Incredibly Stable Recumbents

[Rick Youngblood]

For the record, I'm fortunate to own a Silvio 2.1 (3500 miles to date) and a Vendetta 2.0 (2200 miles to date). And also might mention, I not an ex-slalom skier like Ratz or Ex-gymnast like Erik or Ultra rider like Larry. I'm just a 58 year old typical bent-dude that loves his Cruzbikes, but have to say I do love my wife more!

Yesterday we (Northern California) had a big storm that came through with lots of rain and high winds, that made the Sacramento River Trail look like a war zone, with tree branches, leaves, and twigs scattered throughout, on top of being slippery and wet for todays ride. Today also had heavy drizzle to boot.

I choose the Silvio for this ride, it was very slow going, as I had to weave and pick my way through the debris that was scattered on the 10 wide trail. Actually almost coming to a stop at times, but not quite while maintaining my balance.

I've got to say that these bikes are extremely stable, and become more so as the miles accumulate.

For me in the beginning (after about 200 miles) I felt pretty confident after 6.5 mph, but under that I would start to weave and could not hold a straight line very well. So I would hit the hills fast and hard and keep my momentum up to at least 6.5 mph to where I felt confident.

That's all pretty much history now. I'm not sure how slow I can currently get down to, but I've been down to 4.5 on a straight line. At this point it will be about how slow will the gearing let me go, and how steep is the hill.

I've owned almost two hand fulls of recumbents in the past three years, including a Tour Easy, which is about the most stable recumbent available. I find that these two Cruzbikes are even more stable. I presume that possibly the reason for this may be because of the MBB, which is requiring the use of your legs to assist steer the bike?!? I don't know for sure, but I'm amazed!

Not only do I find them to be stable at low speeds, but also on fast down hill descents too. And again, of this may not be out of the box, or your first ride - however it was for me.

So far my fastest descent speeds are: Vendetta=48 point something MPH and Silvio 45 point something MPH - both on the same hill. These speeds are very exhilarating and I must and, my knuckles were white for sure. But I felt like I was in good hands and would have taken more, if the hill would have given it.

I love these Cruzbike bikes, and have to say, Once you go MBB-FWD, theres no going Back!

Edit: Forgot to note: The Silvio was equipped with 23mm slicks at 120 lbs of pressure on the above ride - which would be a very unstable tire in the above conditions - glad I was on this bike.

 

[Andrew 1973]

I was wondering how you were

I was wondering how you were handling the weather down there. It sounds like the Silvio was a good choice for riding a debris-riddled path. I recently had to navigate through blockades of tumbleweed and the low speed handling characteristics of the Silvio made it easy to go slow and smoothly.

As for speed, the fastest I've taken my Silvio was a hair over 42 mph and the feeling was exhilarating. At no time did I feel out of control and had I a large enough gear, I would have pedaled hard to squeeze out just a little more speed.

Rick, you said it...there is no going back!

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Hey Andrew, now that you are

Hey Andrew, now that you are relocated up to Washington state, you should be able to find some nice long steep hills - I'm sure Lief and Robert know of some. I'm hoping to break into the 50+ MPH this springs.

Sacramento River looks like the Amazon River, muddy and murky!

 

[LarryOz]

OK Rick _ I guess we'll all

OK Rick _ I guess we'll all have to come forward now...:at least those of us that are married!

I'm just a 58 year old typical bent-dude that loves his Cruzbikes, but have to say I do love my wife more!

Yes, I love my wife more than my Cruzbike(s) too.
She is not given me the ultimatum to choose "her or the bike" yet, at least for now.
Although, since I have been getting up between 4:20am and 5:20am to get my rides in before work, that ultimatum may come. I wish the KICKR did not "whine" so much..
.
Oh yes, since this thread is about stability - I guess I need to say a few words on that:
I also find the Cruzbikes S & V's to be stable. I have not ridden any other recumbents but I don't need to either. Rick, you got me way beat on the max speed. Not sure if I'll even go that fast. My goal is just to be able to maintain a modest 25mph .... and finally: "Although my wife is not a Cruzbike recumbent, I would have say that after 34 years of marriage; she is more stable than a Cruzbike, and I have never thought of trading her in for a newer model or even tried to powdercoat her to a differnet color!" And you can quote me on that one!

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Oh...hey Larry...I thought

Oh...hey Larry...I thought you would have me beat with max speed for sure, you being a speed-junky in all.

Yeah, my wife has very little wear and tear after 35 years of marriage too, I'll keep her and not refurbish either - BTW, she doesn't need it (better make everything clear when you discuss the little lady)!

 

[Charles.Plager]

I've taken my Sofrider 45 MPH

I've taken my Sofrider 45 MPH and my Cruzigami Mantis 40 MPH. Felt extremely stable on both.

I can ride both of my Cruzbikes below 3 mph and often do on big hills. I use my both my bikes to pull kids in trail-a-bikes and I even use my Mantis to pull a trail-a-bike with both kids (that's easily an extra 120 lbs). Don't do big hills with the two of them, but definitely stable bikes once you're used to them.

