Need input for possible new Cruzbike product

[LarryOz]

I agree that the $600 price tag is way to steep for me. I would like it more in the $200 range personally!
I also think the CF is what is driving up the cost. For the size, simple lighweight molded plastic I don't think would weight that much more.
I built my own "quiver" , much like Eric (I think I used his plans) and Maria had on their V.
It held two bottles and all my tools. Many of you have seen it on my V2.2 in various events.
I took it off after my bottles kept popping out as there was nothing to hold them in. I need to fabricate a simple "top" that will hold them in better.

I also fabricated a simple "rack" that hangs off the back of the headrest. (I think Jim & Maria have something similar too). See pic below.
It holds 2 water bottles on either side (below my shoulders), and room for my "tool kit" directly behind the seat.
I created it out of some scrap 1/8" plastic (I molded with a heat gun) and a couple pieces of aluminum strapping.
I will have to say that it has taken some getting used to returning the water bottles into their respective holders behind my shoulders.
I found it much easy replacing them directly behind my head in the quiver.
It might just take more time to get used to the water bottles behind my shoulder, not sure.

 

[Apollo]

To make a rough comparison, a VK2 carbon tailbox is around $600 and it's quite a bit larger. $400 would probably be the upper limit in carbon, lower if offered in another material like fiberglass. It's not going to be easy creating a functional aerodynamic tailbox for a Silvio or Vendetta because of the way their seats are shaped. To really feel the aero benefits of a tailbox it needs to be big in all dimensions.

 

[Rick Youngblood]

I agree with everyone here. For me too much. If I have $600 to invest in my bike, I would be looking at wheels or component upgrades.

I have that much or less invested in my CF seat mod, which includs Aero bag, Ventisit pad, and ADEM hestrest, etc.

 

[JOSEPHWEISSERT]

FYI: My solution with Volae seat, Topeak bag, and stock neck rest turned into a structural frame support for bag and bottle cages.

 

[tiltmaniac]

I have the quiver-style water bottle mount. Worked very well. I think I'd prefer that to two bottles, one behind the other...

In other words, I'd prefer to have two bottles, one each behind each ear. This would maximize useable volume
I'd pay perhaps up to $375 for such a thing, so long as its quality was high, its convenience was high, and the volume it held was large enough to be useful (otherwise, I'll just stick with putting the banana-bags on). If the volume is larger, I might be willing to pay more.

What makes up my mind on cost is that the Profile Design quiver mount that I use already is $80-100 on its own.

 

[ak-tux]

Hello Jim,

It Looks like a nicely designed product. However, for for that price, it would only be value for money if it was big (and hardy) enough to be a storage solution not just a water bottle holder. Please consider making it it alot bigger like the http://oceancycle.co.uk/ tail box with your modification for a couple of water bottles.

 

[Jim Parker]

Thank you all for the comments and suggestions... very helpful. We'll review the features with our product designer, Jacob Bouchard, and expand our search of manufacturers to see if we can get the price down on this storage box.

Jim

 

[KiwiGuy]

A rock solid light mount on the back is a must. You must be able to mount a light and adjust it's position to suit and then it needs to stay in that position despite my crappy road conditions trying to bounce it off or out of alignment. Also think video camera in lieu of or in addition to a light.

Agree. The ability to attach a regular rear light, or a Fly6, is critical imho.

Kind regards...

 

[Mwhwsmith]

I'm loving the idea of a carbon aerobox.

A couple of quick thoughts:

A) the sunken bottle holders seem daft: they are inefficient use of space in side the box. Using a bladder might be acceptable to or having a mounting point for a cage may be a solution that allows bottles to be attached.

 

[Mwhwsmith]

Oops ... Fat fingers

I'm loving the idea of a carbon aerobox.

A couple of quick thoughts:

A) the sunken bottle holders seem daft: they are inefficient use of space in side the box. Using a bladder might be acceptable to many and having a mounting point for a cage may be a solution that allows bottles to be attached where preferred

B) USD600 is steep ... For me, USD300ish would make it interesting

C) Absolutely agree on the light mounting need

D) is there an option to design this to replace the headrest rather than attach to it? This might make the mounting more solid and, if designed with a cleverly, might make the interface with a cycle helmet smoother and more aero by partially wrapping around.

M

 

[Itripper]

Hello Jim,

It Looks like a nicely designed product. However, for for that price, it would only be value for money if it was big (and hardy) enough to be a storage solution not just a water bottle holder. Please consider making it it alot bigger like the http://oceancycle.co.uk/ tail box with your modification for a couple of water bottles.

I really love my Vendetta, it is very important to me that everything on it looks great and performs as aero as possible. The Oceancycle box shown here has a neat look to it, I think a similar design, one that has the groove for the wheel, would be great. $250 range is where I would consider buying a tail box. I can not stress enough, if it does not help make the bike look more bitchin than it already does, then it won't go on my bike. Pleasing lines to the tailbox are important, please do not be offended; IMHO the proposed design looks like a drink cup holder, not worthy of being put on one of the best looking bikes ever made.

 

[Rat Rider]

Just like many things, opinions vary.

The bottle holder aspect is it strongest selling point (IMHO). I have used other rear bottle holders and they are infinitely better (again, my opinion) than the under-seat holders. As for bladders, many of us don't like them.

 

[1happyreader]

Bladders RULE ,,, my life,,, and I like the one I use on my bike also.

