Is Wal-Mart a dirty word?

[Nightturkey]

I'm just a poor working schlub who is appalled at the rapidly ascending numbers being posted at the local gas stations. I have begun commuting the 12.5 miles to work on (egad) a $69.95 Wal-Mart special mountain bike, to save some $ and to lose some flab. Both goals are being achieved (lost 38 lbs. since January!), thank the good Lord, but I have been researching ways to make the trip a little easier on my poor 52-year-old carcass. I am in the process of scraping together enough $ to try and purchase a recumbent, and in my internet research I came across the Cruzbike website not too long ago. I have been avidly reading all the info and the various reports from users, and a Cruzbike sounds exactly like what I am looking for. I have read a good number of the forum entries here, and I'm a bit bedazzled at all the technical jargon and the general level of skill and knowledge displayed. I have a couple of questions, and please remember that (a) I'm very new at all this, and (b) my wallet is suffering from a severe case of malnutrition... First of all, is it at all possible to put a Cruzbike conversion kit on something as humble as my Wal-Mart Special? I realize it would not be much to brag about, but if it would work I'm certain it would vastly improve the commute, and just possibly enable me to save up enough money to afford a REAL Cruzbike in the near future. Secondly, if it could be done at all, I'm curious as to the level of technical and/or mechanical skill necessary to assemble the kit - I know which end of a wrench to blow into, and can tell the difference between a metric hammer and an SAE hammer, but my mechanical skills are firmly entrenched at the "Basic" level. Thank you for your time, and I hope to be able to report some good news before too long.

 

[Mark B]

Nightturkey,

First of all, congratulations for taking the step and riding your bike to work! That is huge and especially for somebody that was not an avid cyclist to begin with. My hat is off to you. I'm especially impressed that you accomplished this on a WM special that probably weighs close to forty pounds just by itself!

As I am sure you are aware, the CB kit is designed to work on a Y frame mountain bike. I guess we would have to see a picture of your commuter to determine if it might work. The build is pretty straightforward, but the directions that come with the bike are long on words and short on pictures. Still, if you take your time and ask lots of questions here, we can guide you through it. I will caution you though; If you start with a heavy bike, the CB kit is going to make it slightly heavier. The build will also get in the way of your commute because I promise you won't build it one day and ride it to work the next. It will take a few days to build and a few days to get comfortable riding it. Rushing it will only frustrate you. But.... Let's start by seeing a picture of your commuter bike and go from there, OK?

Mark

 

[Mark B]

I thought more about your post on my own commute to work and decided I wanted to add more.

Regarding your WM special; There is a tremendous difference between a department store bike and a bike shop bike. To put things in perspective; It is a very easy thing to pay more for a good quality rear derailleur than you paid for your entire bike. That is just a fact. As an insufferable tinkerer, I have torn many a department store bike apart and you can tell right away by the components alone the difference in quality. Good parts are cast and machined, whereas cheap parts are often pressed. Don't get me wrong, it's not just the components, either. I've made the mistake of swapping good components onto a cheap dept store frame and the thought that comes to mind is; "you can candy coat a turd, but you still have a turd." Case in point; my own conversion is a cheap dept store bike and all that remains of the original bike is the frame. It rides nice, but it's heavy and it rides heavy, especially on uphills. A quality frame will be built with thinner drawn tubes that are stiff and yet lively. My guess is; if you were to get onto a decent bike shop bike, even a used one and did your commute, you would probably be nothing short of amazed at the difference.

If you think I'm trying to talk you out of a Cruzbike, you're wrong. What I'm trying to talk you out of is building a Cruzbike on a cheap bike. You have already demonstrated a willingness to commute to work and have surely experienced the upside; the feeling of accomplishment, the health benifits and the savings. You've been doing this for the better part of six months, so I'm sure you plan to continue. This isn't just a folly; you've demonstrated you can and will do it and you deserve better than a $70 bike. That bike has paid for itself more than once, trust me. Now, you deserve better. I look at my bike as life insurance, health club, psychologist and recreation all rolled into one beautiful little package. How much is that worth? You'd spend more than seventy bucks a MONTH, for sure. If you ride it all the time, even just on the weekends, there are no cheaper hobbies, no cheaper transportation. So, I would encourage you to continue riding your WM bike until if dies and in the meantime, start you a kitty and save for a Sofrider. I think without a doubt, you would be much happier in the long run.

