Multi-Day Ride: 100 miles a day

[Ivan]

I have been planning and training myself up for my 40th birthday present - a 100 miles/170km a day solo ride over 6 consecutive days from Singapore - Malaysia - Thailand on my Silvio 2. I have never done anything like this before. I've been increasing mileage, dropping weight, aware of muscle soreness/injury etc, and generally feeling good. Intended departure is just 6 weeks away but I do have some questions if some can share from your own ultra experiences or point me to URLs (I've read quite a bit but am sure there's a great resource out there I've missed).

1. To ride a century comfortably you can typically ride 70% of the mileage in training and you'll do the century day comfortably. But what about doing multi-day back to back centuries? If I can ride 2 back to back centuries in training at home without much bother, then will I be fine?

2. Is it best to have a "recover day" halfway through the ride. I'm not sightseeing, so I don't want that kind of recovery, but should I have a slow 30 mile day halfway through? Or is it better to spread it all out pretty evenly?

3. I am struggling to put in the time / mileage on my regular schedule now. For example, I've been waking up super early to do 3 hour morning rides to work - clocking up 100km on a regular work day. But then I end up not getting enough sleep, or yesterday I didn't enough so today's ride was lackluster. General advice? This is part of the learning journey I guess. Which is why I ask #1 - is it enough to just build up to 2 back to back centuries. I can definitely do that in the remaining weeks. If more than that then, I need to take stock carefully.

Thanks for your advice - especially you crazy ultra guys. I wanna be like you! Ha!

 

[snilard]

Hi.
I would like to share

Hi.
I would like to share some of my experience with long distances. Alone century is not long distance (maybe on MTB but not on Silvio) but 6 centuries in row are long distance.

Training for long distance should by ascending. Shorter durations at beginning to approximately same durations as planned trip. It is also necessary to have tempo and brisk rides. Good book about training for long distance is "Distance cycling" (http://www.amazon.com/Distance-Cycling-John-Hughes-ebook/dp/B007RCMPK2/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1422619021&sr=1-1&keywords=distance+cycling). I will be training guided by this book next summer season (I have winter skiing season now.)

You need to take care of few thing when riding long distance. You need to pace yourself and ride slow. You will be riding slower and slower day by day. But if you overspeed first day you will suffer next days. I use heart rate monitor to pace myself, my friend are riding just by feeling. The best way for pacing is of course power meter. Second thing is fueling. You need to ear regularly while on bike and also after ride to recover as much as possible of glycogen stores. Your food should by tested by yourself and should not cause you stomach ages. Training rides are good to test your food and train pacing.

2. I think that "recovery day" is good idea. You will recover and your will ride in better mood next days.

From my point of view riding long distances alone is not mainly about your physical abilities but about your mental abilities. Last season we were riding 400 km brevet. I am slow rider and I have not so fast bike (Silvio is faster). We were riding first 200 km in group thru night. We met ring in morning. We were tired a little bit frozen but in good mood. Way back was a lot worse. We separated after some kms. So we were riding alone about 150 km. I only met one of my friends few times on road when I was taking pause. I was really slow, alone and I was fighting problems with my guts. I was not sure if I will finish in time limit. What was nice that I met the friend few kms before end and we was riding together to finish thru city where he is home and I am foreign. We was really happy in finish after approx 25 hours of riding. So I think that most important is mental ability to sustain pain, slow speed and bore.

I am sorry for my English

 

[Eric Winn]

If you are comfortable

If you are comfortable maintaining your 20 mph (33 kph) pace for your 62 miles (100 km) for your 3 hour rides and don't feel all that stressed from a double century then as long as you have good route planning and know where you expect to sleep, eat, excrete, etc then I suspect you'll be fine.

Assuming you can average 20 mph (33 kph) for 100 miles (170 km) you are talking 5 hours out of 24 before you start again. Take it at more of a rando pace of about half that 10 mph (16 kph) and you are still only talking 10 hours out of 24. Lots of time to rest, refuel, re-energize, etc.

In 24 hour and longer non-stop type of ultras a really big part of the challenge is fuel and rest. You have to consume about 300-400 calories per hour or you will go into deficit and bonk. Not much opportunity to rest in the 24 hour and less ones and remain competitive with others.

