new to 'bents, question, knees...

[thartson]

Good morning.
I am a former tri-athlete. Rode Kestrel's. I live in Houstson. Flat here, though I go to the Hill Country for organized rides, like Hotter n Hell. I had knee surgery (medial meniscus was removed). Doc recommended a recumbent if I wanted to continue riding - no more running. Been researching CruzBikes. Specifically the v20c. Has anyone had experience with knee issues, and if so, did a recumbent help? I'd like to continue riding (typically 50 + miles). Thanks for any input. Tyler

 

[Psycholist]

Good morning.
I am a former tri-athlete. Rode Kestrel's. I live in Houstson. Flat here, though I go to the Hill Country for organized rides, like Hotter n Hell. I had knee surgery (medial meniscus was removed). Doc recommended a recumbent if I wanted to continue riding - no more running. Been researching CruzBikes. Specifically the v20c. Has anyone had experience with knee issues, and if so, did a recumbent help? I'd like to continue riding (typically 50 + miles). Thanks for any input. Tyler

I was a roady (time trial guy) for decades until I had to have cervical surgery for a variety of symptoms. I was advised to switch to recumbent and started riding an S40 about 3 months ago. It made my knees hurt until I learned a couple of important things. I rode 172.5 cranks on my road and TT bikes. Can’t do that on the S40. It’ll kill your knees. I went to 165s. Better, but still some knee pain. Went to 155s. Pain gone and I’ve not noticed any loss of power. In fact, probably the opposite.

The other thing (and I think it’s a big mistake a lot of Cruzbike people make from videos I’ve seen) is setting up with too much reach to the pedals … too much leg extension. It messes up your knees, your achilles and it makes it harder to steer.

FWIW

 

[Beano]

General consensus when riding a recumbent is that you want pedals with free float or a lot of float. Where on a road bike you can adjust your position on the saddle, on a recumbent you cannot do this as you hips are seated within the seat. So any alignment issues go through your knees hence why it is important to have pedals with free float.

My own recommendation is Speedlplay pedals.

 

[vosadrian]

I ride a V20 and still ride my upright bikes. The V20 is heaven for my back compared to my upright. But my knees and ankles and hips prefer the upright. My recommendation echoes above to use short cranks. This has improved pain in my hips/knees on both my upright and my V20. I run 155 cranks on the V20 and 165 on the upright. Then I think after that, experimenting with setup and particularly boom length to get knee angles right. Probably pedal selection and having cleats at mid shoe help also.

My thoughts are that the V20 is harder on my knees than my DF bike. But for me my back and butt feel much better. If you were getting a bent specifically for knee issues I wonder if a RWD would be a better choice than a MBB.... just because the MBB will give more lateral knee movement which may upset the knees if you have underlying issues.

I will say that the V20 is a very high performance bent, so if you want speed, it is a great choice. It is fun playing with the DF riders on flat courses... but stay away from racing them up hills!!

 

[bentinitalia]

Just built an S40 from a frameset. Extremely pleased with the ride and handling. (Came from a QX100.) I've not found any more or less stress on my knees than the Q, or diamond frame. Still, I wanted to put 155 cranks on the new bike, but couldn't find anything less than 165 here in Italy. And when I did find a source, "out of stock." Any suggestions where I can find short cranks? Particularly in the EU, since the cost of shipping, duty and VAT on items coming from outside the EU is outrageous.

 

[Bill Wightman]

My thoughts are that the V20 is harder on my knees than my DF bike

My personal experience is that I can do anything to my knees on the V20 as long as I am using Q-rings. I started using them on a DF at least 12 years ago for that reason.

 

[vosadrian]

Just built an S40 from a frameset. Extremely pleased with the ride and handling. (Came from a QX100.) I've not found any more or less stress on my knees than the Q, or diamond frame. Still, I wanted to put 155 cranks on the new bike, but couldn't find anything less than 165 here in Italy. And when I did find a source, "out of stock." Any suggestions where I can find short cranks? Particularly in the EU, since the cost of shipping, duty and VAT on items coming from outside the EU is outrageous.

I can't help with Italy. I use BBK cranks in Australia that are well priced and on Ebay, but the shipping may be high to Italy.

 

[CuHead]

Doctor assumes the recumbent is a more relaxed ride. Haha. I believe an upright bike is much more relaxed.

 

[DavidCH]

Just built an S40 from a frameset. Extremely pleased with the ride and handling. (Came from a QX100.) I've not found any more or less stress on my knees than the Q, or diamond frame. Still, I wanted to put 155 cranks on the new bike, but couldn't find anything less than 165 here in Italy. And when I did find a source, "out of stock." Any suggestions where I can find short cranks? Particularly in the EU, since the cost of shipping, duty and VAT on items coming from outside the EU is outrageous.

I have some sram rival cranks that I got cut down to 155 from 172. I haven't had a problem with them.

 

[Bill Wightman]

I believe an upright bike is much more relaxed.

