It's me with the unridden Vendetta again.

[Kenneth Jessett]

Hello everyone,

It's been a few months since I last tried out the vendetta, the weather is slightly cooler now so ultra distance riding is back on the calendar. But I NEED HELP!!!

Sorry, didn't mean to shout but I am so frustrated I could cry or spit or do something really rude in the direction of the yellow monster. Simply put, I can't ride it. I've taken it to a sloping area and sat on it and glided down with my feet hanging off the sides but that is as far as I have dared to trust myself on it.

Today I asked a friend to help, thinking that if he was able to hold me steady by holding onto the head rest whilst I placed one foot on the pedal and he ran along side me as I tried to lift the other foot up we could make some progress, but alas not to be. The bike would lean over, the steering would go with it and I was headed for the concrete wall alongside the trail, but other than that bit of excitement, I didn't go anywhere, but fortunately, neither did I crash, but that was the end of that.

Now I'm thinking training wheels. Does anyone have any good suggestions? I'm loath to give up on this because I think if I could only master it, riding the vendetta will be wonderful. I'm sure there is a someone on this forum who has faced the same problem and conquered it, so please tell me how you did it. Thanks. Ken.

 

[JOSEPHWEISSERT]

Pretty much everyone has to go through what you are experiencing. There are many posts in this forum about how to solve your problem, so I won't go into that here. But here's the bottom line: you have to practice a lot so that your brain will rewire. It varies by person, but it took me 8 weeks to become 95% proficient. I went from white knuckling, crashing, becoming frustrated, having trouble going slow, having trouble going fast, getting scared off the road by passing cars, and having to pay 100% attention at all times to just riding normally, being relaxed, not thinking about it, and being able to recover easily when faced with difficult situations. Not to mention being able to beat all but one of the fastest riders around. And not to mention being able to beat groups of A riders all by my lonesome. It takes a lot of effort and patience. But the investment pays high dividends for sure. I will never go back to an upright road bike after becoming addicted to the V.

 

[Zzzorse]

For me the turning point was Ratz's step number 6. But a Silvio 1.0 is easier to learn.

 

[Rick Youngblood]

It doesn't sound like you have progressed enough to be on a trail or near a concrete wall. You need an open area with a slight decline . I think more glide time will help.

I 2nd this, great advice!

 

[SamP]

You might want to find someone with a Quest or a Sofrider or even a Silvio nearby to try starting with a less reclined recumbent.

 

[jond]

no 1 do not give up. repeat do not give up you can do it. especially if i did.

no 2 look up ratz's advice here on the forum for how to learn to ride and see tips for riding on home page.

no 3 take your time and practice often. once i had mastered rolling down my slight incline i went off to a carpark and practiced fig 8s as per ratz's brilliant advice. even today with 10k on the bike i still feel i have some learning and development such is the giving nature of this incredible bike. mighty nuanced is the vendetta but she gives so much back.

the first few times i rolled down my street i thought i would never be able to ride the v and despaired. but frequent practice soon had me gaining new skills and rewiring. it really is like learning to ride all over again.

it took me 1000klm to feel comfortable. but it was worth it. now i feel almost as nimble as i am on a DF but faster more comfortable and safer.

 

[Kenneth Jessett]

Thanks for all the replies, I was partly hoping you would all say; "Forget, it, these things are impossible to ride and none of us ride them anymore because we've all smashed up the Vendettas and we still haven't come out of the hospitals yet", but here I am reading so many of you are actually enjoying them. So, I'll have to look for Ratz's step # 6, wherever that is.

As for slopes without concrete walls, this is Houston which is about as flat as it comes and the only slopes anywhere around are overpasses and underpasses and parking ramps - all of which have concrete walls along side them. Anyway, lots of good advice, so thanks again. I'll have another go. I'm also wondering if I can arrange a more upright position by wearing a backpack which might help to get me started. I have lots of backpacks because I do lots of backpacking (but not around here of course) so that is something I might give a try.

And actually, I ride this bike fantastically when I have it set up on the trainer. ;-)

Ken.

 

[Zzzorse]

Ken,

Don't give up. Soon you'll be smiling. Here are Ratz's (Bob Pankratz) instructions:

"Here's the script we use when people come to ride the Quests and see if it's for them. We've refined this over a bunch of people last summer; we are at 20 riders as of August; Some family, some friends, and a good number of former strangers.

