More fun with wheels -Aero style

[ratz]

Bob, on the Schwalbe website they claim a 5.5watt saving in going from Ultremo ZX to ONE Tubeless!
Have you noticed the difference, and would 5.5 W be measurable with a power meter while pedaling?

We have 6 Tier 2 TRI guys in my city area they live our here to have access to the windy training roads; and 4 CRIT racers. of those 9 guys and 1 gal, 7 have made the change to the One's and the word is they aren't going back. Only 2 are riding tubeless; and are on year 2 of tubeless and very happy. We are running Bontrager's tubeless system so we still have Bontrager TLR3 and TLR4 rubber on the road. When those wear out the One's will get a go; because the TLR4 is pricey and hard to get at times even if Trek is only 4 hours from here. Also point to remember is we are testing stuff these year for when it matters in coming years. So if you find anything else that should be test tell me to put it on the list; we'll get to it eventually if it has merit for our plans.

Here's my thoughts on the state of tubeless.

1. If you suck at changing inner tubes stop here tubeless isn't for you.
2. If you are great at changing inner tubes remember back to how long it took you to be great, and continue this list.
3. Have you ever successfully patched an inner tube and then ridden that tire for 100's of miles? If yes continue, If no because you are too awesome at #2 to bother patching continue ; if it's too much work to patch a tire, stop here tubeless isn't for you.
4. Do you refuse to carry a spare inner tube because it's too much weight; stop tubeless isn't for you.
5. Do you carry a entire spare tire with you on rides over 100 miles, continue tubeless is for you.
6. Are you willing to spend two days in the garage cussing while you learn, then continue.

Basically when you are learning; they are messy, I walked in the house my second try covered head to toe in sealant (that's happened 3 times) it was a major WHID moment, if you get a major blow out you still need to have an inner tube with you; you will still have the occasional flat the will have you walking or calling for a ride; a 4 inch construction spike is still a 4 inch construction spike.

So why do it?

1. No pinch flats running lower pressure so you can get optimal rolling resistance
2. Tiny spike punchers like glass, thrushes, goat heads, and small nails; self seal while riding; bigger cuts seal after you stop an wait a minute or two; then just pump back up.
3. lower pressure mean smoother ride on chipseal
4. No inner tube rot on your spares inventory
5. No high impact blow outs; but you can still dent a rim nicely.
6. Tires don't blow off the wheels; most flat deflate slowly and leave you in control of the bike;

For point of reference both Silvios' are tubeless; and the Vendetta is tubeless; the Quest are tubes and will remain tubes forever just no point there to bother with it not enough gain.

if competing at any event when possible I'm still going to have spare wheels and a spare bike ready to go; changing wheels or bikes is still always going to be faster.

Lastly if you are turning a mag trainer; the Durano Skid is still the best tire; that thing was build for a FIXIE and it holds up better. See Lief for the facts of running the wrong tire at the wrong pressure on the mag trainer.

 

[super slim]

So Disposable Overalls, and goggles are recommended for the first two tyres!!!!

After getting a cut and bulge in my front 26"*1.3" Conti Sports Contact tyre, on my Quest, for three days while travelling south to San Francisco, and trying every bike in the small towns and 5 in SF, I bought two slick 1.3" tyres, 1 as a spare, and NOW always ride with 2 spare tubes, patch kit, and a spare tyre.

In Adelaide EVERY bike shop had 26"*1.3" slicks, as this is what the bike couriers all used in 2011! NOT so in USA, where they use 700C*35 tyres.

There was 14 riders on the West Coast tour from Canada to Mexico, and 5 needed the loan of a spare 700C*23 tyre, that the guy riding with me had.

http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/road-bike-reviews/schwalbe-one-tubeless-2014

 

[BentAero]

Basically when you are learning; they are messy, I walked in the house my second try covered head to toe in sealant (that's happened 3 times)

Bob, Bob, Bob... (said slowly shaking head from side to side) You are clearly guilty of unlawful reappropriation of tire sealant. The sealant goes inside the tire, not outside!

When I put the Hutchinson Sector's on the I-9 wheels I mounted the tires onto the rims, then inflated them 'dry'. That's the trick; don't put the sealant in until the tire is fully seated. Once the tire was seated on the rim, then I opened the valve core (letting the air out) and slid the little clear hose over the valve stem. Squeezed in two ounces of Orange Seal through the core, remove hose, reinflate tire, go ride. Never spilled a drop of sealant on either wheel.

Granted, you have to actually ride the bike to risk a flat, but knock on wood (my head) I've never had a flat with the Hutchinson Sector 28's and Orange Seal.
Btw, they lose about 10 psi in a week.

 

[ratz]

I opened the valve core

What....? you have to open the value stem to prevent the hose from flying off the injector?
Next you'll tell me that back pressure in the tire is a bad thing and causes the sealant to flow the wrong direction.

So Disposable Overalls, and goggles are recommended for the first two tyres!!!!

Definitely; especially if you are "redoing" things to make them better and can't dry inflate the tyre like Gary suggests. Oh and don't rush


On the Sealant side here's a trick. I'm running Stans 2oz and Bontrager 2oz; Stands does a nice job on bigger cuts; the but the bontrager is better at the small holes. Mrs. Ratz has my latest and most experience set of tire installs. Those wheels hold air for weeks on end. Makes me want to redo mine sooner.... then I think of the mess and consider it good enough

 

[super slim]

"It is said" on the Internet, that the slimy stuff inside the tyre needs to be replaced every 3 months!
Any photos OR Videos of how this is done???
Is this when Overalls should be worn?