I suppose a DF is more relaxed until it isn't. For most that starts at around 30 miles. After that the recumbent, V20 in my case, leaves me very relaxed with none of the DF contact and neck pains. There is more mental overhead with the CruzBike, but it is worth it. I also ride a heavy and tough trekking hardtail and love both bikes. The trekking bike lets you sit more upright and has a very cushy ride with 29 x 2.5" slick tires and articulated spring seat post. Very fun in grass, sand, and water.

 

[Bill Wightman]

Doc recommended a recumbent if I wanted to continue riding - no more running.

The Cruzbike (V20 since 2018 in my case) will be more gentle on your knees in because IMO you cannot apply the same peak loads like the DF in say a standing/sprinting position. The torque work through the cranks is more distributed over time. Also you may look into Q-Rings. Once I started using them I never looked back and have never had any knee issues. I have done limited triathlons, found out I swim like a catfish, not like a duck. So my knees were spared.

 

[Steve Heywood]

I suppose a DF is more relaxed until it isn't. For most that starts at around 30 miles. After that the recumbent, V20 in my case, leaves me very relaxed with none of the DF contact and neck pains. There is more mental overhead with the CruzBike, but it is worth it. I also ride a heavy and tough trekking hardtail and love both bikes. The trekking bike lets you sit more upright and has a very cushy ride with 29 x 2.5" slick tires and articulated spring seat post. Very fun in grass, sand, and water.

I do a regular double lap of mostly cycle paths here in the UK on weekdays.. 32 miles per day in total which takes on average around an hour and fifty minutes.. I’d never go back to a DF bike, I finish my ride tired and sweaty if I’ve pushed myself but never have a stiff neck, sore wrists or a sore backside…. I thoroughly enjoy my bents even if the weather’s not great

 

[Beano]

Doctor assumes the recumbent is a more relaxed ride. Haha. I believe an upright bike is much more relaxed.

With respect to the OP, I'd agree. Upright bikes are kinder to your knees, easier to move your hips on a saddle rather than within the seated position on a recumbent. That is why imo it is very important to get pedals that have free float given that your hips are locked in place.

 

[vosadrian]

I ride a V20 and a high end road bike both regularly. My knees and hips get more sore with the V20. My back gets more sore with the road bike. The more I stand up hills the less sore I feel. On the v20 on a moderate intensity ride my knees will a day or two after ( mainly around VMO). On a high intensity rod bike ride my knees feel fine.

 

[Bill Wightman]

I have always left the cleat float wide open on every bike I have ridden, recumbent or otherwise, maybe that is contributing to no knee issues ever on a bike. I do know that the only time I did have knee issues not on a bike was on an elliptical exercise machine. I think it was similar to the float issue where on the elliptical machine you just go back and forth with no variation in position.

 

[vosadrian]

I use the higher float cleats and same shoes ( and pedal type) on V20 and road bike. It is not the float that is my issue. It is just riding a bent for me is all in the quads which work the knees hard. Upright bike have me moving around a lot which eases the knees. I stand a lot on road bike and his helps me a lot in moving the load around my body rather than all quads.

 

[2whluge]

Spin more, mash less. It’s really easy to push back against a solid seat back but my knees yell at me.

 

[benphyr]

Spin more, mash less. It’s really easy to push back against a solid seat back but my knees yell at me.

@thartson This is absolutely true. Spinning decreases the force on everything including the knees. As a triathlete you probably already know that. If variety of motion is good in your situation then a Cruzbike will be better than a rear wheel recumbent because the hip angle can change throughout the pedal stroke and from one pedal stroke to the next and there is much greater recruitment of the arms, shoulders, and core.

I have a friend on my online team, ATP Racing, who is an owner of a large fitness gym in Vancouver. He leads fitness classes online for some of us to improve the off-bike strength and flexibility and oppose the T-rex musculature of cyclists. He has helped several members that are recovering from injury with adapting workouts to their situations. You are welcome to direct message me and I can connect you to the classes or him directly. (Anyone else is welcome to those classes too, they are hard but good and ridiculously cheap.)

 

[Beano]

I use the higher float cleats and same shoes ( and pedal type) on V20 and road bike. It is not the float that is my issue. It is just riding a bent for me is all in the quads which work the knees hard. Upright bike have me moving around a lot which eases the knees. I stand a lot on road bike and his helps me a lot in moving the load around my body rather than all quads.

High Pedaling Cadence | 53x12

www.53x12.com

 

[vosadrian]

You are all totally correct about cadence. But I am no grinder. typically I average around 90 cadence on both my bikes... higher when going for it. I probably spin a little faster on the V20 than road bike due to shorter cranks.

My point in coming here was just to state that in my case with about 15 years of solid road bike riding (5-10k kms a year) and a couple years of V20 riding, my knees (and hips) hurt me more after riding the V20 than the road bike. Could be I am just better conditioned to traditional upright bikes since I have done it much longer. I think in my case, the difference in muscle recruitment of a bent does not work well for my body. I should also say that I am no cruiser when I ride either bike. I typically ride at fairly high pace. I wonder whether my conditioning for the road bike has me quite fit compared to most first starting riding a V20, so I am able to push the muscles harder without them being as "adapted" to the bent position. Had I started the V20 from a low fitness state, I may have started slower and built up slowly which may have been better?