You still have the fuel concerns but will be resting overnight between rides and also have time to restore your calorie deficit if you do get behind while riding.

I don't have the data to support this but my impression of Maria's RAAM victory was she spent a bit more time than others sleeping but rode harder/faster in comparison when she was riding.

Sounds like fun to me.

-Eric

 

[Ivan]

Thanks Eric and Snilard!

Thanks Eric and Snilard! I am glad I asked for advice... I will definitely take it easy the first 2 days, and keep if my mood is low will take that recovery day. I may leave a day earlier to give me more buffer time as this is my first long multi-day ride and I won't have any support/assistance.

Since my terrain is easy (but hot weather), and I will try to have looong sleep time - I think based on your comments I am about on the right track. I am doing 100km on back to back days now - but this is a regular work day, so I am struggling with the sleep and "tired from work day" effect, which will be better on the actual ride. Also, some calculations based on numbers you reminded me of show that I'm not eating enough on my long training rides. Will have to fix that and definitely eat more during the actual ride.

I will buy that book on Kindle! i bought various books on touring and ultra-light cycling to help me and am now using these tips. Thanks for the tip on my next cycling book!

 

[ratz]

To add to what's been

To add to what's been said.

Practice eating on the bike. Start now, you have to find out what works well and what doesn't and gives you a sloshy gut.

What I'm now testing on the recumbent; is to drink Water, a lot of water, first; then wait 20-25 so it can get across the gut wall. Should only take 15 minutes on an un-feed stomach. The after that either Dry food; nutz; dehydrated fruit, or energy bars, then ride, then repeat water an hour later follow but 20-25 minute break, then Energy Drink or Jells, repeat cycle. This in addition to normal sipping and drinking; but after food I try to go really easy on the water. I do that because pesonally I can't mix a lot of liquid and food or I get a gut full of slosh that does nothing, but make we sick as nothing gets out of the stomach.

If you have a trainer, do some indoor rides on the weekend; boring yes, but if you do 6-8 hours you can take 2 or 3 meals on the bike on the trainer and test what works. If you get sick you can just stop; note the failure and the start again a few hours later; or the next day. So much easier to test in doors.

 

[gammason]

+1 to the above comments.

+1 to the above comments. I'd like to add that Hammernutrition.com has good free info on fueling your body. Of course they sell product, but the information is valid regardless as to what you fuel your body with. The site helped me understand the basics, and not so basic, way of training and fuel, before and after. Hope this helps.

Scott

 

[Kim Tolhurst]

mentals

After one of Maria's 24 hour rides I enquired as to some of her mentality tricks and clearly remember the answer. "she rides at 15 minutes segments, 96 times in a row".

How many in a row for you? good luck,

Kim

 

[Wannabe]

great nutrients are essential ....

I have never done this type of ride. I have ridden my BMW R1100GS for weeks on end. I learned alot about staying hydrated. I learned the hard way. But after making changes things got much better. When I started riding my past bent ( GRR) for 60 + mile rides, I remembered what I learned from extended M/C riding ( specially in hot climes).

The way I see it is: when you perspire ( low rate M/C, Higher rate bicycle) one needs to replace all of the chemicals lost in that activity, NOT JUST THE WATER. To drink only water will further add the to problem of loosing electrolytes and other needed nutrients. Yes you can eat nuts and such, but you are not going to be sure if you are getting everything needed ie lost through the exercise/ activity.

Shaklee products have been instrumental in athletic prowess and amazing accomplishments.

http://bestperformance.myshaklee.com/us/en/shop/healthyfoundations/sports

I use the performance while riding, and Physique when done. It changed my riding for the better in many ways. I was very skeptical, so I took them up on the money back policy. It did not take all month....as the first time I used it, the results were amazing. I hope you try this. I know it will help. If you like it you can join up like i did to save. BTW, these products are very economical when you look at the whole picture. I also like to eat one or two energy chews over 3 hours. They really help. In addition, we do stop, eat a bananna, some peanut butter, fruit etc. But the Shaklee far surpasses Gatorade and similar.

