Lower leg pain--outer calf

[TransAm]

Since transitioning to a V20 last year (due to a pinched nerve in my neck) I have been held back by lower leg pain, specifically the outer calf muscle that overlies the fibula. It is below the knee, so not IT Band or a knee issue. It is well above the ankle, so not tendon pain. The muscle is sore to the touch, so it is not referred pain. The pain is about equal on both sides, so it's not due to an injury.

The pain generally starts ramping up right after I start riding, forcing me to back off to keep it down to a dull roar. This also means walking up most climbs, so my average speed is pathetic. I have not been able to do a century on the V20 yet--on my road bike I could bang out a non-stop century any time without even thinking about it first.

I figured it was just an adaptation issue that would go away as I rode more, but it didn't, so I couldn't. I recently tried to ride with a group, but as soon as I started chasing them up the first hill, the pain ramped right up to 11, and I had to drop. I think this experience helped me figure out the problem, though.

A related issue was that I never got comfortable pedaling over 20mph. Any time I tried to pedal at speed, the bike would feel unstable. It wasn't pedal-steer per se, because it happened even if I was soft pedaling. Just the pedaling motion caused the instability, even if I wasn't pushing hard. So in addition to walking up the hills, I had to coast down without pedaling.

I made a simple, cheap adjustment to the bike, and just completed my first pain-free ride, at my highest average speed yet. I could confidently pedal over 20mph. My climbing ability was much better too. So hopefully I have the problem licked, and can start doing longer, faster rides.

Any guesses what the problem and the fix were?

 

[DavidCH]

Well , my bet was let the boom out a little and adjust the cleats. Probably add foam for shoulder and lumbar support.

 

[benphyr]

I have nothing better than guesses. Near/far limits of pedal stroke causing use of the limits of contraction/extension of those muscles (I don't know what motion is associated with those muscles) and adjusting the boom out/in a touch to keep from over using that muscle, or similarly widening the stance by widening the Q factor with pedal extenders.

But you are toying with us, I can't wait to hear for real what the problem and its solution are.

 

[TransAm]

...widening the stance by widening the Q factor with pedal extenders.

Ding, Ding, Ding!!! We have a winner!

Yes, I widened the Q-factor with pedal extenders:

Amazon.com : SUNLITE Pedal Extenders : Sports & Outdoors

I got both the 21mm and 27.5mm to experiment. I tried the 27.5mm first, but that felt too wide, so I quickly switched to the 21mm. After a mile, the pain started, but only in my right leg this time, so I put the 27.5mm back on the right side only. This makes sense because just my right foot is duck foot (I usually have to keep my right cleat all the way inboard to get heel clearance on the crank). And with that, the pain went away!

The root cause of the problem is trying to get my thunder thighs around the head tube makes me bowl legged with a standard Q-factor. So the small muscles on the outside of my calf were working against the larger leg muscles to counteract pedal steer. Those calf muscles are the ones that keep you from falling to the left if you stand on your right foot, and vice versa. They needed to pull my foot up on the outside to counteract the angle of my lower leg coming inboard to meet the pedals. That's also what caused the instability, which got worse with increasing speed, so I had to stop pedaling around 20mph.

The problem got worse once the weather got warmer. I also developed a squeak twice per pedal revolution. It was actually more of a squeal than a squeak or a creak. The solution to that actually exacerbated the Q-factor problem. So any guesses what that was?

 

[benphyr]

Pedal cleat interface? And lubricating it? Or trimming a little of the rubber if you use mountain bike shoes and it was rubbing.

 

[Mathew Fy]

So any guesses what that was?

I love this game. I have to guess bottom bracket clamp.

 

[TransAm]

So, when this first started to happen, my first thought was a new mechanical problem in the drivetrain because it was definitely synchronized with my pedaling. But the sound was like nothing I had ever heard from a bottom bracket before.

I took a while before I realized I had been riding in tights all fall and winter, and had just started wearing shorts when the long winter finally ended. So now the skin of my inner thighs was rubbing directly against the frame causing a squeal. This exacerbated the leg pain, because now I was pedaling even more bowl-legged to try to clear the frame.

I was planning to get a spider based power meter using Rotor ALDHU 155mm cranks. But now I'm thinking I should get the Garmin Rally XC200 Dual Sensing Power Meter Pedals that can measure true left/right balance and platform center offset on each side. I think I will need that to get the Q-factor balanced on each side due to the asymmetry in my legs. They are expensive, but that could be cheap insurance against bigger problems later....

 

[CoolBreeze]

If your thighs rub against metal, you can try applying Moleskin in that area of the frame. It’s sold in the footcare section of pharmacies, is self-adhesive, thin, easily cut to shape and soft against skin.

