JOSEPHWEISSERT
Zen MBB Master
Does anyone else have good or bad experience with latex tubes? I wanted to switch over from butyl, but not if they're going to blow out unexpectedly multiple times. Anyone?
Latex Larry and the case of blown out tire
- Thread starter JOSEPHWEISSERT
- Start date
MrSteve
Zen MBB Master
Almost... although all of my miles are fast-ish ones, they aren't racing miles.
These bikes are front-wheel drive, the front wheel does the steering and the front wheel does most of the braking
so, that's an awful lot to ask of a wheel, in the course of an endurance race.
Here's a few questions for you guys:
-A bigger tire on the front would help with the loads, right?
Motorcycles have bigger rear tires to handle the horsepower.
(My bike has a big front tire and a small rear tire.)
-Are you using a rim brake on the front?
If the course calls for lots of brake use, that heat is going into your tire via the rim.
Why not consider running a disc brake on the front wheel on courses that need lots of brake work.
(I don't race, so my rim brake works fine... I wish my brake was a drum brake. Drums are better in wet weather.)
-Are you getting more front-tire punctures/flats?
In my experience, the drive wheel gets more flats than the non-drive wheel.
Why not consider either mounting a puncture resistant tire (tubeless, perhaps) or installing sealant -slime- in the tube.
(My tire is one of those flat-resistant brands.)
O.K., that's my .002 cents.
Good luck!
And Larry? Stop that crashing habit... it's not all it's cracked up to be.
ratz
Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
Once the latex is in correctly it should be more durable and more resistant to punctures. The major problem is that they are more fragile when getting them in and mounted and they don't hold air over time. When installing they don't comply and they like to get between the wheel and the tire; pinch, pump, pop repeat. So they are dam impossible to change in a ditch.
On the other side of the coin, all sow-in/glue-on tubes are latex. The inherent problem of daily air lose is a challenge for riders doing longer events. I don't think I would want to run them in an ultra event over 12 hours, with the lose of air, you run the risk of the tire rolling off the rim, and a low pressure FWD wheel is really more squirrelly than any bike I've been on. I've done one full front tire dismount crash (my fault) and I am not keen to repeat it.
If you aren't trying to save seconds on some sort of record attempt, they really aren't worth the hassle.
Larry's wheel really seems to have some sort of defect that he'll be inspecting to find; his rate of failure is a statistical outlier; something is going on there beyond the tubes.
DavidCH
In thought; expanding the paradigm of traversity
This season I decided to go tubeless with my carbon rims. I think they will be more forgiving if I had a blow out.
I am pleased that I didn't get carbon bullhorns. The aero alluminium ones are very stable and give me something firm to take any unforeseen stresses out of a situation.
I am pleased that I didn't get carbon bullhorns. The aero alluminium ones are very stable and give me something firm to take any unforeseen stresses out of a situation.
gilpeel2002
New Member
First off, I am glad that Larry was not seriously hurt. There is something going on with that setup. Please consider my experience below.
I have been using tubeless wheels and tires with Stan's sealant since 2009. I had one puncture on a century ride in that year that was witnessed by a rider behind me. He said in 3 or 4 revolutions the sealant stopped coming out. I did not even stop to check and rode to the end without further incident. Since 2010 I have been on a Silvio. First a 1.0 and then a 1.5 model. I am still running the same wheels. I used Hutchinson tires, since they were the only game in town, until the 2015 season. I only had one other puncture about 3 years ago. The sealant had dried up in the tire, not uncommon in the heat of summer, and the tire slowly went down. I stopped, removed the stem insert, put 1/2 bottle od Stan's sealant in, reinstalled the stem insert and re-inflated the tire. I didn't even need to remove the wheel.
I used the Hutchinson tires until the 2015 season with no problem. I did try the Bontrager tubeless tires a few years back and found that they were difficult to install to the point that I was probably damaging them during installation. They wouldn't reliably hold air even with sealant. I suffered through 3 or 4 of these tires and went back to Hutchinson. Last year, 2015, I switched to Schwalbe #1 Tubeless and found them easy to install and have not had a flat.
In summary, in the 15 or so years before 2009 I used high quality wheels with tires and tubes. I have no exact records but I think I averaged 1 to 2 flats per year. Some of those flats created some very hairy situations, although somehow I was able to keep control. Since 2009 I have only had 1 puncture that caused me to stop, the incident described above. That, I believe, is a marked improvement. Tubeless wheels and tires are not cheap. They are not in stock at every bike shop. They need to be installed with some care to ensure that they are properly seated on the bead. They do give me peace of mind. I used to run tires and tubes inflated to 120PSI. I run tubeless tires at 90PSI and get a much nicer ride. a nice additional benefit.
I have been using tubeless wheels and tires with Stan's sealant since 2009. I had one puncture on a century ride in that year that was witnessed by a rider behind me. He said in 3 or 4 revolutions the sealant stopped coming out. I did not even stop to check and rode to the end without further incident. Since 2010 I have been on a Silvio. First a 1.0 and then a 1.5 model. I am still running the same wheels. I used Hutchinson tires, since they were the only game in town, until the 2015 season. I only had one other puncture about 3 years ago. The sealant had dried up in the tire, not uncommon in the heat of summer, and the tire slowly went down. I stopped, removed the stem insert, put 1/2 bottle od Stan's sealant in, reinstalled the stem insert and re-inflated the tire. I didn't even need to remove the wheel.