Mark

 

[Nightturkey]

Just want to say "thanks" for your reply - some definite food for thought. My immediate reponse would be to agree with your last suggestion, to continue riding my WM Special (if nothing else, it's a heckuva great workout!) and save my pennies for a real Cruzbike.
Hope to hear from other folks as well; as the Good Book says, "In a multitude of counselors there is safety"

 

[Kamatu]

I'm going to disagree with Mark to a certain extent since I'm also dealing with the malnourished wallet syndrome some.

Here is what I got: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5412095
El cheapo WalMart Tiara girls bike, there are several others around as conversions. Works just fine.

Now to agree with Mark, the better your base bike, the better your Cruzbike. Not counting issues because I bought my Tiara used, there are a number of things that I should have done different in the building. Without getting fancy, they invariably mean upgrading to better components. I don't have to, but it would improve the bike and my enjoyment of it.

I'm going to end up with a second Cruzbike (no, not a Silvio, not yet) and when I do, I'll be picking up a better frame, putting the conversion kit on it with upgraded components and adding a Xtracycle Freeradical kit to it.

Most of the mechanical stuff is fairly straightforward and there is plenty of advice to be had here. OTOH, there is always another choice if you want to keep an eye out for it:

Ebay search for Cruzbike

I'm having fun and learning, but then I like playing with tools and figuring things out, but if you want to stay at the "Basic" level, then spend a little more to save time and fiddling.

 

[Mark B]

I have to agree with Kamatu that building the bike has been an absolute blast and I've taken a certain amount of joy in riding the bike that I built from the ground up. I had built many bikes from just a frameset for my kids, but this was the first time for myself. And what an adventure it was! But, in the long run, I realize it's not really what I want for a commuter/touring bike. Close, maybe, but not quite. OTOH, I'm not real crazy about tearing it apart until I have another commuter ready to go. I'm not giving up on the conversion kit; I have a couple other frames I want to build up with it. I just don't want to be rushing because I need the bike to ride to work.

Mark

 

[pagetuner]

A couple of comments and questions that in some cases reinforce, in some cases contradict what you've read from others above.
. Sincere congratulations on your life-changing weightloss. A wonderful thing, and you should be very proud.
. What are the particular symptoms of your current bike-riding discomfort? It may be that you can address them easily and cheaply in the short term. For instance, if you feel like you have been straddling a 2x4 all the way to work, get a wider, softer, better sprung seat. If you feel like you are riding in pushup position, get a more upright set of handlebars. If your knees hurt, get a taller seatpost so you can straighten your legs more. And if you are just tired in the legs every day, get a used lightweight (ie less than 30 lbs) bike (from your neighbor's yard sale, likely as not) and see what you like better, what you like less, between the two bikes. Or at least get narrower, unknobby tires for your Walmartbike.
. How fast are you riding your 12.5 miles. If you are riding at a leisurely pace, the aerodynamic advantage of the recumbent is less important. If you are working hard and riding fast all the way, or if it is hilly so you are coasting half the way and hurting half the way, a recumbent will be of more value to you.
. Lastly, I want to send some hints about what a unmainstream idea a Cruzbike is. Not that it's a bad idea -- it is really pretty great -- just unusual and it appeals so far to quite a narrow group. For how many of the members of this forum is the Cruzbike their first adult bike? For how many is it their first recumbent? For how many is a Cruzbike the only bike they own and ride now? For how many is their Cruzbike maintained entirely by the bikeshop, to the point where they have never touched their bike with an allen wrench? I'm thinking the numbers in all these cases are low.

No matter what, if anything about the choice of bicycle makes you stop what you are doing, whether it is a change you do make or a change you don't make, that's wrong. Choose again, so you can keep this up. You are making us proud to be 50+ men.

B.

 

[John Tolhurst]

Not at all, the Walmart bike frames are built to adequate tolerances, of very strong materials and with very thorough welding in my experience, although the welding might not be the prettiest. This sturdiness and low cost accounts for their weight.

The components are generally very average, however even the most plain components do still function well, provided you keep them adjusted. Part of the low cost also gives components which are a little difficult to adjust and keep right and which may show early signs of rust.

Generally I find most expensive equipment takes less time to fuss over and is lighter and usually operates more cleanly. None of these prevents you having a great experience with your Cruzbike.

 

[Mark B]

pagetuner wrote: For instance, if you feel like you have been straddling a 2x4 all the way to work, get a wider, softer, better sprung seat.

I agree with most of what you said, but am calling you out on this statement. In fact, I will boldly call out "BS!" One of the most comfortable saddles made is the Brooks B-17, which is not wide, nor soft, nor sprung. if you don't believe me, please reference anybody that has done any loong mileage rides.. Check crazyguyonabike journals. Wide padded seats will tear you up. Know that.

Mark

 

[Kamatu]

pagetuner wrote:
. Lastly, I want to send some hints about what a unmainstream idea a Cruzbike is. Not that it's a bad idea -- it is really pretty great -- just unusual and it appeals so far to quite a narrow group. For how many of the members of this forum is the Cruzbike their first adult bike? For how many is it their first recumbent? For how many is a Cruzbike the only bike they own and ride now? For how many is their Cruzbike maintained entirely by the bikeshop, to the point where they have never touched their bike with an allen wrench? I'm thinking the numbers in all these cases are low.
B.

I'm the oddball in several ways:
Not my first adult bike, but the first bike I've been able to ride in 15 years or so, one of my motivations once I discovered recumbents by accident this past December (I literally had never heard of them) was being able to ride with my 3 year old son. Of course, now when we go ride "on woad" and he is coasting downhill, he puts his feet up over his front tire like Daddy does, but I think we will get that one figured out.

First recumbent. Chosen among the others because I like the engineering of it. After I read up on various bikes, the only one that tempts me still is some of the tadpole trikes. I'll let others who can compare correct me, I think a Cruzbike is more difficult to learn and then master, but a better ride at the end than other recumbents for commuting and pleasure riding. It is fast as heck too. :mrgreen:

Only bike I own and ride. My current plans as I said earlier are for another Cruzbike with one for just riding and one for cargo. I'd probably pick up a trike before I got a Silvio, but I don't see me getting either anytime soon. Well, unless I get the wife seriously hooked. On that subject, my conversion is a bit of a problem because to fit it to the wife would be more than some small adjustments and it isn't quite right in the comfort area for her now.

Well, I've never taken my bikes to a shop before. I've been tempted on a couple of items to drop the conversion off for "standard" bike maintenance, but I haven't yet. That is more of a time issue and so far I've decided to save the money and take the time when I can get to it. Good news is that with summertime upon us, the wading pool is up again and the baby will spend long stretches of time in there so I can set up and get various jobs out of the way now.

 

[Nightturkey]

I also looked at tadpole trikes, just because I thought they were incredibly cool. But then I visited a bike shop that specializes in recumbents and trikes, and the owner said that he could not recommend a trike for in-town riding because you were so close to the ground that motorists can't see you well - especially truckers - and may misjudge your position relative to their own fenders and/or tires. "Oh, not the sort of thing to take into town to the local grocery store?" I said, and he replied "definitely not". Hmm - a Cruzbike conversion on one of those "industrial" tricycles... now THERE'S an intriguing idea... Anyway, I'm not looking to break any speed records on my commute, although I would like to shave a bit of time off the trip. The terrain on the commute is a bit on the hilly side, but flattens out as I get closer to town. The country-road pavement is a bit rough for the first 6 miles or so (I live amid the pines of the Sumter National Forest in South Carolina), but I turn onto a good smooth road after that. I have early stages of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, so the riding position (even with the handlebars adjusted all the way up) gets pretty uncomfortable after the first 30 minutes or so, and let's face it, at 52 years old I'm looking for comfort, not speed. On the uphills I can always downshift to "granny" and crawl to the top, I'll get there eventually. Bottom line, I want to leave the car keys hanging on their hook as often as I can, and keep those pesky pounds from creeping back on. I thought I could convert the WM Special first, then upgrade later with the money I save pedalling past all those gas stations...

 

[Peder Torgersen]

The Sofrider is my second recumbent. My first one I bought used a Lightning Phantom. I got a Sofrider because I wanted a recumbent I can also use in the winter. I had 2 upright bikes before one I sold the other was my winter bike with winter tires that one is going to be recycled. The other reason is the seat when it rains the seat does not dry up fast on the Phantom. At work I have to leave the bike outdoors it can rain in the morning and the sun is shining when I go home but the seat is wet. The Sofrider has cushions that I take with me indoors. The Sofrider is also better on dirt roads. I also ride with some friends that are not bike club members I can out run them on flats, up hills and down hills with the Sofrider. But when I ride with racers I have problems of keeping up with some of them. That has also something to do with my fitness level I am also soon 52. I might get a Silvio in the future but would only use it with other racers. I would still use the Sofrider for commuting. I do the work on the bikes my self I worked earlier as a mechanic. I am not an expert on bikes but I ask questions when I am uncertain. Many repairs on a bike are not that difficult.
I have been riding to work for years and hope I can continue doing that. It is not just the money saved I enjoy riding the weather now is beautiful but even when the weather is not so good I need the exercize. There are also some people selling there Cruzbikes because of health problems or they want a Silvio. There is also a possibility of buying a used one.
I am not going back to an upright for my commuting to work.

Peder

 

[John Tolhurst]

Well, I'm not ready to call myself odd ball. The reputation of normal bikes is itself a cultural construct. If you can see beyond the culture that occupies you, you will see that the reputation of a normal bike is quite simply not justified by ergonomics or comfort or speed or anything else. Identifying such cultural lunacies is the job of an artist, so I'll accept that title perhaps and all those who jettison cultural ballast and exploit the cruzbike can join me. :twisted:

 

[Mark B]

My Cruzbikes are not my first recumbent, nor my first adult bicycle. Prior to building my conversion, I had ridden a Vision R42 and a Bachetta Strada. I was so enthralled with the FWD and so impressed with the conversion on a cheap mtb that I popped for a Silvio. I currently have 9 road worth bicycles of all shapes in my garage, but the Cruzbikes are the main ones I ride. I do all my own wrenching, except wheel work and that's just because I don't have that kind of patience. And I'm lazy. But, I would not be afraid to take my bike in to be worked on if I got stumped, or didn't have time. I actually enjoy working on them, though.

I'm willing to admit to being an odd-ball. Is that a bad thing? I'd rather march to the tune of another drummer and see things from a little different perspective than your average bear. Put in cycling terms; if all you do is fall into the paceline, all you ever see is the other guy's ass. You don't think Henry Ford wasn't considered an odd-ball with his motorized contraptions he experimented with? Heck, I'd rather be considered a little odd and an individual than just another drone. That's the whole reason I got into recumbents to begin with. They're different. I love the fact that recumbents have these not so good reputations as bikes that can't climb and only good for cycle paths. I love blowing people's minds and ruining their whole preconceived notion of what recumbents are and aren't. I was attracted to Cruzbikes because they make a lot of sense and, even in the cycling fringe world of recumbency, they are off the mainstream. I love the fact that I have a bike that's so new and exotic that there's only three I know of in my area. It's such a great bike, I recognize that's going to change, but for now, I'm on the cutting edge. And really, what's so different between odd-ball and cutting edge?

Mark

 

[Mark B]

Nightturkey wrote: Bottom line, I want to leave the car keys hanging on their hook as often as I can, and keep those pesky pounds from creeping back on. I thought I could convert the WM Special first, then upgrade later with the money I save pedalling past all those gas stations...

And that's the thing. Assuming your WM bike is a good donor to start with, you have to realize it's going to be out of commission for commuting duty during the build and while you learn to ride it. That's something to consider.

I think trikes are cool. I ricky-raced around the parking lot on a couple one time and they really and truly are a blast. I just couldn't see riding them on the streets and that's where I ride. People do, but I wouldn't.

Mark

 

[pagetuner]

The Cruzbike conversion took the place in my garage of a tadpole recumbent trike. I got rid of it for three reasons, one of which -- being low to the ground when near traffic -- is already mentioned above. The second reason is how clumsy an object the trike is: only barely fits thru the people-door of the garage, very heavy to lift up to hang from garage ceiling with the other bikes. The third reason is something I never thought of until I was riding the tadpole on the street.

On a two-wheeler, you avoid road defects with hardly a thought. You only need an inch or two of clearance between two potholes, two tree branches, or a dead squirrel and a soda can. You steer through by unconscious radar as soon as you are comfortable on the bike. On a trike, you need that inch or two of clearance for three separate tracks, spaced fixed distances apart. I found that I was having to make conscious decisions all the time, in a very distracting way -- should I put that pothole between left and rear wheel? right and rear wheel? steer around entirely?

It was an unexpected problem that affected ride enjoyment more than I would have thought. Aside from these issues, tadpole trikes are lots of fun. Like a tiny little sports car.

B.

 

[Mark B]

pagetuner wrote: On a two-wheeler, you avoid road defects with hardly a thought. You only need an inch or two of clearance between two potholes, two tree branches, or a dead squirrel and a soda can. You steer through by unconscious radar as soon as you are comfortable on the bike. On a trike, you need that inch or two of clearance for three separate tracks, spaced fixed distances apart. I found that I was having to make conscious decisions all the time, in a very distracting way -- should I put that pothole between left and rear wheel? right and rear wheel? steer around entirely?

It was an unexpected problem that affected ride enjoyment more than I would have thought. Aside from these issues, tadpole trikes are lots of fun. Like a tiny little sports car.

B.

Pretty cool description of trikes; they are fun like that.

I would not have considered the obstacle avoidance issue, either. I bet rumble strips would be real fun in that regard.

Mark

 

[defjack]

One nice thing about the Cruzbike kit is if you dont like one build its easy to change.My kit has been on 3 bikes so far and they are still rideable.Right now its on a Cannondale and it works so well thats where its going to stay.If you learn to do your own work its a lot cheaper and can be fun. Jack

 

[Nightturkey]

Thank you, defjack, for that bit of info - now I can feel better about putting a Cruzbike conversion kit on "Humpty Dumpty", knowing that as long as I remember to keep the shiny side up and the rubber side down I can take the kit off and put it on another, better-grade donor bike.

 

[Kamatu]

Nightturkey wrote: Thank you, defjack, for that bit of info - now I can feel better about putting a Cruzbike conversion kit on "Humpty Dumpty", knowing that as long as I remember to keep the shiny side up and the rubber side down I can take the kit off and put it on another, better-grade donor bike.

Yep, that is the current plan for this donor after I upgrade to a Sofrider. Only thing I'll have to do to put it back on the road is buy a new quill since I couldn't get down to the LBS for an Ahead adapter, so I machined the old quill handlebar bracket into an adapter. :lol:

I'll buy a better donor bike for the kit, although I think still technically a "cheapie" since part of the price tag for a "better" bike is not only better components, but a wimpier frame, errr, weaker frame, errr, lighter frame for wimpier riders, errr, lighter riders. I figure the price difference between the "cheapie" and "better" will exceed upgrading the components on the "cheapie".