 

[ratz]

"It is said" on the Internet, that the slimy stuff inside the tyre needs to be replaced every 3 months!
Any photos OR Videos of how this is done???
Is this when Overalls should be worn?

Depends on the fluid some evaporate some do not. My main problems came when move tire A from wheel X to wheel Y; forgetting on more than one occasion to remove the value core is a messy endeavor.

We also started with some 23c wheels but then got 25c when they came in stock; swamp out tires when the sealant is fresh is messy; all and all it was about the same as what it really took to get good at doing tubes. Problem is that was so long ago and it's so easy now; that this seem like a painful learning curve. Adding a compressor if you don't have one isn't a bad idea either; if you think you might remove and reinstall tires now and then. As much as I test; it sort of was a must to save grief. That expense was annoying at first; in retrospect it was a good idea.

Expect to give up 1 or 2 nice weather days to dinking and dunking in the garage to figure it all out; and you are probably set. It's just too messy to try and learn in the living room. That and the sealant is hard to get out of the carpet

 

[super slim]

Is 4 oz the normal amount to add?
How big a compressor and receiver is required?

Can it be done with a manual floor pump and a fabric tie down strap to compress the tyre so the gap to the rim is reduced?

 

[ratz]

Is 4 oz the normal amount to add?
How big a compressor and receiver is required?

Can it be done with a manual floor pump and a fabric tie down strap to compress the tyre so the gap to the rim is reduced?

Start here: http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Things_that_Roll/Tires/Tire_Sealants_2765.html

Compressor needs to be stronger than the pressure of the tire. I get away with one that can do 150psi; yes you can do it with a floor pump; There are 4 major situations:

1. Brand new tire on clean wheel; floor pump will work if the tire is a tight fit.
2. Tire reinstall; tire is a little gummy with previous sealant and the tire is looser, then compressor is handy.
3. Tire has lost air sitting in garage/storage but is still 80-90% seated in the bead; hand pump will work
4. Tire has lost air and the bead has mostly disengaged, then the compressor is handy

Fabric tie down = big olde mess of sealant. Only useful if tire is clean, new and devoid of sealant; and in that situation it's not really needed

 

[super slim]

do you take a spare clincher tyre+tube, or a tubeless tyre with you on long rides?

 

[ratz]

do you take a spare clincher tyre+tube, or a tubeless tyre with you on long rides?

I keep a inner tube in a zip lock bag down inside the Silvio frame under the seat.

 

[BentAero]

It's funny how things will come back to haunt you.
Just a couple days after teasing Ratz over his lack of sealant-filling prowess, guess who ended up with sealant all over the wheel, tire (outside), floor, pants, hands, counter top, and nose of the Miata?
The result post clean-up:

 

[ratz]

Those stands work better if you invert them and hold the wheel from the trailing side. Not a problem when the tire has pressure but if it drop down then it won't tip over. Also wrap a good amount of electrical tape around the metal where it touches the rubber to protect the tire if the pressure drops.

 

[Rick Youngblood]

The result post clean-up:

Nice pic's Gary. I've suddenly got a craving Root Beer !

Those stands work better if you invert them and hold the wheel from the trailing side. Not a problem when the tire has pressure but if it drop down then it won't tip over. Also wrap a good amount of electrical tape around the metal where it touches the rubber to protect the tire if the pressure drops.

Hmm, I'll try that.

 

[BentAero]

Those stands work better if you invert them and hold the wheel from the trailing side. Not a problem when the tire has pressure but if it drop down then it won't tip over. Also wrap a good amount of electrical tape around the metal where it touches the rubber to protect the tire if the pressure drops

Ok, I'll try that.
Rather than electrical tape, which can get pretty messy when hot, I would think that a piece of vacuum hose or fuel line cut length-wise, then glued onto that 'sharp' edge would do the trick...

 

[ratz]

Rather than electrical tape, which can get pretty messy when hot, I would think that a piece of vacuum hose or fuel line cut length-wise, then glued onto that 'sharp' edge would do the trick...

I actually use velcro wire wrap; but I was trying to think of something non-computer guys would have in the garage. Or in Eric case that he could probably find in his garage without something falling on him.

I always have tons of this on hand because it's so useful if you are a hyper organizer...

 

[Charles.Plager]

I always have tons of this on hand because it's so useful if you are a hyper organizer...

View attachment 310

I find it useful for all sorts of things (and it's quite fair to say I'm not hyper-organized).

 

[battleaxe0]

$5 for 100 velcro ties:
http://www.amazon.com/VELCRO-Brand-ONE-WRAP-Self-Gripping-Reusable/dp/B001E1Y5O6

 

[LarryOz]

Nice pic's Gary. I've suddenly got a craving Root Beer !

Rick - you crack me up - craving Root Bear - for sure!
Great looking wheels Gary.
I think if you could get some graphics on those wheels - nothing fancy; small white circles or balls - then the "root beer float" V would come to life!

 

[ratz]

I think if you could get some graphics on those wheels - nothing fancy; small white circles or balls - then the "root beer float" V would come to life!

Polkadots?

 

[LarryOz]

Polkadots?

I was thinking more along the lines of : Ice-cream scoop dots!