Paris or bust ... probably bust

[Mwhwsmith]

Hi ... my V20 frameset arrives tomorrow and I thought I should introduce myself as I am sure I will come to rely on your advice in the coming months.

Firstly, a little background: I have never ridden a recumbent bicycle before and my prior cycling experience has been limited to an entry level Trek MTB with a trailer or tagalong attached for the kids. A couple of months ago a colleague suggested a group of us do a charity cycle ride from London to Paris this summer - which seemed like fun so I signed up. I then discovered the organizers don't allow MTBs on the trip so I will need a new bike - clearly my current bike is not up to the job.

I also started to reflect on whether I am up to the task. I am an aging (40yr old) but enthusiastic skier - for which you can read injury and accident prone. I have suffered a broken ankle, broken knee, torn ligaments, loose ligaments, broken thumb, ACL reconstruction (although not a good job) and I used to suffer from asthma. I have never ridden further than ~25km and on my current MTB, after about 30mins in the saddle, I get pain in my hands/wrists/lower back etc. While I'm not particularly out-of-shape in appearance, I am certainly not well maintained, and I started to doubt I would make it to the English Channel - let alone Paris.

I then remembered a friend of mine from 20+ years ago who was very enthusiastic about the benefits of recumbent bicycles - so much so that he built his own out of square section aluminium, solid/milled ally brackets and a plastic garden chair. It wasn't pretty but he loved it and my inner nerd has always quite liked the idea of this type of engineering and so there has always been a bit of me that quite wanted one. I started my online research and was drawn to the cruzbike because of the elegance of the design.

So I scratched the itch and bought a Vendetta (frameset). If I'm honest, I should probably have bought a Silvio - but they were out of stock at the time - so I bought a Vendetta. To paraphrase someone on this forum: whoever finds themselves wanting a heavier slower bike a few months later - so what have I got to lose?!?

So now I find myself with a daunting list of challenges ... a few 'firsts' if you like:

• I need to build my bicycle - I haven't done that before but it sounds fun
• I need to learn how to ride it - I have now read a few posts suggesting this can take some time to do
• I need to then cycle it ~10x further than I have every ridden before in aid of charity and under the scrutiny of colleagues
• I then need to keep riding it thereafter

I'm sure there a few people who will read this and shake their heads at what could turn out to be a rather expensive series of mistakes on my part. However, it is roughly three months until the ride to Paris, so I think (or rather 'hope') I have plenty of time to do this properly.

That's enough for one post ... I need to start researching wheels and group-set and will post an update on first impressions of the frame set when it arrives and my likely spec for the rest of the build.

Very excited,
Mike

 

[1happyreader]

oh,,, time is your enemy

Mike,

IMHO,,, You need to get your bike built and ride ready within ONE WEEK of receiving your frame. ( 7 SEVEN DAYS ).

It means buying your components in advance. (oops, you did say tomorrows delivery )

A Plain Jane vanilla build will be required.

What is IN STOCK, and what has been proven to work by others.

And a LBS (Local Bike Shop) who will install everything except the headrest ,the seat and the fitting, in 1/10th the time it would take you to trial and error.

Does your bike mechanic take appointments, have a favorite beer, can you get him to look at the assembly pdf before crunch time so he can be comfortable with his portion of a non-standard build ?

Whew,,, takes the joy out of research and my first build,,,, but it could be the best path to follow.

*******************************
Learning to ride in a straight line is easy.

Have the mindset of a child finding out what a new toy does.
Pay attention to what the bike wants you to do rather than forcing the the bike to behave in a certain way.

Spend three times as much effort learning Low ,,, SLOOOWWW speed turns, almost stops, how your posture and balance can change things, ect. It will pay off .

best wishes

 

[chrisblessing]

Ditto 1happyreaderTimo

As you have so many aspects to this ride that need to be dealt with I'm with Timothy; have your LBS do the build so you can focus on riding and getting in shape for your tour.

