New Silvio.1

[fthills]

Hi , Ted i just reread your

Hi , Ted i just reread your last reply to Mick turning the bolt counterclockwise should loosen it. So you've done nothing wrong there. There is fixing hardware on the market now whose strength is just abysmal. I'm thinking here of wood screws for example that i now refuse to buy from the chain hardware stores . They can 't stand the slightest of amount of torque.
I'm lucky enough to be very close to specialist nuts and bolts store where i can specify the strength of any fixings I want. The paradox is that they are often cheaper than the chainstore stuff.

 

[fthills]

My previuos post may have

My previuos post may have implied you need a superstrong cap bolt. You don't. The bolt just needs to take up the slack so the steerer bearings sit in the head tube without play. Very little force is needed for this. To reiterate a previous point: the cap bolt plays no part in holding the fork in its proper place inside the head tube.

 

[Ted]

On more try at this with y'alls help, please ...

My LBS was super busy today so didn't even bother trying to have them fix it. When I informed one of the mechanics of the problem, he graciously gave me a replacement bolt, so now .... I'll try one more time to fix this, with y'alls help, hopefully ...

FTHILLS, could you possible post those pictures that you mentioned earlier? Perhaps that will help me understand exactly what is going on here.

There are 2 starnuts - when I unscrew and remove the top one from the bolt, it leaves me with about 10 mm to grab onto [with a pair of vise grips]. The second starnut is stuck just below the lip of the steerertube - is that what it's called? I've tried with the vise grips to unscrew, CCW, the bolt. Have even squirted a little penetrating liquid to help break it loose but without success. I sure don't want to twist off this 10mm stub.

What could make it so tight? Does that second starnut need to come out? Could that be holding it in?

Thanks for any help or information.

Ted

 

[Ted]

Have I completely ruined this fork & steerer tube?

Was able to "dig out" a star nut from the steerer tube - actually it popped out as digging at it. However, there is a third one below that. I managed to break the stub loose - it turns freely with the third star nut. However, it still won't come out.

Is it stripped down inside? Have I completely ruined this fork and steerer tube? Is it salvageable?

Ted

 

[fthills]

Star nuts are easily

Star nuts are easily replacebable . No drama at all. Unlikely to have damaged the steerer ,those things are pretty strong . I'll have pics up in the next 6 hrs.

 

[fthills]

Photos.

Hi Ted , its just occured to me that you might have the new version of the Silvio which may or may not have a different arrangement. But any way here are some photos:

 

[fthills]

 I stand corrected here but I

I stand corrected here but I dont seem able to edit my own posts. In this case what I want to do is add an explanatory not to each of the photos.

The top photo (very grainy ), is the stem with the top cap removed, The ruler is to show the difference in height between the top surface of the steerer ,in black vs the top of the steerer in shiny aluminium , in this case being 5 mm , probably if I had the right spacers , should be more like 2 mm.

Next photo down the three spacers are a total of 23mm by the ruler .

Third photo down ,cap off, star or claw nut in position ,inside the steering tube. The black tangs holding the nut in place are 6mm down from the top surface of the silver steerer , the nut itself is 12 mm down .

4th photo is a bit redundant , just gives a wider perspective of the whole assembly.

The last two shots show a side perspective of the completed assembly . The fifth one from the chain side , the last one from non drive side. If you need more let me know

 

[fthills]

here is a link to an online

here is a link to an online shop , headset section showing all manner of headset stuff and what you should expect to pay for it more or less if it needs replacing.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/SearchResults.aspx?Search=headsets&SortBy=salesrank

 

[mickjordan]

Spare Starnut

Ted, Did your Silvio come with a spare Starnut? Mine did. There was one already installed in the fork and a spare one that was packed with the headset bearings.

fthills photos look very similar to my Silvio 1.5 with regard to the headset setup.

Mick

 

[Ted]

Re:SPARE STARNUT

Yes Mick, it did come with a spare starnut. Unfortunately, I didn't know it was a "spare" and put it in the tube also. That's probably why I wasn't able to tighten up the bolt in the first place, even with all three of the spacers supplied.

I've got the spare starnut dug out, now trying to get the one that was pre-installed, out. However, I took the fork to an out-of-town bike shop this weekend to see what he thought. He suggested just driving the starnut, that's stuck in the tube now, down far enough to get another starnut placed on top of it in the tube.

Is that a valid option? If not, is there an "easy" way, or any way, to get that starnut out? Is there enough space lower in the tube so that bottom starnut won't interfere with anything?

You are right Mick, fthills pictures are very similar to what I have/had.

NOTE TO SELF OR ANYONE ELSE BUILDING UP THEIR OWN SILVIO (or any bicycle for that matter), heed the suggestion on page 2 of the Silvio assembly instructions: "If the details of a headset are new to you, two of many useful links explaining them are Sheldon Brown's authoritative glossary and this general description with diagrams that describe the Integrated Headset as found on the Silvio."

Probably could have saved myself all the grief, pain, and trouble I'm going through now, had I checked out Sheldon Brown's information first.

 

[mickjordan]

Re: spare Starnut

So I assume the original nut got pushed down when you installed the "spare" but they ended up jammed together, hence the bolt breaking problem? The bike shop recommendation seems fine to me. The header tube is pretty long and the headset bolt is quite short so it wouldn't need to move too far down to get it out of the way.

