Improving Descending, Stopping, and Tight Turns on S40

[MNBentRider]

Greetings! I'm so excited - the weather has warmed up this week in Minnesota and I have been getting some rides in on my S40. It is such a pleasure to be back on the bike again! The weather will turn cold again next week, but for now I am enjoying the respite from winter.

These rides have got me thinking about goals for this year. My S40 was new to me last June, and I put on about 4,000 miles last year. Mostly I rode for fun last year, and didn't work much on skills. Certainly I've got the basics down, but I'd really like to improve in 3 areas:

1) Descending. Where I typically ride, we don't have any real hills. Most of you would probably call these "bumps" and not hills. Even so, I struggle mentally to go down almost any incline. I often ride my brakes, and my partner jokes that I go faster up hills than down them. (I just looked at the stats for my last ride, and he may not be wrong - oof!) My goal is to teach my brain to relax and allow my body to keep pedaling.

2) Fast stops. This is related to #1. Part of the reason why I'm nervous is that I'm convinced that if I am going faster and I need to stop quickly, I am likely going to lose control of the bike. I feel this mostly acutely when descending, but also even on the flats. My theory is that if I practice this regularly, I will gain skill and that confidence will follow.

3) Tight turns. I'm slowing way down for many turns, especially the tighter ones. I also often sit up and unclip for turns. Time to work on this.

For that last item, I think I probably need some time in a parking lot doing some turning drills. But I'm open to suggestions for ways I can improve my skills in these areas.

Thanks, and happy riding!

 

[chicorider]

Glad to hear you're having some decent riding weather. The good stuff is coming.

Fast stops and tight turns improve with practice and time on the bike, as you suggest. Some of it is also situational. Not all fast stops and tight turns are the same, and they come with varying amounts of warning. Parking lot drills are good, but that's a controlled environment. The open road is harder to predict, so you almost have to just accept it and let things play out while assuming that all will be fine. I have noticed that the more anxious and tense I am on my V20c, the worse I ride. I'm not saying "just relax," which is right up there with "calm down," but making the mental decision to try to relax can help. When things do go awry, I make sure to learn from it and adjust my approach. After overcooking a downhill turn on iffy-quality pavement and washing out the front end, I now give downhill turns a little more respect, especially when the pavement is chattery. After passing cars on the right to catch a green light, and a car suddenly turned right in front of me without signaling, I no longer pass cars on the right, even if it means missing an otherwise catchable green light, dang-it! After wiping out at full speed on uneven pavement under construction, I now take it easier through construction zones, or alter my route. And since nearly being car-doored at full speed, I have kept my line further out from parked cars (another thing I learned from that incident, which happened when I was still fairly new to the V20, was that I maneuvered around that door with no time to think. No time to slow down. My body just did it reflexively. That was the day I realized I was all the way through the learning curve).

Descending with less fear is another beast. I have cracked 60mph a couple times, and regularly hit the 50s. It isn't until after that I sometimes think about how much trust I am putting in the bike, and I try not to think about what could have happened at 50+mph (a tire blowout, a poorly timed squirrel, a car pulling out in front of me...). These worst cases can happen on any bike, so I try not to believe that the Cruzbike is somehow more prone to descending mishaps. These bikes do handle quite well at speed, and they flow better when the body is relaxed. Again, I understand that that can be easier said than done. And again, downhill speed can also be situational. The descent is twisty? I'll ease up a bit. The road surface is chattery or inconsistent? Same. Car traffic is on the heavy side? I will ride the downhill as if I was another car, even though I could go faster. But when the descent is at least fairly smooth, not too twisty, and traffic is light, I put my trust in the bike and let it rip. I won't claim that this is the smart choice (it isn't), but I rarely feel like I'm asking the bike to do more than it can handle. If I were wanting to work on descending with less fear, I would face it head-on, just not all at once. Go to a downhill that you are familiar with that is smooth enough, straight enough, and with light enough traffic, but that you also tend to ride with the brakes, even though it seems like you shouldn't have to. Do downhill repeats, working on using the brakes less and carrying more speed each time, until, eventually, you are able to make it down without brakes. It might take three runs and one day, or a dozen runs over a few days. Your brain should be able to relax a little more each time, and you'll get plenty of good climbing in. Then, once you've mastered that hill, move on to another that is slightly more challenging and do the same thing.

