My Silvio 2.0 Frame Set Arrived Today

[BentBierz]

Well, after more than 3 years pondering whether a MBB was right for me, with the arrival today of a Silvio 2.0 frameset I have finally joined the Cruzbike family. I bought two bikes and sold one of them during this period of confusion. Each time I considered buying a Silvio but then let all the negativity sway my decision towards something else. Disclaimer: There was actually more things positive on the web than negative but, as humans tend to do too often, I let one negative cancel out ten positives.

i am not going to do a blow-by-blow account of my build as this has already been done recently and probably a lot better than what I can do. I WILL provide a few pictures along the way though as I am going to attempt to build this with a Rohloff hub and I know there has been some interest in a Silvio being built with an IGH. I already did a test fit of my Rohloff wheel in the fork dropouts and it looks like it is going to work although I may have to do some slight filing on the inside of the dropouts.

With my recent back surgery, I may be a little slower getting the bike together and it could be 3 to 4 months before I can provide a ride report.

That's it for now...more to follow.

 

[Lavs]

The Journey Is The Reward

Way to go and take your time.

"The Journey Is The Reward"

 

[BentBierz]

Second Thoughts on Using a Rohloff...

Curious but the more I've researched using a 135 mm hub with a 130 mm aluminum fork or frame the more I read to not do it. Most everything I read, including Sheldon, says that spreading steel or Ti to accommodate a bigger axle is of little concern but should never be done with aluminum due to potential for stress failure of the aluminum.

i just received my Silvio 2.0 yesterday and was thrilled that I could get my Rohloff to fit in the fork but the more I have read (sleepless right now thinking about it) the more I doubt I should do this. I was all set to start ordering what I needed to set this up for a Rohloff but now having huge doubts and may go with conventional gearing.

 

[Eric Winn]

If you fit it in by hand with

If you fit it in by hand with no tools, I seriously doubt you are flexing anything enough to be an issue.

If anything, having the assembly be a bit snug may be a plus. Taking the wheel on and off on my Vendetta has gotten easier with more practice but is still a bit of a PITA.

-Eric

 

[Romagjack]

You can always go

You can always go "conventional" to start with and get a good feel for the bike. But, since you are used to a Rohloff, I doubt that you can resist installing it for long. I had to shave a few mm off the drop outs of a very expensive aluminum frame Klein mountain bike many years ago. Never had a problem and the bike took a real beating. I'm sure John T and Doug will have good advice.

 

[BentBierz]

Shave a Few mm's...

Romagjack,

That is exactly what I am contemplating doing but I want to hear from Cruzbike first to make sure there is no issue with taking off a few mm. As you can see in the picture below, with the QR tight, I have a gap on the disc side drop out due to the drop outs no longer being parallel to the axle in the spread condition:

As you can see in the picture below, there is a slight raised area on the inside of the fork dropout. I'm not certain what purpose this serves as I don't have this same feature on any of my other bikes. My thought is to file down this protrusion on both drop outs to reduce the spread of the forks and to also allow for a little better alignment of the drop out to the flat on the axle. However, before I do that I want to check with Cruzbikes to make sure it isn't a critical feature of their forks.

 

[Romagjack]

Larry,
Yes, you definitely

Larry,

Yes, you definitely want to confirm any filing with John T. and Doug.

I had the same drop out ridges (that I carefully filed) on my Klein aluminum frame mountain bike. I've since made it into Cruzbike conversion but spend all my time on the Quest 2 because of the IGH and disc brakes.

 

[BentBierz]

Got an Answer from Doug at Cruzbike

For those wanting to do something similar, I just received an email from Doug Burton stating that there would be no problem removing the shoulder inside of the drop out and I could potentially gain about 3 mm. I'm certain that the forks could easily stand a 2 mm separation and it should also help with the dropout/axle interface alignment.