If you managed to get one nut out maybe you could get both out, but why bother if it's not necessary.

Mick

 

[John Tolhurst]

"He suggested just driving

"He suggested just driving the starnut, that's stuck in the tube now, down far enough to get another starnut placed on top of it in the tube.

Is that a valid option?"

Yes. But do check and make sure the bolt cannot reach the second, or you will systematically ruin the bolt's thread, without which it will not unscrew. And then you ahve to cut the top 20mm off the fork to remove the bolt and star nut together.

 

[fthills]

Park tools suggestion

Here is a link to the park tools website with some options

http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/star-fangled-nut-installation


My ipad doesn't have the facility to make it a clickable link but select , copy and paste should do it.

If you use their second suggestion BE VERY CAREFUL. When the drill bit comes into contact with the high tensile steel of the tangs , it may cause the driil bit to grip and violently reef the drills body out of your hands. You may severly damage your wrists.again be very careful. Banging the original starnut with a rubber mallet and a 3/4 inch bit of dowel seems the safest.

 

[Ted]

Thank You!

THANK YOU fthills, Mickjordan, and John Tolhurst for all your help with my starnut problem.

The guys, in the tool & die department of the manufacturing company where I work, were able to get it out for me.

Took the fork, along with the rest of the frameset I'd put together, to my LBS for him to finish building it up for me . He left the cables a little long and just taped them in a few places on the handlebar until I've had a chance to ride it a little. We got the leg, knee, and arm lenghts pretty well set before leaving it with him.

Got it home today. Now the fun part begins - learning to ride it ! Will be watching Kim's videos again. I'm hoping, if I can ride it most everday for the next three weeks, to be proficient enough to do the 12 hour event of the "24 Hours In The Canyon" the first weekend in June out in Amarillo, Texas.

Thanks again fthills, Mick, and John for your help.

Ted

 

[fthills]

The important thing is to get

The important thing is to get you on the bike ! Can't emphasise enough Kim's tutorials on how to ride the bike. The open hand bit is the crucial part. Will you make it with the Silvio for the Texas event ? If you do, a ride report would be terrific.

 

[Ted]

First ride

fthills, I believe I'll be able to ride the Silvio in the Texas event. Took the Silvio to a big empty parking lot this morning to practice riding around for about an hour. Also practiced starting from a complete stand-still - that seems a lot easier than on my Bacchetta Corsa. Heck, I've had the Corsa for three years and still can't start from a complete stand-still.

After practicing for about an hour, brought it back home, got my helmet and riding gloves; then went out on one of my regular rides which is about 8 miles (12.9 km) out and back. Since I still zig-zag a little, if a car is coming, I just stop pedaling and coast until it is passed by.

The ride includes one section about a mile (1.6km) long that is a gradual incline. Another short section of about a 1/4 mile (.4km) is a fairly steep hill. On the Corsa, I'd normally be working hard going up this section about 5mph (8km/h). Though the speedometer isn't installed yet, the Silvio seemed to be going up faster and it was noticeably easier ... though still a work out

! Don't know if that is because of the bike itself or different gearing between the Silvio and Corsa. I've got the Shimano Ultegra Triple. Have a triple on the Corsa too ...

Still need to tweek the leg length - perhaps a little longer, Maybe the handlebars and brifters too. Can't get my arms completely straight and the hands were getting a little numb, plus there was a noticeably effect on the shoulders and legs. These things may just be symptons of being fairly tensed up - yes, gotta try and relax ... with time

...

Going to have my pickup worked on tomorrow so plan to ride the Silvio to work - about 8 miles (12.9km) one way, all four lane highway without a lot of traffic, so that should help.

Ted

 

[Kim Tolhurst]

Cool, well done.

Hi Ted, Well done and, this has become a very interesting thread that I am sure many have followed.

press on,

Kim.

 

[mickjordan]

Re First Ride

Glad you finally got the Silvio assembled!

Intersting that you did your first training without the helmet! I wore mine 'cos 'I was scared of toppling over and cracking my head. Never got close though and you can get your (unclipped) feet down pretty fast. Might be a different story with clip-ins. But then I toppled over on my DF a couple of times initially with clip-ins.

Also interesting that you can start better than on the Bacchetta. I have several friends with those and hadn't heard of issues starting. I'm still not great starting on the Silvio but getting better. About 1 time in 5 the balance goes and I have to get the feet down fast. It's one of the things that makes me nervous about riding in traffic. The other is the wobble and I've done your idea of just coasting. But I'm still just riding in the 'hood at the moment.

I'm looking forward to converting over in due course for real rides. I'm still committed to riding my DF in events this year because it has S+S couplers and is easy to take abroad and I'm doing a ride in the UK in September. I did a 600K this weekend and, while my legs are fine, my neck/shoulders/hands/butt are very sore, most of which should be fixed by the Silvio.

However. I have noticed, as you have, that there is a different kind of arm/shoulder stress than on a DF. On a DF the good news is that you can lean on the bars. The bad news is that you have to. On a recumbent you can't and when I'm riding the Silvio I get some stress related to the steering counterbalance. Hopefully this goes away as the legs get more in tune with the FWD. Right now I can't take even one hand off the bar with confidence, which makes getting to a drink bottle challenging!