If doing this on a Silvio or a Vendetta either sit up for all of these steps or put something behind your back to raise the angle to at least 40 degrees. It's easier to train your hands and feet if you aren't also training your balance. We keep all the Quests set at 43 degrees and people learn pretty easy; especially bent riders. The laying back will come easier as a secondary skill. For example going from Silvio 27 degree to Vendetta 20 degrees took me only two full rides; but it was darn shaking for me at first; the lower you go the more balance you have to adjust to and the more core strength you need; so just take that out of the equation; riding sitting up is a great skill that you will want for intersection and going up step hills, so use it for your learning.

So......

1) Find a parking lot with about a 1-2% pitch. Go to the high end.

2) Do 5 coast down with your feet up in the air spread eagle. Yeah it sounds stupid; but get them as high as you can. This will help you learn the glide and slide mounting trick. Do at least 5, not 1, not 2, at least 5.

3) Do 2 coast downs with you feet just resting on the pedals Do not pedal; your ego will want to, don't do it.

4) Do 3 coast down with you feet just resting on the pedals and steer just a touch using only your foot pressure (this is harder than it sounds; but you need to learn what it feels like) Again resist the urge to pedal the best students wait. You are trying to teach the brain the subtle things. The idea here is to teach the brain that it's really hard to create steering input with your feet.

5) Start doing runs with pedaling 5 or 6 minimum. Straight lines; down and back up the incline. Avoid turning; stop the bike; turn it 180 and go the other direction.

6) Start doing shallow turns; when you turn "DROP" your outside shoulder; it should feel like a reverse shrug; just relax you shoulder muscle so the shoulder drops. This is the same thing you do on racing motorcycles and snowmobiles you have to lean OUT ever so slightly on the turn; this is the opposite of what you do on a road bike. This is the #1 thing DF riders do wrong; they want to lean in to the turn; and coast; at which point they start to fall into the ground. Took watching several struggle to figure that out. This was a hard learned lesson that Bill paid for with his ankle injury. Those that came later owe him one for that.

7) After you can do the shoulder drop; do some pedaling figure-8's. Start big and work smaller; go Both directions; one side will be way easier that the other; that is you dominate side. Make note if it's easier to go left or right. Pedal through the turns if you feel tipping. This is the first bike you've had that you can pedal through any turn. You may have to slam a foot down on your weak direction the first few times.

8 ) Now consider your #7 results. If you turn left and it feels like you will fall into the ground then your right foot is dominate; if you feel like when you turn right you will fall into the ground then you left foot is dominate. If you feel like you are going to fall doing both you are a freak and need to continue practicing #7. Using your dominate foot Practice your up hill starts using this technique

http://cruzbike.com/looking-riding-tips-toe-clips-or-snap-shoes-general-...

After you can do the hill starts you are ready for riding out of the parking lot. You first rides should be slow speed stuff with maneuvering on quiet roads. Going fast and straight is EASY; but to do that you need your low speed skills. If you don't put time into the low speed practice you will have far too many miles of unnecessary periodic OMG moments. Practice in the bank will pay dividends on the road."

 

[Kenneth Jessett]

Thanks Zzzorse, I've copied it and printed it and I'll go and find somewhere to practice it.

Ken.

 

[Zzzorse]

You're welcome but thanks go to Bob. I printed it out too. By the third 20 minute session I was smiling ear to ear.

 

[John Dorlon]

I was partly hoping you would all say; "Forget, it, these things are impossible to ride and none of us ride them anymore because we've all smashed up the Vendettas and we still haven't come out of the hospitals yet", but here I am reading so many of you are actually enjoying them.

Funny, but no! I started with a Silvio 1.5, and got a Vendetta (one of the Yellow ones) after that. I still ride the Silvio occasionally but mostly I ride the Vendetta. I have over 5000 miles on mine. Hang in there. One thing you are right about - riding the Vendetta is wonderful.

I think what Ratz said about sitting up will help. It's a lot easier to balance that way.

 

[LarryOz]

I think what Ratz said about sitting up will help. It's a lot easier to balance that way.

Better yet - cut a variety of foam wedges to put behind your seat pad.
Start off with 30% recline if that works better, and then then work your way down to nothing but the seat!.
I did not think I would ever be able to ride my Sivlio 2.0 when I got it (June - 2014), but practiced every day about 30 minutes and within 10 days I was dodging traffic. Now I can ride it with my eyes closed! (well, that is on the trainer)
You will get, don't give up!