Doug did mention that it would not be as easy to use a flat file as I had originally thought due to the shoulder sitting in a depression in the fork so you could not really get enough of a file stroke to be effective. He mentioned that using a Dremel sanding tool would give better results due to the limited area. However, his best suggestion, unfortunately the most costly, is to buy a dropout facing tool: http://morningstartools.com/Pages/DropoutFacing.aspx

As much as I hate to spend that kind of money for something I may likely use just this one time, my new Silvio is too nice not to make sure everything I do is done right and this tool looks like it will do exactly what I want done and with more precision than a Dremel tool.

 

[Eric Winn]

Hmmm, so would you use

Hmmm, so would you use something to flare the forks out ever so slightly to the 135mm measure before using the facing tool since it uses the dropouts centerline axis? The only reason I wonder about it is because of your first photo above.

-Eric

 

[Andrew 1973]

dropout facing

A good shop with a skilled mechanic will have facing tools and will probably charge no more ghan $30 for this service. I have "faced" dropouts with a Dremel fitted with a cylindrical grinding bit and a custom made collet to ride in the dropout slot. Done carefully, you can get an almost profesional result.

 

[BentBierz]

"Hmmm, so would you use

"Hmmm, so would you use something to flare the forks out ever so slightly to the 135mm measure before using the facing tool since it uses the dropouts centerline axis? The only reason I wonder about it is because of your first photo above."

Hi Eric,

That is something to consider but Doug thinks that I should be able to remove at least 3 mm total and maybe more by facing the drop outs. If this is the case, it probably would be good-to-go faced in a non-spread mode.

Hi Andrew,

I plan to make some calls tomorrow to see if there are any bike shops in the area that have the facing tool. Doing a search online I was surprised to see that Park didn't make the tool (unless I completely missed it on their website) and that Morningstar seems to be the only one that does. Kind of makes me wonder how many shops would have it if it is only available from one company.

 

[Andrew 1973]

I know a couple

I know a couple framebuilders, one of which advised me that he sees no need for such a tool. The traditional method of using tools like Campagnolo "bells" is precise. However, you are looking to widen the spacing by removing material from the dropout. In this case, I would probably drop the money on the facing tool with the hope of selling it to Doug when you're done.

 

[John Tolhurst]

I see. Please don't use bells

I see. Please don't use bells on the Silvio or Vendetta forks ends, or any kind of tool that seeks to reform the shape. Save the technique for steel.

 

[Andrew 1973]

I shouldn't offer advice here...sorry.

In my mind, I know that aligning alloy dropouts on an aluminum frame by bending is a bad idea. The guys I know work with steel, and I never even thought to mention that.

I would not alter the frame in any way other than standard practice of facing and chasing the BB if needed.

In short, don't take my advice; listen to John on this one.

 

[BentBierz]

Well, after a long weekend of

Well, after a long weekend of debate, I am going to drop the Rohloff idea...not because I don't think it will work but worried about the consequences if it doesn't. Evidently at this evolutionary stage of the Silvio development, there is one fork for one bike. Once Cruzbike is fully ramped up in their Silvio 2.0 production there will be more replacement parts available without having to tear open a frameset box for a fork. I'm sure Cruzbike would sell me a replacement fork in a heartbeat if I went through an experience like Eric just went through but if I screwed up the fork while trying to face the dropouts...probably not as understanding.

I'm sure I'll be happy as a clam with the set-up I end up with but, as most people who have fallen in love with Rohloff's will tell you, the riding experience won't be the same...far from bad, just not as good.

 

[Eric Winn]

I have an idea! Send me your

I have an idea! Send me your Rohloff and I'll test it out in my Vendetta...

 

[BentBierz]

What Vendetta....oops, too

What Vendetta....oops, too soon!?!

 

[Eric Winn]

Well, I have to replace the

Well, I have to replace the drive wheel anyway so the timing is perfect....

Although truth be told, I'm more intrigued with putting a Rohloff on a Silvio.

-Eric