Kaboom!

[JOSEPHWEISSERT]

So, on Wednesday, I received my 150 mm crankset with Rotor Q-rings. I put it all together on the bike with a new bottom bracket but didn't have time to do a test ride. Then Thursday, I went out on an LBS ride. I spent most of 2.5 hours chasing the A pack (poorly) by myself. Since I didn't have time to test ride the new setup, I had some trouble with the cassette shifting and I was way over-extended on my reach to the pedals - and the handlebars were too far away. And it just didn't feel like I had the power that I had had with the circular rings. When I got home and got off the bike, I went up the stairs and it was as if I had been doing squats with a barbell on my back. Then my legs were sore on Friday, as if I had done squats. So I put the bike on a trainer on Friday and adjusted the boom so my leg extension was correct and I brought the handlebars back toward me as they were before I put the new crankset on. I then adjusted the Q-rings a little so they give me leverage when they are supposed to. And then I had to pull off the handlebar tape, cut new cable housings, rerun the cable, re-tape the right handlebar, and adjust all the shifting. I had to get everything ready for the Saturday morning group ride. Everything worked on the trainer. Hopefully, it would work on the road.

Saturday morning. Legs were still sore. Quads felt tired when climbing stairs. Got dressed and went out to ride to the ride. I was pretty sure I was going to get my butt kicked. Around 20 minutes to the LBS. The pedaling felt very natural and my power was back. The shifting was spot-on perfect. On the group ride, there were some attempts to sprint to stop ahead signs. I was way in the back, behind the pack. When I saw some movement way up front, I moved out and passed the majority of the pack. Then a small group of front riders. Then I went after the lead guy, who was going for it alone. I got up to speed, blew by him, and proceeded to take the sign. Not even close. There were a couple more attempts along the way, but I did the same maneuver. Come from behind, blow by the pack, overtake the frontmost rider, and take the sign. (Kind of reminds me of advice I received from a cycling coach once about a guaranteed method to win a race: "Get on the front, and stay there!") One of those times, a strong rider attached himself to my draft. I kicked it up, kept a steady but fast pace, and kaboom! He dwindled in the mirrors. And I took the sign. Another time, the sign was at the top of a small hill. But the climbing was not too bad and the kaboom happened before the base of the hill.

On the way back to the shop, there is a nice long stretch of road that is used as the final sprint. It is long enough that a person can't go too early or he or she will blow up. So we went through the final stop lights, took the last curve before the long, smooth, low-traffic road to the stop ahead sign, which is just before the shop. I passed the pack, passed the front guys, and set the crosshairs on the guy out front. The handle bars are kind of like having a periscope. I just aimed the big red monster at the guy out front. He had jumped way too soon, but he was still going strong. I quickly closed the gap, blew by him, and went on toward the sign (which I still could not see) at a comfortable 26 mph. The legs felt great. Then, from way back, I saw someone coming on fast (which turned out to be 33 mph!). So I stepped it up to 29 mph and waited to see what he was going to do. Was he going to try to draft off of me and then try to sprint from behind? Was he going to blow right past me and make me chase him down? Did he have a hidden electric motor in the frame? I was so surprised that I just had to wait and see. So he closed in on me, rode parallel to me, and then (wait for it...) Kaboom! He faded in the mirrors. And (you'll never guess what happened next...I took the sign! He was the second rider to get back to the shop. I have to give it to him - he sprinted for quite a distance at 33 mph and caught a Vendetta. That's amazing on a DF. I was thoroughly impressed. But it was not amazing enough to beat a tweaked Vendetta ridden by another strong rider. The bottom line: 150 mm cranks? Oh yes - maybe even 140 mm cranks. Elliptical chainrings? Most definitely. Enduro XD-15 (top of the line) bottom bracket bearing? Give me two please! Feels like I'm riding a chopped Harley? Better believe it! Is it the closest you'll ever get to being both Robocop and the Terminator at the same time? If you've ever ridden a Vendetta and lived to tell about it, you don't even have to ask! The Vendetta verdict is in: Kaboom!

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Dang, Joseph, that was a nice read, thanks! You should mount a camcorder on that beast so we can follow along. I'm glad to see the Q-rings and shorts cranks worked out for you.

 

[super slim]

Great Report, and this is the way that extra Cruzbikes will be sold!!!
The strong DF riders will start looking closer at this bike, as they get soundly beaten, especially if the rider could not beat them before?
Is that the case here, or were you one of the top DF riders before you went to the BRIGHT, RIGHT, RED side!!!

