Learning to ride the S40

[cpml123]

Newbie here... I have 45 miles on my new S40. I still wobble and swerve a lot starting from a stop and I am still white knuckling the handlebars. I still am nervous about tight turns too. I chose the S40 because the roads here in Central Cali are some of the worst in the country. They are literally cobblestone-ish and have destroyed my wrists and lower back from riding my Specialized carbon race bike with electronic shifting. My thoughts on the S40 are that it is comfortable and the SRAM shifting is tight. I love the heads up view! But I feel like I traded in my Ferrari for a station wagon. Last Wednesday I took the S40 for a 15 mile ride. It took me a little over an hour. The next day, my orthopedic doc did a temporary numbing of the nerves in my lower back. I felt like a million bucks! I took the Roubaix out for 22 miles. It took me about the same amount of time as the 15mi on the S40.

Questions for the pros
* should I expect to get faster on S40?
* in a few weeks, the temps here will be very hot (>100F) Any comments on the Cruzbike vent seat?
* is there any way to make this bike lighter? It is literally 2x the weight of my carbon bikes.
* I hang my carbon bikes on the wall using a front wheel hook. How do you guys store your Cruzbikes?
* Is it possible to ride hands free? Or, will I eventually be able to grab a water bottle and take a drink on the fly?
* is it possible to be nimble on the S40? It seems best suited for straight riding.
* Last riding season, I regularly did 50-60 mile solo rides into the Sierra foothills on my Roubaix. This year, my longest S40 has been 18 miles and I was out of gas by the time I returned home. Do you think my endurance on the S40 will rival the carbon bike?
* How does the S40 climb hills vs. traditional bikes?
* as mentioned above, I struggle with starting on flat ground. Is starting going uphill possible?

Thanks for any advice.
Kirby in Chowchilla

@Randyc3 also has a Roubaix. He had a S40 and changed to V20c. He can probably give you a really good comparison.

I did eventually get much faster, above my previous DF level. I am still slower on hills compared to my riding friends, especially on long or steep climbs. But on rolling hills, Cruzbike really goes fast.

Hang in there. It takes a few months to get used to it.

 

[IyhelM]

My 2 ct:
* should I expect to get faster on S40?
Absolutely. Position differs from upright bikes, muscles are used differently, your body needs practice to adapt.
* in a few weeks, the temps here will be very hot (>100F) Any comments on the Cruzbike vent seat?
That is one drawback of laidback recumbents: what you gain in aero, you lose in ventilation. The ventisit cover is as efficient as it gets though. By the way beware of sunburns too, your face, biceps and knees will be much more exposed.
* is there any way to make this bike lighter? It is literally 2x the weight of my carbon bikes.
If you already have light wheels, basically: no.
* I hang my carbon bikes on the wall using a front wheel hook. How do you guys store your Cruzbikes?
Same but you can also hang it form the rear wheel, depending on ceiling/ground clearance.
* Is it possible to ride hands free? Or, will I eventually be able to grab a water bottle and take a drink on the fly?
It is with experience, same as any bike. Keep practicing
* is it possible to be nimble on the S40? It seems best suited for straight riding.
Your brain and body need to get used to the balance of a MBB bike. Practice! For tight maneuvers, straighten up to bring your gravity center closer to the steering axis. Nowadays I find that I am more nimble on the Silvio than I used to be on my DF thanks to the lower gravity center.
* Last riding season, I regularly did 50-60 mile solo rides into the Sierra foothills on my Roubaix. This year, my longest S40 has been 18 miles and I was out of gas by the time I returned home. Do you think my endurance on the S40 will rival the carbon bike?
Eventually it should actually exceed it as you will not be troubled by neck, wrist, back or bum ache.
* How does the S40 climb hills vs. traditional bikes?
Slower. Typically, once you have fully acclimated, you can keep up up to 5%; on steeper slopes you’ll likely climb ~15% slower. You’ll make up for it on descents and flats but it can be annoying in group rides.
* as mentioned above, I struggle with starting on flat ground. Is starting going uphill possible?
Do not lay back when starting. Keep your torso straight, as close as possible to the handlebar. Experienced riders have no issue starting on 10+% slopes - well, no more than DF riders.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Newbie here... I have 45 miles on my new S40. I still wobble and swerve a lot starting from a stop and I am still white knuckling the handlebars. I still am nervous about tight turns too. I chose the S40 because the roads here in Central Cali are some of the worst in the country. They are literally cobblestone-ish and have destroyed my wrists and lower back from riding my Specialized carbon race bike with electronic shifting. My thoughts on the S40 are that it is comfortable and the SRAM shifting is tight. I love the heads up view! But I feel like I traded in my Ferrari for a station wagon. Last Wednesday I took the S40 for a 15 mile ride. It took me a little over an hour. The next day, my orthopedic doc did a temporary numbing of the nerves in my lower back. I felt like a million bucks! I took the Roubaix out for 22 miles. It took me about the same amount of time as the 15mi on the S40.

Questions for the pros
* should I expect to get faster on S40?
* in a few weeks, the temps here will be very hot (>100F) Any comments on the Cruzbike vent seat?
* is there any way to make this bike lighter? It is literally 2x the weight of my carbon bikes.
* I hang my carbon bikes on the wall using a front wheel hook. How do you guys store your Cruzbikes?
* Is it possible to ride hands free? Or, will I eventually be able to grab a water bottle and take a drink on the fly?
* is it possible to be nimble on the S40? It seems best suited for straight riding.
* Last riding season, I regularly did 50-60 mile solo rides into the Sierra foothills on my Roubaix. This year, my longest S40 has been 18 miles and I was out of gas by the time I returned home. Do you think my endurance on the S40 will rival the carbon bike?
* How does the S40 climb hills vs. traditional bikes?
* as mentioned above, I struggle with starting on flat ground. Is starting going uphill possible?

Thanks for any advice.
Kirby in Chowchilla

Welcome Kirby. Glad to see that you made the leap. I have a V20, but I believe that your S40 will become your favorite over your previous road bikes. One thing about 'bents in general is that your legs can't take up any of the bumps that they do while on a road bike. No bunny hopping over potholes or changing the tension in your grip to match the roughness in the road. Bumps are going to transfer through the seat making it more rattling than what we were used to on our road bikes. Some of that can be lessened by putting some high density foam under your Ventisit and directly onto the seat pan. I did it and after a bit of customization and time mine is fine for my regular paths.

Now I'll try to answer your questions with what I've experienced on my V20.
* Yes, you'll get your "bent legs" and get faster if you keep at it. Good wheels and even a tailbox to help clean up the aerodynamics will help too.
* My Ventisit seat works as well as can be expected for such a huge contact patch with my butt and back. The good thing is that since I am way more aero than on my road bike I get a lot more evaporative affect. I found that wearing a rash guard shirt like for surfing, and putting some water on it helps cool me off really well.
* The kind of wheels you get will help you with not putting on so much weight. Light, climbing wheels such as Campagnolo Zondas would help the weight issue, but they aren't very aero at all.
* I store my V20 in a room downstairs on a friction trainer. The Mavic CXR 60C wheels I keep on it are carbon fiber bonded onto aluminum rims so they would crack if I used them to hang on the wall.
* Initially I used bottles behind my head, and this actually helped a little aerodynamically as opposed to nothing behind the head. While stopped, get used to pulling out and putting in the bottle into the cage before you attempt it while moving. Now I use a hydration bladder in a light backpack worn backwards on my chest. Filled with ice and my hydration of choice it also serves to cool me off depending on how much ice I put inside. With a bite down drink tube I can hydrate hands free. As for riding hands free, yes you can learn to do that. It takes a little practice for the moving bottom bracket (MBB) to not feel like it's trying to kill you, but again, with practice, you can actually learn to use it to your advantage by being able to pedal steer.
* Some CB riders are very good at slow speed maneuvering. I am not one of them because I didn't really spend much time honing that skill. I'd guess that any 'bent is going to be less nimble than a road bike, but take that with a grain of salt. I can say that my V20 is stable at speed, and most likely the S40 is too.
* I think your S40 will outshine any of your other bikes on long rides, and the longer the ride the better it will. After 2-3 hours on my titanium Litespeed T1, which is a very comfortable bike, I was starting to hope my friends would suggest to stop at every rest area. Which is a shame because my legs were not even close to being tired. I've done numerous +240km rides in the 7H45M to 8H15M nonstop at 30-31kph at 160-175 watts before finally having to stop to refuel. My legs were starting to go, but I wasn't uncomfortable.
* As for climbing, weight is going to be your biggest issue, and this is probably the biggest reason why 'bents are going to give way to road bikes on climbs, and that lighter weight is going to trump the better aerodynamics after a specific slope. I'll explain here...

In my case, comparing my Litespeed T1 versus my V20, at 250 watts on both bikes, my V20 is going to be faster up to a 3% grade. Anything steeper than 3% at that power and my T1 is going to start pulling away. The steeper the slope the faster my T1 drops my V20. However, at higher power (300 watts?) better aerodynamics on my V20 might push that break even slope to 3.5%.

Both bikes at 200 watts, my lighter T1 is going to drop my V20 at about 2.5% slope since the V20's better aerodynamics are less in play.

Both bikes at 150 watts, that break even slope changes to about 2% since aerodynamics are even less at play because we are going slower. In short, that 5-6kg weight difference is going to help my T1 in climbs. There are very slight factors that will alter the numbers above, and I won't say they are insignificant. But those numbers are pretty close, and easy for me to remember. Anything under 3%, on the flats, and on the descents, aerodynamics is king, and that weight is really insignificant except in a slightly slower acceleration. That weight will actually help you on the descents though.

* Starting uphill... this is a topic that has been thrown around a lot in the 'bent community, and I always defend Cruzbikes which I will explain why in a second. Wheel slip does occur on a FWD recumbent under heavy power. I HAVE to get that out of the way first. If the road is wet, and even more so if it is gravelly too. Throw in wet leaves and you have all the makings of wheel slip. With that said, I bet I can get rear wheel slip on a RWD bent almost as easily under the same conditions. Hell, it doesn't take a lot of power to get wheel slip on a road bike under those conditions.

Now, here's why I defend Cruzbikes. When you are on an ascent on a road bike under any, all, or none of the conditions I listed above, if you get a bit of wheel slip you naturally and instinctively, and smoothly put out less power so you won't lose control, but enough to get moving again. It's easy to do the same thing on a Cruzbike. The main way I avoid any of that mess is simply never stop on a hill, ESPECIALLY a steep one. If I absolutely must stop on a hill (puncture or accident) I am going to do the butt-slide to get going again instead of trying to start pedaling from a cold stop. If I can't restart on a hill even with doing the butt-slide then I am going to push my bike up the hill until I can start with a butt slide.

That's a bunch to read, but I hope it helps.

 

[Yelawolf]

Hard to say..

 

[chicorider]

Hello from Chico, CA!

I'm coming in a little late, after a lot of great advice. I have nine years on a V20 and V20c, but I also own an S30, and have owned an S40.

* should I expect to get faster on S40?

Yes, but it will take time to get your bent legs. I can hold 19-20mph on my Specialized Aethos for a while, but I can hold 24-25mph on my V all day long. For me, leg fatigue is noticeably lower on the V, so I can go longer, faster, with fewer stops. The S40 might be a little slower than the V, but it should eventually allow you to go faster than your Roubaix.

* in a few weeks, the temps here will be very hot (>100F) Any comments on the Cruzbike vent seat?

Chico summers are hot too. The Ventisit pad is worth the upgrade. I also wear cooling jerseys (I like the Under Armor compression tops) and white cooling sleeves during the summer. The V is the best bike I have for evaporative cooling on faster flat routes. If I leave early enough, I can punch out 50 miles and be back home before the serious heat sets in. Just make sure to sunscreen the tops of your legs. They will cook otherwise.

* is there any way to make this bike lighter? It is literally 2x the weight of my carbon bikes.

I've got my V down to about 23 pounds, with a Shimano Dura Ace build and 47mm deep carbon wheels. Still about eight pounds heavier than my Aethos, but in most situations, the V's aero advantage far outweighs the Aethos' weight advantage. Once, on a 3-4 percent 12 mile downhill, I decided to ride it without pedaling the V even once, while my 50 pounds heavier friend pedaled his Roubaix in the drops the whole way. I still beat him to the bottom by a minute. None of that was me. I put in zero watts. The bike, however, just pulled away, and there wasn't anything he could do about it. On my Aethos, this same friend routinely gaps me on downhills. You can probably get your S40 down to a similar weight, but the aero advantage is the big thing.

* I hang my carbon bikes on the wall using a front wheel hook. How do you guys store your Cruzbikes?

I hang all of my bikes, including the V and S30, upside down by both wheels on hooks in the garage.

* Is it possible to ride hands free? Or, will I eventually be able to grab a water bottle and take a drink on the fly?

Riding hands free is a cool trick, but I've never felt the need to develop it. I can, however, grab a bottle from behind my head, drink, and put it back while holding a straight line. I don't tend to do it when a long line of cars is going by, but that's the same for when I'm on my Aethos. One-handed riding with either hand eventually becomes easy, but I had to put in about a 1,000 miles before I got there. By then, I had relaxed considerably and had learned how to incorporate my feet into the steering, smoothing out the whole ride.

* is it possible to be nimble on the S40? It seems best suited for straight riding.

Absolutely. These bikes will carve corners as fast as you have the nerve to hold speed. I like to cut apexes when I can to flatten the turn out a bit. Also, for sharper curves, I will keep my head/eyes level with the road, and weight the outside edge of the seatpan with my torso, in the same that DF riders weight the outside pedal on tighter turns to plant the bike more into the ground. My one significant crash on the V was was when I carried too much speed into a downhill turn with a somewhat chattery road surface. I grabbed a bit of brake mid-turn, lost traction, and slid into third for about 20 feet. Nothing broken, but I did lose some skin. Total pilot error on a new-to-me turn. Since then, I brake a little more before turns, especially when they're new to me. I also take surface quality into account and ease up some when it's less than ideal.

* Last riding season, I regularly did 50-60 mile solo rides into the Sierra foothills on my Roubaix. This year, my longest S40 has been 18 miles and I was out of gas by the time I returned home. Do you think my endurance on the S40 will rival the carbon bike?

My endurance is way better on the Cruzbikes. I will often add miles on a V ride because the legs are just humming and it feels super good (and my butt, shoulders, neck, and hands don't hurt). Typical rides on my Aethos range between 30-50 miles, while for the V, it's 50-100 miles. And after 100 miles on the V, my legs feel much less fatigued than they do after 50 miles on the Aethos--a bike on which I have to work harder to still go slower.

* How does the S40 climb hills vs. traditional bikes?

Answers might range widely on this one. I am a smaller, lightweight rider with a climber's body. Climbing has always been my strength. My Aethos is maybe a little faster on climbs in a direct comparison with the V under similar efforts (I don't ride with a power meter, so I have to rely on perceived effort), but many of my climbing PRs on Strava are on the V and S30. I have a 15 mile up-and-back climb of about 2,700 feet that I do regularly. My time on the Aethos is routinely 1:48. My time on the V is routinely 1:44. I lose a little bit of time to the Aethos on the way up, but gain back gobs of time on the way down. Also, that lower amount of fatigue on the V applies to climbing as well. I can climb longer and higher with less fatigue on the V, making it perhaps the faster climbing bike overall on bigger 8,000+ feet climbing days.

* as mentioned above, I struggle with starting on flat ground. Is starting going uphill possible?

The trick for me when starting from a stop on flat ground is being in the right gear before starting. When I see a yellow light about to turn red, I start shifting down. By the time I get to the stop, I want to already be in my small ring (36t) and second to largest cog (27t). Dropping to the small ring is easy. For the cog, I will go all the way up to the 30t, then drop down one to hit the 27t. Boom, ready for a smooth, predictable start when the light turns green. My fingers have done this pattern long enough now that they do it quickly and automatically. If the start is a little uphill, I will go into the 30t and plan to put a little more umph into the first stroke. If it is more than a little uphill, I might sit up for the first few strokes to put a bit more weight over the front wheel. I will also sometimes ratchet the cranks with my dominant leg two or three times to give the bike a little froward progress before turning the cranks all the way over and bringing the other foot up to meet its pedal. Uphill starts are doable, but it might be one of the later skills that comes in.

Sorry this is long. I hope some of it helps.

 

[Tuloose]

Newbie here... I have 45 miles on my new S40. I still wobble and swerve a lot starting from a stop and I am still white knuckling the handlebars. I still am nervous about tight turns too. I chose the S40 because the roads here in Central Cali are some of the worst in the country. They are literally cobblestone-ish and have destroyed my wrists and lower back from riding my Specialized carbon race bike with electronic shifting. My thoughts on the S40 are that it is comfortable and the SRAM shifting is tight. I love the heads up view! But I feel like I traded in my Ferrari for a station wagon. Last Wednesday I took the S40 for a 15 mile ride. It took me a little over an hour. The next day, my orthopedic doc did a temporary numbing of the nerves in my lower back. I felt like a million bucks! I took the Roubaix out for 22 miles. It took me about the same amount of time as the 15mi on the S40.

Here's my stab at your questions.
I've been Cruz biking for over 10 years, starting out with a Silvio 2.0, then graduating to a V20, then acquiring a Silvio 1.0, a Freerider, a T50 and last year an S40.

Questions for the pros
* should I expect to get faster on S40?

Yes. As your skill and comfort level increases so will your average speed. Keep in mind that the S40 is in the category of sport touring bike - a nice ride in a confidence inspiring position and a downhill bomber but overall not the fastest beast out there. If you want to be faster you will need to move up to the Vendetta. That being said, on last week's club ride I was on my S40 and passing a DF rider on a fancy carbon bike heading uphilll. He exclaimed "Are you always so fast on that bike?" BTW, I'm almost 80 and yet I'm one of the faster riders on our club rides.

* in a few weeks, the temps here will be very hot (>100F) Any comments on the Cruzbike vent seat?

I use a Ventist on my V and while it's comfortable it really doesn't keep your back from sweating. I tried it on my S40 but found that I like the stock cushion better.

* is there any way to make this bike lighter? It is literally 2x the weight of my carbon bikes.

Probably not much you can do about that except to trade out the wheels for carbon ones. I switched to TPU tubes on both my S40 (stock wheels) and V (carbon wheels).

* I hang my carbon bikes on the wall using a front wheel hook. How do you guys store your Cruzbikes?

Have you tried hanging it by the back wheel?

* Is it possible to ride hands free? Or, will I eventually be able to grab a water bottle and take a drink on the fly?

I haven't yet mastered riding hands free but I can easily ride one handed to grab a water bottle or lower my visor.

* is it possible to be nimble on the S40? It seems best suited for straight riding.

Absolutely Yes! Just keep riding and your skill level will improve.

* Last riding season, I regularly did 50-60 mile solo rides into the Sierra foothills on my Roubaix. This year, my longest S40 has been 18 miles and I was out of gas by the time I returned home. Do you think my endurance on the S40 will rival the carbon bike?

Probably your endurance will improve somewhat but remember what I said about the S40 compared to the Vendetta. I have done a 65 miler on the S but for longer rides I prefer the V. It's just faster and less taxing.

* How does the S40 climb hills vs. traditional bikes?

Pretty good. As I said I can pass some DF riders uphill but given a contest between equal riders the one on a lightweight DF bike would come out ahead. I say that a Cruzbke may not be the best overall climber but it's better, IMO, than any other recumbent.

* as mentioned above, I struggle with starting on flat ground. Is starting going uphill possible?

That can be tough on any bike. On a Cruzbike you have the added difficulty of counteracting the turning of the front wheel with your arms and not applying so much pressure to the pedals to cause wheel slip. Truth be told, it's probably tougher on Cruzbike - more in the Zen Master Cruzbiker level if the grade is really steep - easier to do on a moderate grade.

Thanks for any advice.

Just keep at it. The smiles will come.

Kirby in Chowchilla

 

[Boreen bimbler]

The short answer.
I've had my S40 2 years. The more you ride it the better it gets. Mine is set up for comfort not speed but tight maneuvering and one handed things are now a breeze. There are pro's and cons vs DF bikes but that works both ways. You wont be spending the day down the skatepark but you'll get home with very few aches and pains, just maybe a sweaty back (I need a ventisit).
I can't compare speed as I got mine due to health issues that give me pain and fatigue and can only do about 10% of the riding I used to. If I hadn't got the recumbent I'd not be riding at all.