Midfoot Cleat Adapters

[RojoRacing]

Saw these come across my newsfeed today, I'd suspected someone had to already be making these but I've never looked for or come across them.

https://mid-foot-cycling.com/?fbclid=IwAR1esZ46S2wmbcP6LevSLeIcWdeUD9DcHbqV8vHAyhMYuUXvLtRcm2BHpuU

 

[Beano]

Not for me.

Heel drop is important as this allows ankling which can lead to a better pedal stroke.

And cleat position getting nearer to the arch of your foot....nah.

 

[LarryOz]

Not for me.

Heel drop is important as this allows ankling which can lead to a better pedal stroke.

And cleat position getting nearer to the arch of your foot....nah.

Cool Rojo - I have made my own in the past out of aluminum - these look nice (a little pricey, but they look well made)
If you have hot-foot and this gets rid of it - they are worth it - IMHO ankling does not do much for me, and I feel the pedal stroke is better with cleat in mid-foot position, especially in the recumbent position. Everyone is different though - some like it , some don't

 

[Greg S]

Thanks for the lead. I've an old injury that's aggravated by having cleats farther forward. Road shoes have their "farthest back" position further forward than mtb shoes so I use Speedplay's with their setback plate on road shoes but I've got a set of Asioma power pedals (that I really like) that are Look cleats only so I've just been living with it and only using them on shorter rides.

These plates fix that problem - cool!

And no ankling here. No perceived or measured benefit from it.

 

[rx7mark]

Saw these come across my newsfeed today, I'd suspected someone had to already be making these but I've never looked for or come across them.

https://mid-foot-cycling.com/?fbclid=IwAR1esZ46S2wmbcP6LevSLeIcWdeUD9DcHbqV8vHAyhMYuUXvLtRcm2BHpuU

Thanks RojoRacing,
I had to hack my Sidi shoes to create my own mid-sole cleat position, this would have been way easier with these adaptors. Mid-sole works great for me due to foot issues from 40 years of running and prior surgery on my big toe region that left some nerve damage. The mid-sole cleats plus a Cruzbike recumbent has allowed me to return to biking after a 25 year layoff, after a prior back injury. Like others I am not sure that there is a great benefit, but no real harm for long distance biking.

I find I like my cleat just forward (1/4 -1/2 inch) of the center of my foot, this gives me just a slight amount of calf and achilles engagement and avoids my injury site.

Mark

 

[cranky cyclist]

There is research that shows ankling and pulling up on the upstroke is unnecessary and inefficient.
Don’t you need to Pull Up on the Backstroke?
This is a great question and one that we get quite often, or one that we will hear from people interested in the pedal, but confused about what they have heard in the past.

The short answer is no. The Korff (et al. Med Sci Sports Exerc 2007; 39:991-995) and Mornieux (et al. Int J Sports Med 2008; 29:817-822) Cycling Efficiency Studies clearly show that pulling up on the backstroke produces less power and burns more energy than simply driving hard on the downstroke and letting the trail leg come up just hard enough to get ready for the next hard downstroke push.

The video in this post shows a rider who tried to prove that he needed to pull up on the backstroke and instead proved that he was more efficient when he couldn’t pull up on the backstroke.

In all my years of looking, I have found no studies or evidence that supports the theory that you need to pull up on the backstroke and I have an open challenge to anyone who can show me some

This was just a theory that sounded great but now that we can actually look at what is happening during the pedal stroke the evidence clearly shows that pulling up on the backstroke is not the “right” way to pedal.

 

[Beano]

And the non sequitur award goes to...

 

[benphyr]

(Whether the earlier post’s claim about pulling up is correct I don’t know and probably could be its own thread but)
the usefulness of this thread is that for those who want a mid-sole cleat location for whatever reason, individual physiology, injuries, comfort, aerodynamics, preferences, etc., this company now makes an off the shelf adapter - an easy solution for Look type road cleat users that previously was unavailable.

 

[bladderhead]

I have been a midfooter for years, with my home-made heel-clips, and suddenly everybody is talking about midfoot. The only thing I cannot do is pull on the backstroke. Apparently I do not need to do so anyway. So that is one upgrade I do not have to buy.

