new blog about new Silvio
- Thread starter John Tolhurst
- Start date
Please consider Disc brake
Please consider Disc brake tabs. The option allows those of us who prefer disc brakes over rims brakes. In addition, the option allows for quickly swapping out of wheelsets, from 700C to 26" (559), 24" (520), 24" (507), 20" (451), or 20" (406). Versatility.
Please consider Disc brake tabs. The option allows those of us who prefer disc brakes over rims brakes. In addition, the option allows for quickly swapping out of wheelsets, from 700C to 26" (559), 24" (520), 24" (507), 20" (451), or 20" (406). Versatility.
Eric Winn
Zen MBB Master
Check out John's photos again
Check out John's photos again in his blog writeup and I think you'll see disc brake tabs on the first and last photo if you look closely.
-Eric
Check out John's photos again in his blog writeup and I think you'll see disc brake tabs on the first and last photo if you look closely.
-Eric
Charles.Plager
Recumbent Quant
Look at that! So, how wide a
Look at that! So, how wide a tire you suppose we can get on there...
Look at that! So, how wide a tire you suppose we can get on there...
ak-tux
Zen MBB Master
Vadn1,
Its interesting that
Vadn1,
Its interesting that with disk brake tabs now part of Silvio-2.0, you noted that you can fit more sizes of wheels from 700x28 (iso 622) to 26" (iso 559) or smaller wheels as long as the hub is disc brake compatible and the tire narrow enough to fit into the fork.
Versatilty indeed. However, I'am not sure about 24" (520), 24" (507), 20" (451), or 20" (406) which, even though technically, they can fit, will significantly affect the trail of the bike. Probabbly the handling may change, but nothing will stop anyone from experimenting all the same.
I however see no value in buying an expensive and sofisticated 700c optimised "road" recumbent frame like the Silvio-2.0 only to put small 20" (451), or 20" (406) wheels on it. Probably some fat the 26" (iso 559) are reasonable for loaded touring as long as it fits into the fork, but 700x28 should be big enough for road touring I believe.
All in all, this Silvio-2.0 is going to be a very versatile bike. Great value for money. Congratulations to John.
Silvio-2.0: Fast, Versatile, Sofisticated, Carbo-Alu, hydroformed eye-candy Bent. Nuf said.
Its interesting that
Vadn1,
Its interesting that with disk brake tabs now part of Silvio-2.0, you noted that you can fit more sizes of wheels from 700x28 (iso 622) to 26" (iso 559) or smaller wheels as long as the hub is disc brake compatible and the tire narrow enough to fit into the fork.
Versatilty indeed. However, I'am not sure about 24" (520), 24" (507), 20" (451), or 20" (406) which, even though technically, they can fit, will significantly affect the trail of the bike. Probabbly the handling may change, but nothing will stop anyone from experimenting all the same.
I however see no value in buying an expensive and sofisticated 700c optimised "road" recumbent frame like the Silvio-2.0 only to put small 20" (451), or 20" (406) wheels on it. Probably some fat the 26" (iso 559) are reasonable for loaded touring as long as it fits into the fork, but 700x28 should be big enough for road touring I believe.
All in all, this Silvio-2.0 is going to be a very versatile bike. Great value for money. Congratulations to John.
Silvio-2.0: Fast, Versatile, Sofisticated, Carbo-Alu, hydroformed eye-candy Bent. Nuf said.
Charles.Plager
Recumbent Quant
Hi Ak-tux,
I however see no
Hi Ak-tux,
I've ridden my old road bike with 28mm tires on loose gravel and I did not enjoy that experience at all. Being able to put a 32mm tire on (and I know that some people have even had trouble putting on certain 28mm tires) would make the Silvio a much more well-rounded bike.
I'm actually very happy with the direction this upgrade has gone. I liked the lower angle of the Vendetta but given that I'm used to riding suspended MBB bikes, I was a little leary of giving that up. John has done beautiful things with this new frame, making it a much more agressive (in terms of angle) while keeping what made it a nice Sunday ride bike. Disc tabs (Thanks Eagle Eyes Eric) are another great improvement. Slightly wider tires and I think we're there.
Well, that's my opinion.
Cheers,
Charles
p.s. The only reason to go for small tires (406/451) is basically packability, so I agree that this wouldn't make sense for most Silvio uses.
I however see no
Hi Ak-tux,
I've ridden my old road bike with 28mm tires on loose gravel and I did not enjoy that experience at all. Being able to put a 32mm tire on (and I know that some people have even had trouble putting on certain 28mm tires) would make the Silvio a much more well-rounded bike.
I'm actually very happy with the direction this upgrade has gone. I liked the lower angle of the Vendetta but given that I'm used to riding suspended MBB bikes, I was a little leary of giving that up. John has done beautiful things with this new frame, making it a much more agressive (in terms of angle) while keeping what made it a nice Sunday ride bike. Disc tabs (Thanks Eagle Eyes Eric) are another great improvement. Slightly wider tires and I think we're there.
Well, that's my opinion.
