New Conversion

djnacory

New Member
I just completed a conversion of my sons old Mongoose Y frame. This looks alot like JMHoff's bike! I planned to do the bike with black accents and after seeing his bike it confirmed my choice. Just finished the bike on Saturday and rode around the High School parking lot for 2 hours on Sunday. It's very akward but in time it will come. I did modify the frame slightly to accept some 700C Wheels.


Cruzbike.jpg height: 489px
 

Kim Tolhurst

Well-Known Member
Well done, a very clean and tidy job. The adjustable bracket to handle bars is a good addition from the outset. Now that you are underway in the car park a good excersise is peddle on the straight, roll in the turn, equal pressure forward on the hands, open palms. The key is to let your legs and arms do the steering, =)

cheers,

Kim.
 

AlanLowry

New Member
Another Mongoose Conversion

I just completed my own Mongoose conversion, so I thought that I'd tag onto this thread. I needed to enlist the local bike shop to handle the bottom bracket transfer. Otherwise, it was pretty easy.
I have about 12 years experience riding recumbents, beginning on a BikeE, and more recently riding an Action Bent (aka Performer). The Cruzbike concept interested me, so I decided to try the entry level product.
My first ride on the Cruzbike was awkward, but the second ride went pretty well, enough so to give me hope.
The heavy wheel flop is kind of annoying, especially when walking and parking the bike. Now I'm wondering if a torsion spring of the right size could be applied to conteract the wheel flop. Has anyone looked into that?
I'l try to post a photo here.
 

John Tolhurst

Zen MBB Master
wheel a regulat bike by the

wheel a regulat bike by the seat if you like, but wheel the cruzbike by the handlebars ... :)
 

AlanLowry

New Member
Wheel Flop Remedy

John, does your comment mean that you like the wheel flop or you just don't think that a torsion spring would be a reasonable remedy for it?
 

John Tolhurst

Zen MBB Master
Hi Alan, 
I'm concerned about


Hi Alan,
I'm concerned about how it rides, less with how it walks.
regular_smile.gif
In riding, is wheel flop really noticable? There is a test you can do with that bike. Wind the preload up to max, which lifts the rear of the bike and steepens the steering tube. This reduces wheel flop. The other way is the reverse. Try some different settings and what you think. I had a set of brackets made up that allowed me to hang the rear wheel two inches above the dropouts, so I could test a lot of different steering tube angles. Quickly learned the whole show was better with normal head tube angles.

When you get comfortable riding you might still notice wheel flop when walking or parking. Wheel by putting a hand over the handlebar stem area if you are carrying something in the other hand. Park by locating the front wheel in one of those L-shape wheel stands. Or, as I often do, drop the front into a trainer when you are working on the bike.
 

billyk

Guru
wheel flop is something different, but ...

"Wheel flop" to me is something different (the tendency of some bikes to oversteer because of too much trail), but I definitely notice the sheer mass of the front end when turning at low speed. Manuevering through crowds is a lot harder because of the effort needed to turn the front end. The whole bike is up there. (Nice conversions, by the way).
 

will_rifkin

New Member
One way to handle wheel flop ...

Here is how I am handling wheel flop with my Cruzbike conversion.

I connected short, stiff upholestery springs between the steering tube's lower bracket and the front rim of the seat.

I inserted a small, flat angle bracket into the clamp at the base of the steering tube, just above the headset. The angle bracket is a flat, L-shape used for wood projects. It has two holes on each arm. The two holes on the side against the steering tube do not line up with the two bolts in the clamp (note -- the bracket is jutting out from the steering tube). I cut off the hole that is farther from apex of the angle of the bracket. So, the bracket became a true L shape with the base of the L against the steering tube. The L is essentially lying on its back, like an astronaut, with its head pointed toward the seat.

Again, what was the 'vertical' part of the L is now horizontal and pointing toward the rider. It has a hole in it, two actually. Now, drill a hole in the front rim of the base of the seat. Put a bolt through this hole, such as a small eye-bolt. Or, bolt a bracket to the seat that gives you one open hole that is pointed toward the steering tube.