 

[LarryOz]

There is research that shows ankling and pulling up on the upstroke is unnecessary and inefficient.
Don’t you need to Pull Up on the Backstroke?
This is a great question and one that we get quite often, or one that we will hear from people interested in the pedal, but confused about what they have heard in the past.

The short answer is no. The Korff (et al. Med Sci Sports Exerc 2007; 39:991-995) and Mornieux (et al. Int J Sports Med 2008; 29:817-822) Cycling Efficiency Studies clearly show that pulling up on the backstroke produces less power and burns more energy than simply driving hard on the downstroke and letting the trail leg come up just hard enough to get ready for the next hard downstroke push.

The video in this post shows a rider who tried to prove that he needed to pull up on the backstroke and instead proved that he was more efficient when he couldn’t pull up on the backstroke.

In all my years of looking, I have found no studies or evidence that supports the theory that you need to pull up on the backstroke and I have an open challenge to anyone who can show me some

This was just a theory that sounded great but now that we can actually look at what is happening during the pedal stroke the evidence clearly shows that pulling up on the backstroke is not the “right” way to pedal.

This was so interesting - especially the cyclist denial of what was actually the truth.
I am not sure if it is different for bents, but I have noticed that when I am doing a very hard ride where my thighs are highly loaded from pushing extremely hard: If I stop pushing breifly (maybe 10 secs) and just pull back instead, it gives my thighs just tad of rest. I have noticed this helps me ride at this extreme high level of effort either a little bit harder or a little bit longer. Has anyone else had a similar experience. What I don't know is if I underwent the same scientific study as we just read about if I really as less efficient after it is all said and done. If so, I hope I would not embarrass myself by denying the truth! haha

 

[Greg S]

I am not sure if it is different for bents, but I have noticed that when I am doing a very hard ride where my thighs are highly loaded from pushing extremely hard: If I stop pushing breifly (maybe 10 secs) and just pull back instead, it gives my thighs just tad of rest. I have noticed this helps me ride at this extreme high level of effort either a little bit harder or a little bit longer.

I've not done a whole lot of maximal efforts on the 'bent but I have noticed the same thing.

I think it's analogous to getting out of the saddle briefly on a long climb on the DF. You use different muscle groups briefly and give the muscles you've been using hard a brief respite. I don't think you end up generating any more power but it does help you (or at least me) maintain a hard effort a little bit longer.

 

[DavidJL]

In the recumbent position, it's pulling back rather than up, so this could explain getting 'bent legs.

 

[ed72]

I have been midsole since 2014. I have not measured any power loss up to FTP but I did lose peak power aka sprinting power using midsole cleat position. If I was young and on an upwrong doing crit races still, I would not be midsole. I found midsole to be less fatiguing and less impactful to knees over long distances (say more than 200 miles). The studies are clear, there is no benefit to pulling back or up unless you like iliopsoas pain. YMMV. Anyone with knee, calf or lower back pain, try midsole and don't pull...PUSH. Just sharing my experience, not a non sequiturian argument or insult.

 

[Greg S]

And an other midfoot alternative: https://www.biomac.biz/

 

[bazzawill]

Saw these come across my newsfeed today, I'd suspected someone had to already be making these but I've never looked for or come across them.

https://mid-foot-cycling.com/?fbclid=IwAR1esZ46S2wmbcP6LevSLeIcWdeUD9DcHbqV8vHAyhMYuUXvLtRcm2BHpuU

Thanks for this, I have been meaning to try and modify my spare shoes to midfoot but never got around to it, purchased this immediately

And an other midfoot alternative: https://www.biomac.biz/

These also look very cool, will keep them bookmarked for when I need a new pair, previously the midfoot shoes I have found were ridiculously expensive.

 

[bladderhead]

I read somewhere that this thing about the balls of your feet is a myth born of fear of toe-strike.

I ride recumbents and I ride on my insteps not my balls.

 

[Götz]

Saw these come across my newsfeed today, I'd suspected someone had to already be making these but I've never looked for or come across them.