 

[tiltmaniac]

Long tours

Ivan, how much climbing will be involved?
Will the temperatures or humidity be different than Singapore/are there any interesting microclimates you'll need to prepare for?
Are you riding with support?

I'm just trying to figure out if my experiences are useful to mention or not (we did much more climbing than flat miles).

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Ivan, sounds like a lot of

Ivan, sounds like a lot of fun. I intend to do something similar in March or April on my Vendetta, but I'm limiting myself to 60 miles per day, as there will be a little climbing involved. I too have never done a multiday tour. But I've simulated 5-6 day back to back rides from home. My very limited experience is that the 4th, 5th, and 6th days don't feel as good as the the first days in. My main concern is muscle or joint injury from over usage.

Ivan, please keep us updated with video and pictures and how it goes. Good luck!

 

[Vargas]

Cycle Touring

My suggestion is that you approach this as a cycle tour. I did only twice a multi-days ride, covering 100-150 Km a day.
My experience:
- take it easy
- start early in the morning, between 06:00 and 07:00 am.
- stop 5 to 10 minutes every hour for water/snacks/bananas/pictures. Doesn't make sense to eat pedaling; you are having a good time, not breaking any records.
- stop for lunch. After lunch find a good shadow and take a 2 hours sleep. I have been to Thailand and it is as hot as in Brazil. I don't like the noon sun cooking my brain. And due to the recumbent position, sun affects us a lot.
Some maths:
Riding at 20km/h (should not be difficult on a Silvio), and stopping 10 minutes every hour, you will pedal 17 km/h. Thus you will need 10 hours for the 170 Km. Staring at 07:00 am and stopping two hours for lunch and a nap, you will finish the 170 Km around 19:00 pm. Plenty of time for dinner, a beer and a good sleep.

 

[LarryOz]

My 2 cents

Hi Ivan,
All the comments that I have seen are really good, so I will not duplicate them.
As only been riding Cruzbike since last June, I am a novice compared to everyone else that has replied, so I will also just give you my impressions for your training since I have also been training for Sebring 24 hour event recently. I have read half dozen books on the subject of training as well, and have tried to put some of the examples and recommendations into practice.
You mentioned that you have been trying to get up early and ride for 3 hours to work and you feel over-tired.
You are probably doing too much and not recovering properly if you feel really tired.

One question I had when training, I was trying to figure out if I have enough endurance build up to ride long hours. To answer that question one trainer had his trainees ride a two hour aerobic ride, trying to keep the power level (or effort) the same. If your average HR for the second hour is basically the same (or within 5%) of your first hour then they would say you are quite fit and basically able to ride and train at a fairly high level. This is quite easy to do with a power meter, but if you don't have one, then I would pick a good route that you can complete in an hour at "your" average aerobic level. Then try and ride it twice without stopping at about the same speed. If you are within the 5% then you have a good base and fitness level. This means that you probably do not have to ride excessive miles or time (i.e 3 or 4 hours a day), unless you just want to really improve your fitness level to go faster during the centuries. Not sure what you "goals" are so being pretty vague here.
If this is what you want to do (increase your fitness and speed), then I would definitely alternate days of riding hard, and then either not riding at all, or very gently recovery riding so you do not over-fatigue yourself. This will give you body a chance to recover and will probably help you feel less tired all the time.

The other thing you obviously need to do, would be to figure out what speed or HR, or power you want to ride each Century at.
Then I would train at about 20% higher than that level between now and when you start your taper (more on that below) for the multi-day Centuries. (Then when you ride the Centuries, they will then seem quite easy to you.) I would also limit my training at the +20% level to a maximum of 2 hours every other day.

Finally, I would also treat you multi-day ride as a "event" regardless of your goals.
Taper for 2 weeks by gently reducing your hours of riding, but keeping the intensity level high during alternating days.
Work your way down to 1/2 hour a day? about 3-4 days before your start your multi-day, then just rest - You will feel fresh and be in top form for your tour.

From what I know about you and what you have said and done already in training - I think you will do splendidly.
When will you begin?
Larry

 

[Ivan]

Thanks all. That book

Thanks all. That book "Distance Cycling" I bought on Kindle is very good. Highly recommended for those thinking of going above 100 miles in one event.

