compatible with SRAM's new "DriveTrain" Technology
3. The last two cogs can be swapped for different sizes maxing out at 45, 50, and 52T for only $159 which means lower cost to have multiple gearing stacks and a low-cost way to correct a design flaw.
4. Lighter than all the others I saw.

As for the 44T, and 46T you still have Ovality at those sized and the weight up front on the triangle continues to go down which is also a big part of this project.

So the HELIX 9-50T is on order.....

Now I was going to post on the drive train tonight; could be a few days now. So if you want to know what's coming up and why it's so cool for what we are doing go check this excellent explainer out: