Let's talk front wheel removal

[ratz]

Ok 2.x owners. What are your tips for remove the front wheel without the front end falling apart; derailleur and chain get all twisted up and general winding up with a disaster on your hands?

I'm finding that I have to:

1. turn the bike upside down and rest in on the handbars and the seat.
2. Carefully hold the derailleur, the fork, and the stay in my right hand.
3. Remove the skewer
4. super super carefully remove the wheel form the fork and chain
5. quickly insert the skewer to prevent everything from falling to pieces.

While it can be done it's rough and I don't cherish the idea of doing this on the road side in a ditch. I can do it; but Mrs Ratz would be swearing like a sailor in the ditch and throwing things.

I plan to find some sort of glue to fix the derailleur hanger to the frame; I tried super glue but it wasn't strong enough.

Maybe carry some rubber straps to hold things together?

 

[Charles.Plager]

but Mrs Ratz would be

but Mrs Ratz would be swearing like a sailor in the ditch and throwing things.

I think I'm just a bad person: I really did chuckle when I read this.

 

[Eric Winn]

After you do it a bunch it

After you do it a bunch it gets way easier.

• RD cage locks are your best friend
• If you have a flat, hard surface just pull it all apart as you say and set the forks down on the said surface. It will sit fairly stable this way.
• I always pop the RD hanger out, especially to take advantage of above
• If not a roadside emergency, take your bike maintenance stand with you if you are expecting to take the wheel on and off - for example for transport in the back of your vehicle the way I do.

-Eric

 

[BentBierz]

Eric,
I know you are right

Eric,

I know you are right about practice making it easier but, that said, it just seems like it is more frustrating than it really should be. I don't like having to remove a rear wheel (rear drive of course) on any bike, especially when in the rain, busy roadway with no real convenient place to work on the bike, etc. but the Silvio would certainly bring the anxiety level up a few notches.

As I have said before, I marvel at some of the features on the Silvio 2.0 and then I shake my head at things like the RD hanger, water bottle locations (lack of or, as I have been reading on the 2.1, leg interference), etc.

Still, we faithfully soldier on.

 

[Eric Winn]

Hey Larry. Now don't get me

Hey Larry. Now don't get me wrong. I didn't say I liked it just that it gets easier with practice.

I like Bob's tea leaves suggestion of figuring out a way to make this whole process much easier....

-Eric

 

[Bruce B]

Unfortunately, Practice

Ratz,

I have had my Silvio 1.0 for 4 years and have had to repair too many flats here in El Paso, Texas. Goat Heads are the most frequent culprit!!

With time, your mind's eye begins to orient the derailleur and chain correctly while replacing the wheel. As Eric Winn has said, the process is fiddly.

This past winter I replaced my running gear with SRAM components to include a double chain wheel and short cranks. Eric wrote that he had good results with the SRAM X-9 Type 2 rear derailleur with "Cage Lock" on his Vendetta. Because road and mountain SRAM components can be mixed I chose to install the X-9 Type 2.

What an improvement. With the derailleur arm in "locked mode" the whole process of chain and wheel removal and replacement is much quicker and simpler.

Good luck,

Bruce

 

[timt]

I've had 2 front flats in the last week

I've had 2 front flats in the last week.
The first was on the road. I disassembled, swapped the tube, put the wheel back on and fiddled for quite a while trying to figure out how the chain somehow ended up on the wrong side of the cable. I finally got it together somehow, but I don't know how.
The second was repaired in the basement after finding the tire flat in the garage. Same process, but this time I couldn't figure out a combination of twists and tumbles to get everything lined up right. So I disconnected the chain, put the RD in place, reconnected the chain.

Now I'm carrying my master link pliers in the pannier, at least until there's less debris on the road or I figure out the right combination to reassemble the RD. Maybe having the tool with me will keep the flats away. http://www.parktool.com/product/master-link-pliers-mlp-1-2

And the folks at the bike shop didn't seem to understand why I wanted a KMC or SRAM chain instead of Shimano.

 

[ratz]

Perhaps a figure 8 wrap



I'm thinking (Yes that's dangerous.) I'm going to carry a small roll of double sided velcro tie strapping. Get it at your local electrician supply store for pennies on the foot.

When it is time to change the tire; I'm going to figure-8 wrap the fork end; that should hold the assembly together. The wrap is small and light weight; shouldn't take up much room in the supply bag. Then for the derailleur hanger I'm going to gorilla glue (two part epoxy) that sucker in place.

Now all of you getting flats multiple times a week. Go get some stans sealeant and an injector and put it in your tubes; it does work and it works well in tubs. If you don't like that get a can of "vittoria pit stop"; granted I just went tubeless; but good old pit stop has fixed more tires for me in 30 seconds over the years; I always have a can with me on unsupported rides. I have a can in the glue box; last fall I stop and fixed a roadies flat for him in under a minute when I saw him blow a tire with a storm baring down on us; you shoule have seen the look on his face; old guy with a trike on his roof pulls over to show you how to fix a flat before the storm kills you.

 

[Eric Winn]

When I transport my Vendetta

When I transport my Vendetta in the back of my Equinox, I take both wheels off and put the loose ends of the chain and RD (with hanger staying attached to the RD) into a gallon ziplock bag, an old rag, and a velcro tie to hold it against the chainstay.

If you glue your RD hanger in place, you won't be able to rest the bike on the front drops without some sort of adapter.

QR goes back in place to hold the fork and chainstay juncture together then the bike sits on the front drops. I use another velcro tie to hold the crank in place so it doesn't spin during transport.