(I try not to ride with no hand when pulling kids, but I forget sometimes and still do it. I don't think I've done it while pulling both, but definitely when pulling them individually).

 

[Kenneth Jessett]

New Vendetta and OMG!!!

I've just assembled the Vendetta, put it up on the trainer to finish setting up the seat arrangement and then got on it - still on the trainer - just to see how it felt laying prone with my feet up in the air and the handle bars almost sticking into my chest. I have to say, it is going to take an awful leap of faith to take my feet off terra firma and push this machine out onto the road.

Maybe if one has been used to recumbents, this would not seem so much of an issue, but as an owner of five standard bikes riding about 8,000 miles a year, putting myself in a position as if I was a woman about to undergo a pelvic exam and then riding in this vulnerable and unorthodox position, is not to be taken lightly.

What I need to find is a bowling green - flat, smooth and soft to land on when I take the inevitable spill or ten. Either that, or I add another wheel and convert the bike into a trike.

Ken.

 

[Jeremy S]

Hi Ken, that's quite a

Hi Ken, that's quite a description of the riding position! Could you post a photo or two of you on the bike?

 

[Kenneth Jessett]

Photo

Will do.

 

[Andrew 1973]

Like a Pelvic Exam?

"...putting myself in a position as if I was a woman about to undergo a pelvic exam..."

-Ken

I'm no expert on the subject but it sounds like your Q-factor is way off . Go for a much narrower bottom bracket if you can. ;-)

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Hi Ken. There are some great

Hi Ken. There are some great first time instructions around the forum, maybe more so in the Silvio section.

I do know a few of the locals folks that dove cold turkey into a Silvio from a standard (ass-hatchet DF).
Ivan and Larry did, and there are others too. I don't know of anyone off hand that went straight to the Vendetta. The "pelvic exam" riding position is very comfortable once you get over the initial shock.

One of the strangest questions I got a few weeks ago was, "is that thing comfortable, and doesn't it hurt your back". Of course I had the same question for him.

 

[super slim]

The Silvio V1.0 sleek racer

The Silvio V1.0 sleek racer with the 100 mm extension is also VERY stable with cross winds, as tall ship DF riders would take up 2/3 rds of a narrow forest paved road, giving me 1/3, so I would have to slow from +20 kph to their speed, yell out "passing", and see them wobble even more than normal, as they were surprised that anyone could be going as fast as them, pass them, then pedal hard to get back to a +20kph extra speed.The 53 average tooth Q ring(56 max) made all the difference (pedal up to 77 kph @120 cadence), + 28mm tyres and the absolutely amazing front air bag suspension and 50%/50% weight distribution.

This amazing suspension and balanced weight meant that, when I went over cattle grids faster and faster (max 75 kph), landing on the other side did not bounce me around at all. The Silvio is one amazing bicycle!!!!!!!!


The max speed on the last day of Cycle Oregon 2013 was 86.3 kph (54 mph) on a ROUGH narrow forest paved road.
The minimum speed climbing the hill was 5.4 kph (3.3 mph with 24/34 teeth @ 60 cad)

http://www.strava.com/activities/82789892/analysis

 

[hamishbarker]

Andrew B, you beat me to it

Andrew B, you beat me to it re Q factor.

Regarding stability, does anyone have access to Matlab software?

I ask because some academics who have delved into bicycle stability have produced a Matlab program which calculates how the stability of a given bicycle geometry varies with speed. I don't have a copy of Matlab but think it would be very interesting to plug in the numbers for the Vendetta (especially to compare the generational differences in geometry) and other cruzbikes and other recumbents into the program to see what the differences are.

http://bicycle.tudelft.nl/schwab/Bicycle/

and the software, called Jbike6 is here:
http://ruina.tam.cornell.edu/research/topics/bicycle_mechanics/JBike6_web_folder/index.htm

The results of the program show the speeds at which the bicyle behaviour changes from slow speed capsize (i.e. bike just falls over because there is no/little movement), slow speed unstable weaving and stable weaving (sounds like Rick's 4.5-6.5mph range), stable non-weaving (oscillations die away, no-hands, no-steering input riding is possible) and finally the scary sounding high speed capsize (at high enough speed, no-hands riding doesn't work, however this mode is apparently much slower onset and growth of oscillations than the other modes, so riders are able to actively steer to keep the bike stable.

It would be great to see the stability plots for cruzbike geometries compared to other bikes.

 

[MrSteve]

Stability of Your New Recumbent Bike

It's just your perspective that's changed, on your Vendetta.
It looks different, because it is and in this case, different is better.

Is it stable?
Of course it is, Ken.
Put road-miles on your Vendetta; hone your MBB recumbent skills
and you will be deeply satisfied with your decision to purchase your V.


Like everyone else who has posted here, I think my bike
is the most stable bicycle I've ridden since, well, the trike I rode as a tyke.