Cheers,
Charles
p.s. The only reason to go for small tires (406/451) is basically packability, so I agree that this wouldn't make sense for most Silvio uses.
Brakes
So, what I'm hearing is that you could splash out and put some decent Magura brakes on the bike in either disc MT* (*insert number) or the RT8 TT version. The double piston action of the MT series disc calipers means no brake drag whatsoever and really good stopping under heavy use. It's a pity that there isn't a brifter option - yet.
So, what I'm hearing is that you could splash out and put some decent Magura brakes on the bike in either disc MT* (*insert number) or the RT8 TT version. The double piston action of the MT series disc calipers means no brake drag whatsoever and really good stopping under heavy use. It's a pity that there isn't a brifter option - yet.
Eric Winn
Zen MBB Master
Funny you should mention disc
Funny you should mention disc brake drag Ian.
Using my new Park Tool PCS-10 stand as a helper, I just re-adjusted the Avid BB5 brakes on the Quest using the business card technique. Loosen the adjuster bolts and caliper, slide a business card between the fixed side caliper and the disc, thighten the caliper and then the adjuster bolts, back off the caliper and remove the card, tighten back and then back off slightly - viola! No brake drag.
I had done a poor job before on the rear wheel and spinning by hand and letting it spin down did not inspire confidence. After using the business card technique, I spun the wheel, ran upstairs for something, got coffee and the darn thing was still spinning when I got back to the bike. Of course I have now lessened my resistance training so I'll need to ride harder or longer or both - grin...
This was much easier to deal with using the stand.
-Eric
Funny you should mention disc brake drag Ian.
Using my new Park Tool PCS-10 stand as a helper, I just re-adjusted the Avid BB5 brakes on the Quest using the business card technique. Loosen the adjuster bolts and caliper, slide a business card between the fixed side caliper and the disc, thighten the caliper and then the adjuster bolts, back off the caliper and remove the card, tighten back and then back off slightly - viola! No brake drag.
I had done a poor job before on the rear wheel and spinning by hand and letting it spin down did not inspire confidence. After using the business card technique, I spun the wheel, ran upstairs for something, got coffee and the darn thing was still spinning when I got back to the bike. Of course I have now lessened my resistance training so I'll need to ride harder or longer or both - grin...
This was much easier to deal with using the stand.
-Eric
ak-tux
Zen MBB Master
Charles, I see your point
Charles, I see your point about 32 mm tires. But I think the main problem, which most people are overlooking here is the road bike components compatibility and specificially road bike caliper brake compatibility.
John wants to enable road bike users to swap the components from their road bike easily onto the Silvio. Sure, he could make the crown of the fork wide enough for the 32mm tire but then with the maximum reach of the standard racing road bike caliper brake( which is 39-49 mm) one may end up with a tight fit unless one changes it for a slightly longer reach type.
(See more about caliper reach on sheldons bike tech site : http://sheldonbrown.com/calipers.html#reach)
The compromise would be to allow 32mm tires only with disc brakes and a max of 28mm for caliper brakes.
Alternately, John could offer two forks for the Silvio, a long reach one and a standard one, but then again that creates an expensive production process.
Just my cents
~A.K.
Charles, I see your point about 32 mm tires. But I think the main problem, which most people are overlooking here is the road bike components compatibility and specificially road bike caliper brake compatibility.
John wants to enable road bike users to swap the components from their road bike easily onto the Silvio. Sure, he could make the crown of the fork wide enough for the 32mm tire but then with the maximum reach of the standard racing road bike caliper brake( which is 39-49 mm) one may end up with a tight fit unless one changes it for a slightly longer reach type.
(See more about caliper reach on sheldons bike tech site : http://sheldonbrown.com/calipers.html#reach)
The compromise would be to allow 32mm tires only with disc brakes and a max of 28mm for caliper brakes.
Alternately, John could offer two forks for the Silvio, a long reach one and a standard one, but then again that creates an expensive production process.
Just my cents
~A.K.
Charles.Plager
Recumbent Quant
Hi A.K.,
The compromise
Hi A.K.,
I think you're basically right. If there were enough demand, the two fork solution would be best. But if it's not, then your first solution is better than nothing.
Cheers,
Charles
The compromise
Hi A.K.,
I think you're basically right. If there were enough demand, the two fork solution would be best. But if it's not, then your first solution is better than nothing.
Cheers,
Charles
John Tolhurst
Zen MBB Master
We need to reduce the
We need to reduce the permutations of fork designs, not increase them, or we won't have sufficient volume to attract a proper, high quality manufacturer.
ak, that two cents was worth a good deal more. Holding to the road bike components system leads to fork crown clearance, leads to tire choice.
We need to reduce the permutations of fork designs, not increase them, or we won't have sufficient volume to attract a proper, high quality manufacturer.
ak, that two cents was worth a good deal more. Holding to the road bike components system leads to fork crown clearance, leads to tire choice.
Charles.Plager
Recumbent Quant
Hi John,
How wide a tire can
Hi John,
How wide a tire can the new fork take?