 

[Robert Holler]

I did not think I would ever be able to ride my Sivlio 2.0 when I got it

This comes from the guy who completed a sub 4 hour open road century. All of the advice above is excellent. Stick with it and the results can be huge.

 

[DavidCH]

Hi Kenneth, Try putting a front wheel stabilizer on it so the front wheel stays more straight. If you try to Flintstone it whilst keeping further to the back of the seat and slide down. Your arms should be out straight on the hoods and your heels should just touch the pedals. Start going down a hill with your legs sticking out. Use the legs to balance... don't forget to breath and use the brakes softly. When I got mine together I was well intimidated ... even to the fact I didn't want anyone to see not riding it properly. I guess you could say I was the midnight rider. (The things we do).

 

[super slim]

Now I can ride it with my eyes closed! (well, that is on the trainer)

So THAT's why you crash so often!!!!

 

[super slim]

This is where the Trike attachment for the rear end could be hired out to new Cruzbike riders to assist in learning to ride and as confidence improves then the tilt lock get unlocked at lower and lower speeds until not required at all!
The figure 8s would still be required be done daily to "wire the brain" at higher speeds without the tilt lock, then slower

 

[RojoRacing]

I'm no expert on riding the Vendetta but I think different then most.

If you read through my posts here http://cruzbike.com/forum/threads/the-road-to-500-miles-in-24hrs.8915/ you'll see that although I learned very quickly, it was anything but a graceful experience. In the posts I make in that thread I go a little deeper in describing certain aspects of why we struggle to ride the bike that some of the other more experience members here don't mention because It's all second nature to them at this point. Here is a very quick tip I'll give you that has helped a few of my random friends hop on the V and get rolling in a few minutes.

Most riders naturally add more weight to their outside foot on a standard bicycle and possibly a RWD recumbent(don't know, never ridden one myself). This subconscious action makes it impossible to even get started with your first pedal stroke and here's why. So if your dominant leg or your starting leg is your right foot I bet you keep falling to the left or right if your start pedaling with your left foot. The reason for this is because when you start applying pressure with you right foot and start rolling, your extending your leg. While your in the process of extending that leg you constantly correcting your steering with minor inputs via the handlebars. While all this is going on in the first 1/4 turn of the cranks you left foot is still dangling in the air on it's way up to meet the pedal. Your problem occurs when your right leg reaches it's fully extended position without your left foot on the pedal. So as your correcting your steering you moving the boom left and right in small or large amounts. Once your right foot reaches it's fully extended position you'll lose the ability to steer the boom to the left because your leg can extend any further. If you can't steer to the left to bring your weight back to the center then you'll continue to fall over to the left. This is why you can balance and coast ok with no feet on the pedals. I'm not telling you to get both feet on the pedals during that first 1/4 stroke of the cranks though because it that was the problem then your friend holding you would have worked. What I'm trying to express in far to many words is that it's imperative to you legs from being fully extended when trying to steer the bike because they will act like steering stops if you do. Right leg extended and you fall to the left, left leg extended and you fall to the right.

Once your rolling and coasting through corners you'll want to practice having your outside foot in the 12 o clock position(ready to apply pedal pressure first) because it will turn you wheel into the corner when you go to pedal thus lifting you out of the corner instead to suddenly dipping you in deeper.

 

[mzweili]

Your problem occurs when your right leg reaches it's fully extended position without your left foot on the pedal.

In almost all situations I start with my dominant foot (right) and continue for one or two full revolutions peddling with one foot only. This allows me to balance, works fine for me.

 

[DavidCH]

In almost all situations I start with my dominant foot (right) and continue for one or two full revolutions peddling with one foot only. This allows me to balance, works fine for me.

Might be difficult if Kenneth hasn't been able to clip in

 

[RojoRacing]

I find I most things there are three types of experts. First you have the expert that knows how to do it the right way and understand what they are doing. Second you have the expert who knows how to do it the correct way but has no connect of why it's do that way. Third you have the expert who did it wrong 6 different ways before figuring out the correct way.

On the forums you most get the first and second examples of the expert giving advice which is fine as long as you can weed out the guys in the second category. If you come across the third example of an expert I find they are more valuable then even the first experts. The first expert can only explain how to do something the correct way and can also explain why it needs to be done that way. The third expert can do everything the first can but they can also explain the details of the 6 mistakes your likely to make along the way in the hope you can avoid said mistakes.