So, Ken, put in the miles, practice and practice and soon?
Your comfort zone on your bike will include snail-speed up to
as fast as you dare to go.

Or you can sell me your 'dangerous' V at a deep, deep discount....



---



On my hard-ridden Sofrider, I've climbed some pretty steep hills
in ultra low gear, winding my way up, zig-zagging in slow motion,
when it would have been faster to just walk.
And I've also spun the pedals as fast as my legs could spin,
pushing the bike downhill at a little over 43 mph.


When I first rode my Cruzbike Sofrider, I was not capable
of riding it in a straight line:
I had no MBB experience.
Now, I'm very, very stable on my bike.

On the other hand, my experience as a motorcycle test rider
was handy:
Never give up, until you know you have mastered the machine.
The trick is being open to learning.

-Steve

 

[Robert Holler]

I will agree - once you have

I will agree - once you have some good training miles under the belt a Cruzbike is about as stable a platform I have ever been on - other than just standing on a platform. HA!

This last Cycle Oregon there was one section of climb - about 5-6% grade and it was gravel. Some packed, some a bit loose, and some that looked like the surface of the moon with larger protruding rocks. It was NOT the type of climb a fall would be good on.

I was dreading this section but the experience proved to be very comfortable and stable on the V. Particularly having to pick the path carefully and weave around potential obstacles.

Robert

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Andrew, it took me a second

Andrew, it took me a second or 2, but I got it, just too funny!

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Hey SS, those are some

Hey SS, those are some impressive stats, 54 mph, especially when the roads surface is not pristine. So you came from down under up to Oregon to do the 2013 ride? Looking over Roberts 2014 ride photos on Facebook, makes me want to go for it in 2015.

Robert, 5-6% grade in gravel, wow man, that's got to defiantly require good control. I'm just now starting to feel more comfortable and confident on gravel surfaces (I do avoid this). It's like your MBB/FWD skills don't stop after the first few thousand miles. The more you ride the better you become, even at the things you thought not possible.

One other thing I would like to note about stability, is starting on the MBB/FWD. It takes a little time and patience, and comes together after you acquire your MBB legs...But I now find it to be the easiest recumbent I've owned to do dead starts on, save for my ex-700 Catrike of course...Even on hills, I can start better than my ex-Metabike (which I put 4000 miles on) and Tour Easy.

 

[super slim]

Rick,Cycle Oregon 2013 was

Rick,
Cycle Oregon 2013 was the best organized large (2,200 riders) multi-day ride I have done, with an excellent food preparation (4 or 5 years ago they changed caterers, which was a disaster, so back to a VERY professional group), a huge tent to hold 1,000 for breakfast and dinner, very friendly and talkative riders, even to a strange talking Aussy, good shower facilities in 6 semitrailers, good system of baggage relocation to the next camp site, and an innovative fully solar and wind powered phone/GPS charging system, great after dinner talks on bike maintenance, riding skills, etc, AND stunning entertainment put on by the local school kids, and local artists, and you knew that a large % of the profits went to the local towns you stayed in!

We only did 17,650 ft of climbing, and 465 mls over 7 days, so much easier than 2014, but stunning scenery, and a GREAT experience!

You should definitely do the 2015 Cycle Oregon, on the SILVIO, NOT the Vendetta, unless you can find out what the roads are like!

I also did two van supported 15 day rides in Canada / USA, 1 week of riding the rail trails around Wallace ID, 2 weeks of white water rafting down the Grand Canyon, and visiting and walking through 18 National Parks in the Rockies from Glacier MT to the Grand Canyon.

 

[Wannabe]

luv dem cruzbikes!!!!!

With a ton of experience riding motorcycles, and all manner of 2 wheel conveyance, I can attest whole heartedly that the Cruzbike family is uuber stable and more rewarding that ALL OTHER platforms.

Larry, thanks for the nice comments a few days ago. I was working 12 hr days, so did not really have time to write. This weekend has been my first time off in 6 weeks. It would be awesome if we could play some table tennis after a nice long bike ride.
I too bought a robot. I even hopped it up ( higher voltage power supply) because as stock, it became mundane and way to easy.

Rick, I was no super athlete like the other folks you mention. I VERY VERY much want to be able to school a few "ass-hatchet" guys that have been trash talking my recumbents for almost 10 years. I have never had a such an efficient machine as the Silvio.
I hope it will allow me to spank em' I will get a vendetta if needed. LOL However make no mistake, I enjoy my silvio for way more than the possibility of teaching a few lessons. It is pure fun. I have been riding bikes all my life. I am guessing like most folks here. As a former hang-glider pilot, real "spam-can" pilot and Motorcycle cowboy extraordinaire, I love my Cruzbike the best! NOw I just have to figue out how to mount water carrying devices, and get the seat a bit more comfy. Does a ventisit seat offer more cushion, or is it just for staying dry?

 

[Wannabe]

like a pelvic exam?

To me the guys around here that ride Harley's look the part of a woman in Stirrups....just sayin'