Two tips for descending on a Cruzbike: first, since the feet are involved in the steering, it can help to keep them turning, even if only lightly, when going downhill. This keeps that part of the steering active rather than passive while coasting. I am comfortable coasting when things are calm, but when descending in crosswinds that want to push the bike, and especially its heavy front end, around, I will keep my feet lightly pedaling to have more control over the bike as my feet and hands work together to steer. And second, a DF rider can create stability through higher speed turns by weighting the outside pedal. You can do the same on a CB by weighting the outside edge of the seatpan with your torso. I will also keep my head level with the road through the turn for better visibility.

All that said, in the end there is nothing wrong with descending inside your comfort zone, whatever that might be. The goal is to enjoy the ride, and while facing mild terror is a thrill for some, for others it can really put a damper on the pleasure of riding. If you really do want to descend better, you can work on it. But if the truth is that you really don't, then don't sweat it and ride your ride. Have an awesome spring.

 

[MNBentRider]

Go to a downhill that you are familiar with that is smooth enough, straight enough, and with light enough traffic, but that you also tend to ride with the brakes, even though it seems like you shouldn't have to. Do downhill repeats, working on using the brakes less and carrying more speed each time, until, eventually, you are able to make it down without brakes. It might take three runs and one day, or a dozen runs over a few days. Your brain should be able to relax a little more each time, and you'll get plenty of good climbing in. Then, once you've mastered that hill, move on to another that is slightly more challenging and do the same thing.

I like this idea a lot. There is a stretch of road not far from here about 1 mile long with roundabouts on either end and a valley in the middle. It can be busier but probably not at times I am riding, and not many cross streets or driveways to worry about. Practicing on this section could help me get comfortable going downhill. I did ride it several times a week last year during July, but I was still new to the bike at that point and I was always nervous. Now that I'm more comfortable on the bike I might be able to train my brain to relax.

since the feet are involved in the steering, it can help to keep them turning, even if only lightly, when going downhill. This keeps that part of the steering active rather than passive while coasting.

Yes, I keep telling myself this, but for some reason my brain cares little for logic when I am at the top of a hill. All I can think is "oh no- scary!" Completely ridiculous. I don't even have a good excuse like a previous crash.

All that said, in the end there is nothing wrong with descending inside your comfort zone, whatever that might be. The goal is to enjoy the ride, and while facing mild terror is a thrill for some, for others it can really put a damper on the pleasure of riding.

True. Riding really fast or racing is not something I'm interested in. BUT I want to be able to ride down a hill faster than 8-12 mph, which is just embarrassing LOL.

Thanks for the encouragement!

 

[danhunt56]

4000 miles are a lot of miles to still feel like a beginner. On my quest lowering the handlebars so I had a clear view forward completely changed my sense of confidence. If your view is obstructed that needs to be dealt with if possible. On the Quest my moto is “when in doubt, sit up”. When I sit up everything becomes like the bikes I grew up with, and I can make extremely tight turns and fast stops. You could try a foam wedge at your upper back to get you in a more upright position, this may calm your nerves. Cruzbike has such a wedge in their catalog. My original recumbent my body suddenly accepted the reclined position when I put a spacer between the seat and the rear strut siting me up by about 3”. You may be having a visceral negative reaction to the reclined position.

Going down hill you need to be in a high enough gear that there is a fair amount of resistance in the pedals, for some reason pedaling a Cruzbike downhill in low gear destabilizes it. Probably because it is hard to pedal smooth and the weight of your flailing legs throws the steering into random and unneeded motions.

Your fear in suddenly stopping also sounds related to a sense that you don’t feel confident you can keep the bike up, do you feel secure leaned back in your seat when stopped. Try sitting up when you come to a stop if so. This again relates to your body balance mechanism rejecting laying down on top of a two wheeled rail as a smart thing to do. Even with a solid footing too much recline can lead you to quickly lose that footing if the bike moves, especially backwards for me. 5 years into riding in that position I can now accomandate the more extreme horizontal angles, but just looking at the V20’s make me remember how easily out of control I felt in the beginning. I am motorized, so aerodynamics is not an issue, comfort and control in a variety of challenging situations is my main goal. I easily make u-turns, and ride off road with my quest. My motorized rear wheel drive recumbents are even easier.