Now, you have two open holes that are about 8 centimetres apart. Visit the hardward store and get some short, stout springs, such as upholestery springs. They need to be very stiff (high spring rate) as they are working on a short lever arm. I actually used two short stiff springs hooked together to span the gap. You may need to use a long screwdriver to get the springs hooked up between the two holes.

With the springs in place, wrap the springs and any other exposed hardware in foam (such as the foam insulation for hot water pipes). That protects your family jewels from the exposed metal.

These springs are stiff enough to keep the front wheel from flopping much when walking the bike. They also slow down the steering response at low speeds in a good way. Further, they have almost no impact on steering at higher speeds.

For twitchiness at low speed, you actually need a steering damper. I have not made one of those yet. Basically, you need a piston in a cylinder with a small hole in the cylinder. Then, when you turn the handlebars slowly, the air in the cylinder escapes with little resistance. When you turn the bars quickly, the hole provides resistance. There is a company that makes a hydraulic steering damper for bicycles, but it works only on short stems, not the extended one on a Cruzbike.

Hope that is enlightening ... to someone.

Will
 

Rock

New Member
Will Rifkin, can you post photos?

Will,
Your description of your anti-flop system is very intriguing.

Can you send photos?
If you don't know how, John T says to use the picture icon, go to "upload" and browse for your photo (make sure it isn't too large a file).

Thanks ,
Rock
 

will_rifkin

New Member
photo of spring set up to reduce wheel flop

Rock,

You asked for a photo of the spring set up that I use to reduce wheel flop.

Here it is --

alt="Springs connected between lower steering tube bracket and seat to reduce wheel flop"
Steer-flop-spring-WR-3-12(1).jpg


As I described in my previous post, there are two, small upholestery springs linked between the lower clamp on the steering tube and the front of the seat pan. My description above was slightly off. I had said to use an L-bracket on the steering tube clamp, and I used a straight bracket (actually, a sawn-off L-bracket).

Here is a photo of the bike as a whole. You can see where the spring mechanism sits between the front of the seat's base and the lower clamp on the steering tube.

Also visible is the 250-watt electric motor on the rear wheel and the battery stuffed in behind the lower part of the seat back. At the rear of the bike is a top box made from the grass catcher of a lawnmower (something I found on the way to work one day). The rear door for the top box is the plastic lid of a toilet seat (where else can one find lightweight plastic hinges?).

The top box is mounted on the rear triangle in this photo. I have remounted it to the seat post so that it does not bounce up and down with the wheel (converting unsprung weight into sprung weight). This new seat post mount for the top box (not visible in this photo, of course) is made from an old stem (ahead stem type with an inner tube as a shim to fit the seat post) and handlebars that wrap around the front edge of the stop box.

alt="Cruzbike conversion with spring between seat & steering clamp, plus electric motor and top box"
Cruzbike-WR-3-12.jpg

 

Rock

New Member
Wheel flop & other things


Thanks for the photo Will.

Very clever spring ballance system. I assume the spring set does not overextend (go beyond their range) at full flop.

I would be most interested in your ideas for a shock absorber (steering damper). It would be great to have both spring and damper in one assembly (like a MacPherson auto strut).

Thanks again.
Rock
 

will_rifkin

New Member
steering damper from RC car shocks

Rock,

Had a quick look online for mountain bike shock absorbers that might make a suitable steering damper for a Cruzbike. They tend to be 6 inches long, and the space that we are looking at is 100mm, or 4 inches. That said, the shock could be attached on the seat pan farther back or under the seat, albeit at an angle. The shock might be too substantial for steering damping, though.

Shock absorbers for radio controlled cars do offer the 'coil-over-shock' set up that you mentioned. They tend to be pretty small, meaning both short and small in diameter. One could gang them up to obtain the right amount of springiness and damping. Just need to sort out how to make the connection on either end.

That could be my next project, finding a source in Sydney of shocks for RC cars. Should not be too expensive, either.

Good idea mentioning shock absorbers ...

Will
 
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