 

[JOSEPHWEISSERT]

Great Report, and this is the way that extra Cruzbikes will be sold!!!
The strong DF riders will start looking closer at this bike, as they get soundly beaten, especially if the rider could not beat them before?
Is that the case here, or were you one of the top DF riders before you went to the BRIGHT, RIGHT, RED side!!!

Well, I'm not the strongest guy around, but I've been on a racing team since 2003. I'm kind of a middle of the pack A-level. Not the strongest and not the weakest, just kind of in the middle for an A group rider. My team has some super strong younger guys that would always pound my butt into the ground on a regular basis - and that made me stronger quickly. But yes, there was some talking going on after the ride this morning. So this is what I think: This geographical area has nothing like this bike, but a lot of cyclists. So it is a new paradigm that DF riders have no reference for. They are stuck in the old paradigm, but don't know it. I can go on talking all day long to DF riders about how their butts won't hurt anymore, all medical problems including knee pain and saddle sores will be totally gone, it's a super-comfortable ride, and the speed is amazing. I can talk and talk and talk and pass out on the ground from a lack of oxygen, call the paramedics, get resuscitated, and talk for a few more hours - and no one will buy a Vendetta. But if I go out on a group ride with guys that are used to stomping all over other riders on a regular basis, and I easily kick them in their egos (not once, but every sprint), and do it decisively so it isn't even a close call, and blow them up in front of all the other guys, that kind of sinks in way more than the logic of the thing. The bottom line is that their technology sucks. It is outdated, a poor design, and needs to be "rethunk". Once they realize that, then somebody is going to make the switch. Then there will be two of us out there stomping all over the DF riders.

By the way, after doing the group ride this morning and writing the post, I was so full of energy (and so becoming "one" with the bike) that I went out and rode another 57 miles, putting me at 97 miles for the day. The only consequences were extreme thirst and extreme hunger. It got pretty warm out after starting in the mid 40s and I only had one water bottle with me. But no butt pain, no knee pain, no hands falling asleep, no foot pain, no saddle sores, no neck pain, no crotch numbness - just a pleasant ride in the sun with the wind blowing my hair back (under the Giro Attack Shield helmet, of course).

 

[JOSEPHWEISSERT]

You should mount a camcorder on that beast so we can follow along.

Yes, that would be cool. I'm just focusing time and money on tweaking the bike right now. But I'm probably going to have to get a camcorder eventually. It's going on the list. I don't know if Mrs. Dr. Frankenstein will approve the PO though!

 

[LarryOz]

Way to go Joe!!!! Way to go!
OK - I'm gonna go out on a limb here - and say you kinda like the short cranks, Q-rings, and Xd-15 BB, right? I'de love to be able to say: "I told you so...!"

 

[JOSEPHWEISSERT]

Way to go Joe!!!! Way to go!
OK - I'm gonna go out on a limb here - and say you kinda like the short cranks, Q-rings, and Xd-15 BB, right? I'de love to be able to say: "I told you so...!"

Just to set the record straight, Larry Oz is the Wizard who set me on the right track with the cranks, the Q-rings, and the awesome bottom bracket bearing. He told me so. Thanks Larry, these are some great tweaks that are working very well already. And the knee pain totally disapparated. The only thing that might not be perfect, and that you already are aware of, is that (I hate to say it) 140 mm cranks might even be better. I hope you keep us informed as to your experimentation with short cranks. I think there could easily be a set of measurements and formulae that would be able to tell a person his or her ideal crank length based on leg lengths, proper extension angle, and 90-degree minimum angle on the non-extended leg. Then the person could take the ideal length, drop down to the next size, place an order, and be done. So if my ideal crank length were 143.5 mm and cranks came in 5 mm standard sizes, then I could just order a set of 140 mm cranks and I would be done. Is that too much to ask of the cycling industry? Keep pushing the limits Larry, you're doing fine work.

 

[KiwiGuy]

Yee Haa! What a ride Joseph. Love it. Thanks for the write up.

BTW. What chain ring sizes are you running?

Kind regards...

 

[SamP]

Great ride story!

Before getting a dedicated camera, you could start by mounting your phone on your bike.

Here's an online recumbent crank length calculator: http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/misc/crank_angle.asp

 

[JOSEPHWEISSERT]

What chain ring sizes are you running?