That old memory foam pillow chunk of foam is overkill - I was experimenting. I've carried the bike strapped down with the front drops directly on the carpeted back cargo space without any ill effect.



-Eric

 

[trplay]

Didn't we already discuss this?

"Geez Louise" In the words of Hillary "what difference does it make" if the hanger pops out! Put it back in when the right time comes. velcro, pliers, Tape, egad! The only thing you have to focus on is not twisting the chain and cable. Don't turn the dang bike up-side down making this easy to do. Simply stand the bike up on the forks and gently lay the DR on the ground without twisting. Put it back on when the wheel is repaired. Keep it simple and simple it will be.

 

[John Tolhurst]

Yes, the hanger falling out

Yes, the hanger falling out of its recess was a design error. I'll fix it next time those parts are made, so the RD is a press fit, like a bearing.

When I shake my head, it is at the hidden complexities of the design problems.

I'd like the chainstay to have an actual dropout, but the rotation from long to short leg is so much that the dropout shape would be a large V, and then the RD hanger would have to attach some other way. So, its not a trivial design question.

Leg room issues occur only when you use chainstay extensions longer than recommended! The easy way out is a steering tube extender, there are a few off the shelf types available.

Bottle cage mounts are very easy to put on - if you just added them to the frame under the seat, and located the bottles in the air flow. I didn't take that soft option. My design solution is in the form of a small two-bottle cage behind the head rest as pictured in Maria's RAAM bike. That solution IMPROVES the aerodynamics. I have been using that myself, it works pretty well and I have been looking at the shop drawings for it. We have called this a Quiver, as you reach behind your head to grab the bottles.

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Tim - So I disconnected the

Tim - So I disconnected the chain, put the RD in place, reconnected the chain.

I too found that disconnecting the chain makes it much easier to replace the front wheel, I will be carrying my park-tool chain pliers with me.

As a matter of fact, I had a front flat today - and for the life of me did not want to remove the front wheel, so I pulled the tube out from the tire (with the wheel still connected to the fork) hoping to find the tube puncture. I've done this before on other bikes. But this time could not feel or see where the air was leaking, it was such a tiny slow leak. I put tube back in tire, pumped it back up, it would hold for a bout 5 miles, put more air in. Only had to do this twice on a 10 miles back to car.

 

[ratz]

Well it makes a difference when the stress is up

Trplay,

I understand I'm focusing on the worst; but now is the time to deal with that in the off season, but I do get you; and I do want it to be simple and simple in the field under stress. So if I point out it's a problem then John and company can think about data we provide for future fixes; just like he pointed out, the press fit will likely be really nice.

Like you I can cope with it; but I have kids coming up behind me that are going to get these bikes as we get new ones; I want them to be able to be beginners and cope. Also as I said Mrs Ratz is actually smarter than me; but she's also intolerant of design problems (graphics designers are often design snobs). So if I fix this pitfall with glue and a strategy I don't have to listen to her mutter about it, even if the cussing is entertaining.

So back to the data, While build and swapping wheels on both of our builds I have had 4 times now I have had the derailleur slip from my hand and the chain got snake twisted. That is what I see as the worst thing that can happen; as it can bend the chain; and I have already scratch the derailluer really bad and torqued the pulleys in a not so exciting fashion; so anchoring the hanger solves that problem. As for keeping the fork together; I found these tiny "Gear Tie" brand rubber ties.I didn't know them made these tiny ones 12 inches long. They should work nicely, don't weigh anything and will be minor to carry in the bag.

In the end this will benefit me to solve; I don't ride my good wheel set on the trainer; so every time it rains I may have to do two wheel changes; If this is easier I will be less resistant to getting on the trainer in the first place.

 

[KiwiGuy]

Quiver becoming available?

Hi John

I really like your 'Quiver' approach. As you say, much more elegant design approach than mounting the bottles under the seat.

Are you likely to offer this as a product (perhaps also with a small area to stash a puncture repair kit, mobile phone and jacket) for use on the both the Silvio and Vendetta?

Kind regards...

 

[John Tolhurst]

Yes Blair, 
the Quiver will

Yes Blair,
the Quiver will complement the Vendetta and Silvio. It will hold two bottles and a few bits and pieces.

Our tactic here is to look to design only those accessories that are really needed. We'll never make a light or a bag for example.

 

[John Tolhurst]

If you want a work around, I

If you want a work around, I suggest a simple cable tie around the dropouts. This will hold all in place while you do the wheel removal.

 

[Ivan]

Didn't we already have this

Didn't we already have this conversation??
http://cruzbike.com/silvio-drive-wheel-removal

KiwiGuy, if you like "quiver" then my configuration provides all what you asked for using a Minoura Saddle Cage Holder and a Lezyne Flow Cage. My Topeak saddle bag holds 3L when expanded. Albeit this setup is limited to one bottle so I also have under seat cages. But I also have an excellent tail light mounting position.

 

[Charles.Plager]

 You can try carrying a

You can try carrying a recloseable cable tie with you and just putting it on when needed.

 

[super slim]

What about insertion of

What about insertion of the ?skewer from right hand side and not fully removing the skewer, so it holds the hanger bracket and derailuer in place when the bike is upside down.

I think this was in the original Silvio V 1.0 instructions published a LONG time ago in 2008.

Super Slim

 

[John Tolhurst]

You don't need a re-useable

You don't need a re-useable cable tie, it just stays there all the time. Until you wreak your hanger and need to install a new one.