I used the Hutchinson tires until the 2015 season with no problem. I did try the Bontrager tubeless tires a few years back and found that they were difficult to install to the point that I was probably damaging them during installation. They wouldn't reliably hold air even with sealant. I suffered through 3 or 4 of these tires and went back to Hutchinson. Last year, 2015, I switched to Schwalbe #1 Tubeless and found them easy to install and have not had a flat.
In summary, in the 15 or so years before 2009 I used high quality wheels with tires and tubes. I have no exact records but I think I averaged 1 to 2 flats per year. Some of those flats created some very hairy situations, although somehow I was able to keep control. Since 2009 I have only had 1 puncture that caused me to stop, the incident described above. That, I believe, is a marked improvement. Tubeless wheels and tires are not cheap. They are not in stock at every bike shop. They need to be installed with some care to ensure that they are properly seated on the bead. They do give me peace of mind. I used to run tires and tubes inflated to 120PSI. I run tubeless tires at 90PSI and get a much nicer ride. a nice additional benefit.
jond
Zen MBB Master
thank god you are okay Larry. your positive outlook is inspiring mate.
plus one on the tubeless caper. i used to be a major user of stans on road and mtn .
never bothered with latex tubes.
for flat prevention i find that my letting my tyres down periodically and inspecting them pinching tread area between thumb and forefinger i can pull out an amazing amount of wire and glass before i puncture and save a flat.
i reckon you need to assess where you ride. quiet roads inner tubes are okay. busy roads go tubeless. major roads and commute use solid tannus tyres or accept the flats.
on the vendetta i am about 50/50 % with flats front and back and i put that down to weight distribution.
the old DF it is about 10/90 % with most flats in the rear further confirming the DF is a major pain in the butt.
get well soon larry .
plus one on the tubeless caper. i used to be a major user of stans on road and mtn .
never bothered with latex tubes.
for flat prevention i find that my letting my tyres down periodically and inspecting them pinching tread area between thumb and forefinger i can pull out an amazing amount of wire and glass before i puncture and save a flat.
i reckon you need to assess where you ride. quiet roads inner tubes are okay. busy roads go tubeless. major roads and commute use solid tannus tyres or accept the flats.
on the vendetta i am about 50/50 % with flats front and back and i put that down to weight distribution.
the old DF it is about 10/90 % with most flats in the rear further confirming the DF is a major pain in the butt.
get well soon larry .
RojoRacing
Donut Powered Wise-guy
I ran a latex tube in my front wheel during the 24hr worlds last year with no problems. We reset the PSI around the 12hr mark and if I recall they said it was around 20 lower then we started. I set it 10 high and figured it would drop 20 in 12hrs so it worked out perfectly. I flatted that same tube the very next week with a tiny shard of metal, it was a slow leak and not a blowout though. I ran a standard tube in the rear because Maria's disk wheel I borrowed came with a flat and it's a major PITA to get a tube into that wheel.
trplay
Zen MBB Master
I changed over from tubeless to tubes at Sebring for the sake of speed and paid the price with a flat. The propaganda adds claim the Schwalbe Pro One tubeless is as fast or faster than the fast clinchers. I wish some of you fast guys would try them out and give your opinion.
ratz
Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
http://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/gear/article/tubs-vs-clinchers-which-are-faster-45671/
Ill save you the 9 minutes: Clinchers are faster. Sorry. They are also less of a hassle BY FAR. Ugh.
Ill save you the 9 minutes: Clinchers are faster. Sorry. They are also less of a hassle BY FAR. Ugh.
jond
Zen MBB Master
another case of aero beats weight with more convenience. it was the convenience of clinchers that led to the choice of enve 6.7 for me despite the added weight. around 350 grams. but the interface of a 25mm tyre gives a much better aerodynamic than the tubs. train on clinchers and race on clinchers. thanks for the video robert.
LarryOz
Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
I used to be kinda fast, but I found when averaging my time laying in the middle of the road doing "ZERO mph", my average speed decreasing quite fast!
I will be adding this to my testing list nevertheless. But, I think I'm going to have to take an entire year off of work to complete my planned testing - donations now being accepted!
ratz
Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
You and me both; I been thinking I should setup a https://www.patreon.com account. Create a list of cool products; people donate to which ones they want tested and review. Then when each is funded do the reveiw and raffle off to those people that sponsored the review. *Sigh* not enough hours in the day.
snilard
Guru of hot glue gun
I have 28 mm version for my front wheel on way. I except it to be delivered at begining of next week. But I haven't any way how to measure if it is faster or slower compared to tubed Schwalbe One.
LarryOz
Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
You'
You'll need a power meter of some kind, and a place like a track with conditions that can remain the same when you do the testing
snilard
Guru of hot glue gun
This is exactly what I do not have
Speed isn't main reason why I am switching to Pro One, so I don't need any scientifical evidence on it
snilard
Guru of hot glue gun
Also Bontrager's sealant would be much better than Stan's. I will be using it because I can easily source it from LBS. Orange Seal would be even better but I cannot source it that easy.
I have found this sealant test:
Sealant Test - Part 1 - Slowtwitch.com
Sealant Test - Part 2 - Slowtwitch.com
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LarryOz
Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
I actually bought and used orange seal on my wheel for Sebring. I'll like you to look at my tube and tire when I get back in town Gary. Kent Polk actually found a small projection "bump" on the edge if the wheel that he thinks could have caused the flat, but I could not find the puncture.