Thanks,
Charles
How wide a tire can
Hi John,
How wide a tire can the new fork take?
Thanks,
Charles
John Tolhurst
Zen MBB Master
Hi Charles,
the fork profile
Hi Charles,
the fork profile is identical to current model Silvio and Vendetta, but now has disk brake tabs. Its 42mm at the tire and 38 at the crown. One shouldn't dremel the front of the crown to give more clearance, although on the intial prototype fork I had to do that.
the fork profile
Hi Charles,
the fork profile is identical to current model Silvio and Vendetta, but now has disk brake tabs. Its 42mm at the tire and 38 at the crown. One shouldn't dremel the front of the crown to give more clearance, although on the intial prototype fork I had to do that.
John Tolhurst
Zen MBB Master
I'll get the Silvio this
I'll get the Silvio this week. Will take me a few weeks to assess it.
I'll get the Silvio this week. Will take me a few weeks to assess it.
Doug Burton
Zen MBB Master
So, with all this talk of alternate wheels, I hear the questions
The fork is designed for road bike OLD (over locknut distance). That's 130mm.
Most disc hubs are built to the MTB OLD standard. That's 135mm.
Road-spaced disc hubs aren't all that common yet, so I know there'll be questions about fitting MTB hubs.
Will that work? Dunno. When a Silvio 2.0 gets here those are questions I'll be exploring.
I do know that frequently you can take 2.5mm out of each side of an MTB hub by changing spacers. That varies by hub design.
I think the disc option may give folks who want fatter tires a 26" wheel option.
Could be that the 135mm hub can be forced into the fork. Then we have to verify that the disc tabs are still properly vertical to align with the disc. This I won't know until I try.
I'm very jazzed by this design, it promises amazing versatility, and the seat back angle is the same as my old Red Bike, the comfort of which I loved.
John, they just get better and better. Good Onya.
Cheers,
Doug
The fork is designed for road bike OLD (over locknut distance). That's 130mm.
Most disc hubs are built to the MTB OLD standard. That's 135mm.
Road-spaced disc hubs aren't all that common yet, so I know there'll be questions about fitting MTB hubs.
Will that work? Dunno. When a Silvio 2.0 gets here those are questions I'll be exploring.
I do know that frequently you can take 2.5mm out of each side of an MTB hub by changing spacers. That varies by hub design.
I think the disc option may give folks who want fatter tires a 26" wheel option.
Could be that the 135mm hub can be forced into the fork. Then we have to verify that the disc tabs are still properly vertical to align with the disc. This I won't know until I try.
I'm very jazzed by this design, it promises amazing versatility, and the seat back angle is the same as my old Red Bike, the comfort of which I loved.
John, they just get better and better. Good Onya.
Cheers,
Doug
georgec
Member
135mm hubs seem doable based on my experience
I was pleasantly surprised at how stiff the silvio fork is. If, as John says ...
> the fork profile is identical to current model Silvio and Vendetta
... then my experience of fitting the Nexus 8 gearned hub (132mm over-nut width) into the current model fork is relevant.
ref: http://cruzbike.com/gates-carbon-drive-geared-hub
I would like to suggest that in Doug's comment...
> Could be that the 135mm hub can be forced into the fork.
... one should take note of the term "forced."
My 132mm Nexus hub fit in by spreading the fork, but it was pretty snug. Based on how it felt at 132mm, 135mm in would be seriously tight (technical term) to the point of being unpleasant and perhaps impractical to force.
In the end, I accomodated my 132mm hub by trimming one of the hub nuts down a couple mm to bring the overall hub down to 130mm. I did this to avoid the hassle of the tight fit, and to get washers etc, to fit on the rather short solid axle I was dealing with.
To fit a 135mm hub, I would look to trim a couple mm off of the fork nuts, either by swapping them around or griding them down, to get the width down to 132-133mm. At this width, the hub will be a snug fit, slightly annoying to deal with, but doable.
I was pleasantly surprised at how stiff the silvio fork is. If, as John says ...
> the fork profile is identical to current model Silvio and Vendetta
... then my experience of fitting the Nexus 8 gearned hub (132mm over-nut width) into the current model fork is relevant.
ref: http://cruzbike.com/gates-carbon-drive-geared-hub
I would like to suggest that in Doug's comment...
> Could be that the 135mm hub can be forced into the fork.
... one should take note of the term "forced."
My 132mm Nexus hub fit in by spreading the fork, but it was pretty snug. Based on how it felt at 132mm, 135mm in would be seriously tight (technical term) to the point of being unpleasant and perhaps impractical to force.
In the end, I accomodated my 132mm hub by trimming one of the hub nuts down a couple mm to bring the overall hub down to 130mm. I did this to avoid the hassle of the tight fit, and to get washers etc, to fit on the rather short solid axle I was dealing with.
To fit a 135mm hub, I would look to trim a couple mm off of the fork nuts, either by swapping them around or griding them down, to get the width down to 132-133mm. At this width, the hub will be a snug fit, slightly annoying to deal with, but doable.