 

[bobw]

If you demonstrated that the box added 1-2mph at equivalent power (as asserted for other products), $600 may follow. But you don't mention performance at all, just utility. And the box design looks utilitarian. As other folks have mentioned, plenty of options exist for that.

 

[hamishbarker]

For my vendetta (with me on it)'s measured cdA, to increase from 24 to 25 mph staying at 235watts, that would require a13 percent reductipn in cdA.

At a Cd of 1 (bluff messy body aerodynamics of eg helmeted head), that would mean removing frontal area of 165x165mm. Put another way, improve the cd of the riders head (say 150x250 mm) frontal area from say 1 to 0.26. Possible? Maybe with a fairing matching the head and helmet outline, and a full front visor on the helmet.

Perhaps half a mph improvement is more likely.

Also if it makes it easier to keep well hydrated, available power (= more speed) will be improved.

 

[Matthias]

Your friends here at Cruzbike have been working on many interesting projects. One of them is an aerodynamic carbon fiber tail box designed for the Silvio and Vendetta models. The idea is a sleek and lightweight box that can hold a few essential items, including two standard water bottles or a reservoir bag. It also has mount holes for two additional water bottle cages on the sides. Cruzbike Designer Jacob Bouchard, of New York City, has made some beautiful drawings, including 3D-CAD models of the product.

Here's the problem... the few vendors we have quotes from are quoting a price well above what we'd like to see. Given the tooling and other production costs, the retail price would be approximately $600. We think that's too much. Do you agree? or would that price be acceptable? Please contact us if you know of a company that might make it for significantly less, or if you have any other suggestions.

Jim
View attachment 738

You may contact Novosport in Germany (http://www.novosport.de/193/homepage , partly also in English). The produce various boxes from 25 to 85 liters. Prices starting at 195 € (275 € for carbon). As far as I know they do also white label production for other brands. They told me that their current Lowrider series (designed for M5, Fujin, Baron) should fit with some adaptation also to Cruzbikes.

At what stage are you with your own development? When will the tail box become available?

Matthias

 

[Iceman]

Very interesting idea.
Given the probable quantities involved the cost of tooling would drive the cost way up.
Could you use another material?
If these could be formed out of aluminum sheet the cost of tooling would come way down although the cost of labor per unit probably would be higher.
Many sheet metal shops have CNC sheet cutting ability. You would own the program and they would run your parts as needed. Modifying prototypes is relatively easy as
you just go into the program and make changes. No hard tooling involved.
Compound curves would be difficult so a re design would be needed.
We use Hi Def Plasma on sheets and plates. Then we bend and weld as needed.
Hope this helps.

 

[soldierblue]

Hi Jim,

If it isn't too late to put in my 2 cents, I would like to see a large carbon tailbox integrated with the seat much like the one used by Tijmen Hoeve's Paris-Brest-Paris M5 CHR. It was the fastest unfaired recumbent in the 2007 edition of PBP, finishing in 57 hours . Here is a picture




It is really nice and slick. Lightning bikes Tim Brummer says that a large tailbox that covers the rear wheel makes the bike pretty aerodynamic. I would have no problem with the $600 tag, given that M5's tailboxes are in that price range.

(http://www.m5-ligfietsen.nl/site/EN/Carbon_Specials/Tailbags/)

and given that aero wheels are so much more expensive! I gather adding a tailbox that covers the rear wheel will be as aerodynamic as a rear disc wheel (at the very least).
My desire will be to use this tailbox for long rides like PBP, where I need to carry everything in my tailbox (including food), so that little time is wasted at controls. It would be good too for long distance touring.

 

[DavidCH]

Hey Rick,

Looks like it could be your next assignment... $500 a piece... That could be a good trade... Still... With a fairing this large you might have to drill two holes into your frame

I do admire that tail box of yours. It looks really professional. (Sorry you had to drill a hole)

 

[DavidCH]

Hi Jim,

If it isn't too late to put in my 2 cents, I would like to see a large carbon tailbox integrated with the seat much like the one used by Tijmen Hoeve's Paris-Brest-Paris M5 CHR. It was the fastest unfaired recumbent in the 2007 edition of PBP, finishing in 57 hours . Here is a picture

View attachment 3502


It is really nice and slick. Lightning bikes Tim Brummer says that a large tailbox that covers the rear wheel makes the bike pretty aerodynamic. I would have no problem with the $600 tag, given that M5's tailboxes are in that price range.

(http://www.m5-ligfietsen.nl/site/EN/Carbon_Specials/Tailbags/)

and given that aero wheels are so much more expensive! I gather adding a tailbox that covers the rear wheel will be as aerodynamic as a rear disc wheel (at the very least).
My desire will be to use this tailbox for long rides like PBP, where I need to carry everything in my tailbox (including food), so that little time is wasted at controls. It would be good too for long distance touring.

Impressed !

Looks as though Tim shaves his shims.

Still he hasn't got Jason's rear wheel covers and carbon like strut webbing. He also hasn't got Q Rings.

His cranks look long. I think he is in for a surprise in 2019.

Food weighs you down quite a bit... With a fairing that large...
He can carry quite a lot .

His bike is rear drive. Personally, I respect the low racer M5. There are two bikes on my stretch that can catch me. Well I haven't seen the M5 for 9 months so I might have got the better of him, or there is the velomobile that it scorchingly fast. Personally I think it's the M5 rider has upgraded to the velomobile.

Still those bikes aren't so good on the hills. I love my Vendetta.