I can’t say I experience steering with my feet as of yet, it is still a coordination effort to get their input and not mess up the steering. But on the road they are in complete sync, it is very fun to descend a hill at 50 to 60 kph pedaling against against resistance, when I pedal out I just coast, but it feels better to pedal. It is like riding a motorcycle, it is as though it is on rails, as they say.

Basically what you say sounds like the bike is not set up to work well for you. Something in the set up is scaring your lizard brain. It is not getting the assurances it needs. Nothing your frontal cortex brain says will make it believe otherwise. You need to feel secure. In my humble opinion.

 

[MNBentRider]

On the Quest my moto is “when in doubt, sit up”. When I sit up everything becomes like the bikes I grew up with, and I can make extremely tight turns and fast stops.

I think my visibility is fine. I do tend to sit up when I slow down or make a tight turn. If I am making a turn onto a new street, I tend to sit up just so I am able to see the cross traffic on the new street as quickly as possible. But also yes it does feel more comfortable and "safe" to sit up on a tight turn. But I think that I could stay reclined more than I am.

My original recumbent my body suddenly accepted the reclined position when I put a spacer between the seat and the rear strut siting me up by about 3”.

Interesting. Before I got my S40, I wondered if I would need the spacer since that would put me at an incline similar to my old recumbent, but I was able to adjust to the angle for regular riding so I never gave it another thought. It didn't occur to me that the angle might be impacting my nerves. Hmmmm...

Your fear in suddenly stopping also sounds related to a sense that you don’t feel confident you can keep the bike up, do you feel secure leaned back in your seat when stopped. Try sitting up when you come to a stop if so.

This is a good point. When I come to a complete stop I always sit up as I do not feel confident leaned back when stopped. The tricky part for me is staying balanced with one foot on the ground while leaning back and the other foot up on the pedal to start. I'm 5'3" and I went with regular 700c wheels which is to be honest close to the edge of being too tall for me. Anyway, practicing staying reclined at stops could be good for me.

Going down hill you need to be in a high enough gear that there is a fair amount of resistance in the pedals, for some reason pedaling a Cruzbike downhill in low gear destabilizes it. Probably because it is hard to pedal smooth and the weight of your flailing legs throws the steering into random and unneeded motions.

My partner has been watching me ride and he reports that if I continue to pedal when riding down hill, I keep a very straight line. I agree that switching to a higher gear so that there is resistance when pedaling downhill does help me feel more confident. This is a newer experience for me; while I used to shift back to a higher gear at the top of hills, I was basically going back to a gear I used on the flats rather than a gear for downhill. This was mainly because on my old recumbent I had thumb shifters and I couldn't easily shift the big ring. With the 1x12 and electronic shifting, this is no longer an issue. I do wonder a little if I need more gear range than what I have so that I have even more resistance on the downhill. Definitely something to think about, but I'll probably want to exhaust all the other possibilities before I make a change as otherwise I am happy with the current gear range.

Basically what you say sounds like the bike is not set up to work well for you. Something in the set up is scaring your lizard brain. It is not getting the assurances it needs. Nothing your frontal cortex brain says will make it believe otherwise. You need to feel secure. In my humble opinion.

Thanks for your response. I really appreciate it, as I've been assuming all of this was just in my head, and not that there might be some legitimate bike configuration issue I need to address. Definitely something I will continue to evaluate.

 

[danhunt56]

Since half my rides are steep down hills for long distances I added a second chainring and derailleur I only shift up for those descents as I was running out of resistance at about 45 kph.

Yes you can adapt to anything. I prefer adapting the machine to me if there is no performance advantage. I find that as comfortable as I am on the Quest that when I hop on one of the rear wheel drives that I have been working a little harder dealing with the movable bottom bracket. The rear wheel driven bikes are now extremely easy to ride even the one with a pretty horizontal position. With your height smaller diameter tires would be one of those configuration improvements that would help keep the lizard brain calm. Taking off on a non motorized recumbent of any type is a skill.