Learning more about my own body and limitations as I go. Pain, soreness, periodization. Today I did a 170km ride (just over 100 miles) simulating what I would be trying to do. Similar to a regular century event except a little slower, self-sufficient and a brief lunch stop. I am eating on the bike and stopping occasionally to pee!

http://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/690260940

Now to see how I will feel on my shorter back to back ride tomorrow!

 

[kenhardwick]

stopping occasionally to pee!

Ivan, You need to install a bottle and tube for that

Saves lots of time....

 

[LarryOz]

Heck, forget the bottle,

just water the road as you go by....
...
It is amazing how a full bladder can make you so uncomfortable!
I have been experimenting with condom cathedars for my upcoming 24 hour at Sebring.

They seem to work pretty good, but man........ are they "painful" to get off after many manly hours on the bike. OUCH!

I regret that I will not be posting any photos on this thread!

 

[Rick Youngblood]

It is amazing how a full

It is amazing how a full bladder can make you so uncomfortable!

Larry, just do what Charlie O. did, but make sure no one is behind you

!

 

[Charles.Plager]

If you really want to go the

If you really want to go the catheter route, it's probably worth talking to Dan Fallon who has used them for exactly this.

 

[chrisblessing]

distance ride

Hi Ivan,

There's been great advice offered here, so I can't add a lot, but I will mention that I did a ride from Bangkok to Chiang Mai last summer (and planning Phuket > Bangkok this coming June).

My daily distance was shorter and likely slower at about 25-28 km/h, and typically 80-120 km a day. It was an 8 day journey, with 1 day off in the middle. The Cruzbike is so comfortable that I never finished a day in pain. The thing that did get to me was the heat and humidity. Thankfully, you're from Singapore so you'll not be overwhelmed, but be mindful that by the time you reach Thailand you'll be facing 38-40 degree days.

My ride was in Thailand only, so my comments apply only to that country. My suggestions:

1) Start and finish early. For me 6:00 am starts gave me 5-7 hours of relatively comfortable riding. Temperatures start peaking around 2:00 pm. After hours on a bike riding that time of day is punishing, despite your conditioning. Leaving early imparts one other benefit; if you stay in a town that has one or more public schools, be mindful that most students will come to school quite early in cars, vans and motorbikes. They arrive early to take breakfast and purchase lunch at the numerous, temporary food stalls which clutter the roadways around the school. Getting past the crowds of pedestrians and vehicles was at times a real nightmare, and, more than the heat, was the most compelling reason to depart early.

2) Gamasson mentioned Hammer Nutrition. I used Hammer's Perpetuem and Enduralite for my ride, and found that I had more than enough energy for the duration, without any of the distress that can occur when eating solid food. On only a couple of occasions did I bother with a very light meal while riding. That said, Thailand has wonderful coffee shops along every major road, where you can cool off, hop online.... I paced my day based on the location of Amazon Coffee

3) Unless you're booking your lodging ahead of time, consider either having a roaming data plan or getting a SIM with data in each country. I used my phone for navigation with Google Maps and for booking rooms via Agoda, which also uses Google Maps for location. It was super convenient, when I was 20-30 km out of my destination, to look at Agoda, find the room closest to my location, and book it.

In about two years I'm hoping to take the Odyssey bus to Singapore, turn around and ride north, albeit taking in Laos, the Chinese border and Myanmar. I do hope you'll share your route and experiences.

If you're passing through KL, let's meet. PM me for my contact details.

Best of luck,

Chris

 

[ratz]

Steve Born on nutrition

Here's a good video

This is a very long lecture by famous ultra distance athlete and coach Steve Born


http://youtu.be/jVjjpPu3ls4

 

[chrisblessing]

Thanks Bob

Thanks for sharing the video. A top Malaysian rider who advised me on distance riding in tropical heat made the same suggestion as Mr. Born regarding concentrating the Perpetuem and using one bottle for nutrition and another for hydration. It worked brilliantly for me. An additional tip would be to utilize an insulated bottle, as the Perpetuem will be fresher at the end of the 4 hours.

Ivan, this is a must-see video.

Chris