I decided to start with 53/38. The reason is that I was running Dura Ace 53/39 circular rings before and wanted to start somewhat similar to what I was already doing. Then I wouldn't have to mess with my rear derailleur or chain length. But shortening the cranks would effectively shift my gearing in the more difficult direction a little since my pedals will travel a shorter distance around the bottom bracket with shorter cranks than would happen with longer cranks. So the big ring is working very nicely now and I ride in the big ring most of the time, but the small ring will probably have to get smaller (maybe a 34 tooth ring) because I can't shift down low enough on steeper hills to keep my RPMs as high as I would like. But then I need to find out if my derailleur and chain length will have to change. Then I might have to check compatibilities and might end up having to change my brifter. So it might not be as easy as simply putting on a smaller chain ring. But it will be easy to put one on and find out if it just works, or if I need some bigger mods to make it work.

 

[Cruzbike Chris]

Good to hear your stories Joseph, keep'em coming for sure. Glad your setup is working out and thanks for the BB's

 

[JOSEPHWEISSERT]

You should mount a camcorder on that beast so we can follow along.

Rick, could you provide some experienced suggestions for a cycling camcorder?

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Rick, could you provide some experienced suggestions for a cycling camcorder?

There are lots of options. I run a GoPro Hero 4 Silver, and FLY6. Larry uses a Garmin Verb. Bob runs a Garmin Verb, Rideye, and FLY6. There is also the lesser expensive Garmin Verb. The FLY6 catches rear video.

 

[JOSEPHWEISSERT]

A recent scientific study has compared the DF bicycle with the Vendetta. Here are the results.

1A) DFs are fast and cute. And they sure do feel light.



1B) Vendettas eat DFs. Breakfast, lunch, and dinner.



2A) Riding a DF can be painful. It can cause headaches on both ends. A DF can be a pain in the neck and a pain in the butt at the same time. Ouch!



2B) Vendettas don't feel pain. And they always look cool. Sure they're a little heavier. That's because they are built like Sherman tanks!



3A) Some recumbent riders claim that DFs suck. Some claim that DFs are designed to suck. Others claim that they are not even good at sucking.



3B) Robot legs are cool. A Vendetta is better than having robot legs. It's like having the whole robot. If you see a Vendetta in your rearview mirror, don't sprint - it's just embarassing.




Okay, go ahead and sprint. You can beat a smelly old guy on a stupid recumbent. Trust me.

 

[ratz]

OK - I'm gonna go out on a limb here - and say you kinda like the short cranks, Q-rings, and Xd-15 BB, right? I'de love to be able to say: "I told you so...!"

The circle is now complete. When he left us, he was but the learner; now he is a master.

Always two there are, a master and an apprentice.....

 

[SamP]

I've occasionally mounted a Mobius Action Cam, which is a budget action cam from last year. The manufacturer is responsive to the user community. I haven't followed developments so I'm surely out of date, there probably is better now.

Ah, checking out Techmoan, there looks to be some newer budget alternatives.

 

[LarryOz]

You are too kind Bob -I may have taken up the cross of the short cranks, but true credit me thinks goes to Ratz and Rick, especially for the Q-rirngs and XD-15 BB.
The beautiful thing about this forum is that everyone is so willing to share their knowledge. No one keeps the good stuff to themselves to be better than others.
Great generosity!

 

[ratz]

You are too kind Bob -I may have taken up the cross of the short cranks, but true credit me thinks goes to Ratz and Rick, especially for the Q-rirngs and XD-15 BB.
The beautiful thing about this forum is that everyone is so willing to share their knowledge. No one keeps the good stuff to themselves to be better than others.
Great generosity!

What is known, pales compared to what is done with that knowing. I'm rather thoroughly enjoying watching the ideas spread to the 3rd and 4th generation of rides. I'm justing going to sit back and watch Joseph torture and eventually convert his riding buddies.

 

[JOSEPHWEISSERT]

Here's an online recumbent crank length calculator: http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/misc/crank_angle.asp

I finally got around to trying out the calculator you posted. I just used a metric tape measure on myself, so accuracy is somewhat questionable. The calculator says I should have 140, 145, or 150 mm cranks for a medium or high BB with a minimum knee angle of 86 to 89 degrees. So, according to the calculator, I'm in the sweet spot with 150 mm cranks. Does anyone know if the Vendetta is classified as either a medium BB or a high BB?

 

[LarryOz]

I'm just going to sit back and watch Joseph torture and eventually convert his riding buddies.

That is going to be a thread that I'm watching for too! I suspect what we see transpire in the next decade with the switch to bents (especially in ultras) is going to be nothing short or phenomenal!
We've got front row seats!