 

[bladderhead]

DF riders are always wining about the pain and discomfort their bikes cause them, which causes recumbent riders great amusement. Do not let them know about your chafing legs. You will never live it down.

 

[TransAm]

I think I just need longer shorts. Amazon is bringing them Wednesday....

 

[TransAm]

But now I'm thinking I should get the Garmin Rally XC200 Dual Sensing Power Meter Pedals that can measure true left/right balance and platform center offset on each side.

I decided not to pull the trigger on these pedals. They are $1200, and the best discount I could find was only 5% (which ended today). To get the pedaling dynamics data, I would also need a new Garmin head unit. My Wahoo and old Garmin are not compatible. So that just pushed the price tag too high.

I got the last pair of ISSI Trail III pedals with the +12mm axle instead. I also got the last ISSI type III +6mm axle kit. Or so I hope....

 

[benphyr]

I found this short article on the ISSI website interesting: https://rideissi.com/articles/stance-width-and-why-its-important

 

[TransAm]

So here's the latest. I moved both cleats all the way inboard to widen the stance width and went back to 22mm spacers on both sides. Test ride was OK with no pain.

I also ordered some 17mm Ti spacers to try to bring this in some more. But the ultimate goal is to try to get rid of the spacers. I think this is still at least partly an adaptation issue, but the initial stance was just too narrow to adapt.

Apparently I didn't get the last set of +12mm ISSI III triple bearing trail pedals, because my order shipped, but they are still showing in stock:

iSSi Trail III +12 Pedal-Black (kylesbikes.com)

They are discontinued, so if you want to get some, don't wait. I got 15% off with coupon code: trigeek.

For the chub rub issue, I got some 2 in 1 shorts:

Amazon.com : BALEAF Men's 2 in 1 Running Athletic Shorts 5" Quick Dry Workout Shorts with Liner Zipper Pocket Black/Fluorescent Yellow Size XXXL : Clothing

These have a longer tight fitting inner liner with a slightly shorter and looser outer short. I could just wear bike shorts with the chamois cut out, but that might be a bit too risqué for riding on a non-closed course. These are better for casual riding if you want to be out in public off the bike.

Test ride was OK with no skin contact on the frame. The outer short rides up when laid out on the bike, but that works out because it shows more yellow for visibility in traffic. The yellow matches my late model V20.

 

[cpml123]

For the chub rub issue, I got some 2 in 1 shorts:

Amazon.com : BALEAF Men's 2 in 1 Running Athletic Shorts 5" Quick Dry Workout Shorts with Liner Zipper Pocket Black/Fluorescent Yellow Size XXXL : Clothing

These have a longer tight fitting inner liner with a slightly shorter and looser outer short.

I have these shorts. https://www.elevenpine.com/
It works well but has gotten overpriced these days. I got them when they were $60.

 

[ed72]

I was going to suggest trying mid-sole cleat placement, this would essentially/mostly take the muscles from the knee downwards out of the equation.

WRT shorts, I had bought some of the often recommended shorts in the bent community. I hate them. The legs are way too short and also in the waist. Yes, they have no diaper pad. I now often ride in cheapo "Crew" racing shorts as in rowing. No pad. They extend sufficiently towards the knee and are high enough in the waist. They are not terribly aerodynamic but for just normal rides, they fit the bill. I also backpack in them. They are cheap enough that getting worn out from the ventist pad isn't such a concern.

 

[TransAm]

So here's an update. I got the +12mm black trail pedals for ~$100, a +6mm axle kit for $50, and a set of yellow trail pedals for $50. I swapped the +12mm axles into the yellow pedals and put them on the V20, and then put the +6mm axles in the black pedals and put them on my road bike. The +12mm seems to be enough added stance width to avoid the leg pain on the V20. I think I prefer the +6mm on the road bike too.

I used the trail pedals because I like a platform around the pedal. If you don't find the clip right away on startup, you can pedal against the platform until you get going, and then clip in later. I usually ride a single-sided road SPD pedal, but ISSI doesn't have those, so the trail pedal is the next closest thing, just double sided.

I wanted the yellow pedals for the V20 for a little extra forward visibility. The bottoms of my shoes are black, so the yellow provides some contrast. And when pedaling the movement increases visibility too. Here's what they look like with the shoes (note the extended axles):

 

[TransAm]

Another update for those folloing along (or finding this in the future). The outer calf pain was resolved with the +12mm pedals, but I got a new pain a little lower, between the calf musce and the ankle bone, also on the outside. It was mostly on the right side, so I put the +22mm spacer on that side and it resolved the pain.

So now I think I will look to put a 73mm crank axle and a 68/73mm BB to get an extra 5mm of Q-factor, probably the Rotor ALDHU. Has anyone done this on a Cruzbike?