Hi RojoRacing, Google analytics reports that lots of forum readers visited our recently. Thanks for your interest! However, current inquiries tempt me to clearify: An average foot of a male cyclist/recumbent pilot measures between 27 to 30cm or US 9-12 (hope this conversion is correct). The adapters displayed in your initial topic wouldn't allow for more than 24MM of setback from the first third of the cyclist shoe's sole, therefore they don't even come near to the middle of a rider's foot, in brief: they've got nothing to do with mid foot or mid sole at all but leave you in the middle of nowhere.However, for long distance riding and racing pushing longer than 50% of your stroke in positive, forward zone is what it takes to persevere and deliver a strong performance without risking your joints and tendons.
Sum up: Smart ad, no substance though.
Anyone interested in REAL mid sole cleats (and maybe shoes) is warmly invited to contact blokes like Steve Hogg from Australia, Brett Sutton from Switzerland or my humble self from Germany. Together with Joe Friel the beforementioned guys are the experts who kept the concept and principles of an improved cycling stroke up for the last decades and eventually made it possible that today neat shoes are available, be it in inexpensive, durable nylon or in extra lightweight carbon. Many thanks and all my respect to them!

 

[Götz]

This was so interesting - especially the cyclist denial of what was actually the truth.
I am not sure if it is different for bents, but I have noticed that when I am doing a very hard ride where my thighs are highly loaded from pushing extremely hard: If I stop pushing briefly (maybe 10 secs) and just pull back instead, it gives my thighs just tad of rest. I have noticed this helps me ride at this extreme high level of effort either a little bit harder or a little bit longer. Has anyone else had a similar experience. What I don't know is if I underwent the same scientific study as we just read about if I really as less efficient after it is all said and done. If so, I hope I would not embarrass myself by denying the truth! haha

Lets be honest, folks: mid-sole cycling shoes were patented stuff - until 2020. Now since March '20 its free for any shoemaker to position the feet wherever he wants - to his clients' benefits. WHY? Cycling is a bipolar movement (looking at the pedal stroke from a sideward perspective) with its two peaks around 3 o'clock and a minimum power output around 12 and 6 o'clock. This being said makes it clear that anyone who reduces the loss at these poles (12 and 6) and lengthens output around 3 improves his rider's performance almost as much as aerodynamics or a low(er) weight in climbs would do. As bent riders benefit from a very low drag the only obstacle they suffer badly is the enormous weight of their bicycle, especially when going uphill and this no matter whether they are lightweight themselves or not.
Now the shorter the interval between high (down stroke) load and the reduced power output close to 12 and 6 the less they'll have to accelerate, therefore the less fatigue for their thighs will kick in. Less, this means around 10% less(!) when placing their shoes mid sole over the pedal axle which is quite dramatic.
NOTE that it doesn't mean that you will ride notably faster from scratch, but more economic - lots more economic - especially over climbs which are so detrimental for you folks.
During the last twenty years of making shoes for people like you I had the pleasure to meet so many customers - smart ones, bright ones and dumb fish - and was honored to learn my bit which is listen to everyone for he has HIS truth. Also I learned that many bents do not allow for cleats mounted mid sole which is a pity as for you as well as for triathletes I consider it to be essential that you had the opportunity to test, try and have the joy of decision in YOUR hands - WITHOUT the dragging experience of taking out a drill and messing around with bolts and T-nuts. Since Millenium its free, so enjoy!

 

[Götz]

Thanks for this, I have been meaning to try and modify my spare shoes to midfoot but never got around to it, purchased this immediately




These also look very cool, will keep them bookmarked for when I need a new pair, previously the mid foot shoes I have found were ridiculously expensive.

Thank you for publishing the expertise of your market research, bazzawill. Its right, apart from carbon shoes, custom or off the line, cycling shoes with
cleats placed mid sole were hard to get and: highly expensive. Took almost twenty years to develop something accurate which can be obtained world wide.

 

[Simon]

Another convert to arch cleats here. Years of abuse (mountain biking and hillwalking) have meant my right knee in particular is not very stable and I find I have much more control and therefore am able to exert a lot more power without pain with arch cleats. I followed Bill Berrere’s advice (he of the Recumbent One Facebook group) and fitted mine 40% of foot length forward from the heel. He also recommended peddling with toes pointed down and I’ve found this means that there is less tendency for my ankle to flex as the forces go more or less directly straight up through my tibia and I'm not using my calves at all (it also means there is no stress on a weak Achilles tendon I have in my left foot).