Perhaps the mechanic will allow you to be present for, and maybe participate in, the assembly, enabling you to learn the fundamentals of the components, how they work, and cleaning and maintenance. But you do need to get the thing built out in pretty short order.

Search YouTube for "learning to ride a Cruzbike". They're well done and will save you hours/days of exasperation. And as soon as the Vendetta is ready, get to work.

Good luck with the journey. It sounds like great fun.

Chris

 

[hurri47]

I would double-check whether

I would double-check whether recumbents are permitted in this ride. I have never hear of excluding mountain bikes (and I am not coming up with any reasonable grounds for doing so), but recumbent exclusions happen with disturbing frequency in the US.

If you do indeed get to go, and on a Vendetta, just know there is at least one jealous guy cheering for you.

-Dan

 

[Robert Holler]

If you have any questions on

If you have any questions on what will or won't work - please call or email me at support@cruzbike.com.

My advice: build with what works and don't experiment on a first build. Take a review of the complete bike specs (S30 and V20) for an idea of components.

If in doubt just ask us or here on the forum - the amount of resources and people willing to help out in the Cruzbike community is awesome!

Robert

 

[LMT]

It can be done, quite easily

It can be done, quite easily imo.

Are you based in the UK? If so buy an Ultegra groupset from CRC or Merlin cycles, these are currently going for £500 and would be more than capable for what you want. A LBS should be able to advise on a decent set of wheels and build the bike for you. After this it's just a case of learning to ride the bike and this will kill two birds with one stone as you'll also be training for the ride.

There's plenty of step by step info here on this website and on others on how to get started, however IME:-

- Make sure the bike fits, a well fitted bike is so much easier to ride
- Look at the horizon, not at the pedals when starting out.
- Try to relax
- Start off somewhere quiet, a car park or such
- Be patient, you'll need to learn again how to ride a bike. It took me at least a couple of weeks to learn to ride my Low Baron proficiently when I got it.

 

[Mwhwsmith]

Great advice - thank you


Many thanks - this is great advice.

I had already been in touch with my LBS - fortunately there is an excellent one a few hundred yards from my house. I was going to source the components through them and I have already spoken to them about the project. We had also spoken about keeping it similar to the standard build spec. Given the words of caution/realism on here, I will ask them do the building also - although I would like to be closely involved so I know how it all works / fits together for future maintenance/development.

The frame has not arrived yet, but assuming it does my plan is to pop by tomorrow so they could look over the frame-set and work through the details of the spec. However my start point was to go for some rather nice FFWD wheels (perhaps F6R/D) and a Shimano Ultegra 6800 group-set (consistent with leetaylor55's advise). I'm assuming the choice of wheels is fairly straight forward - although I'm aware the wheels I'm looking at have a modestly lower spoke count vs the Cruzbike Aero 67s - they are a recommendation from a rather serious cycling colleague. I also saw from this forum there are several people using Shimano Ultegra so I hope this is a well trodden route and should therefore be reasonably straight-forward - although I believe I may need some clamps for the bottom bracket.

In terms of cassette and chainset - I was going to match the gearing on the Cruzbike standard build ie. an 11-32 cassette and I need to figure out what the sizes are on the standard chainset.

Do I need to be thinking about anything else?

Robert - thank you for the offer to review the spec. Hopefully I will leave my LBS tomorrow with a detailed spec sheet so I will ping that to you immediately thereafter in case I'm falling into any obvious mistakes.

In terms of restrictions on the ride - it is not a competitive event in any way - so I suspect the any restrictions/guidance is there to make it easier for them to support the riders (I guess less variation in spare parts they need to bring). It may also be to make it easier to manage the overall pace. I will check though.

I'm looking forward to learning to ride it ... my local railway station car-park is very quiet on weekends and has a long steady incline to help the first attempts.

Many thanks
Mike

 

[Mwhwsmith]

It's arrived


It's here ... very happy and excited.

Is there an assembly manual I can download. I can;t seem to find it on this site?

Thanks
Mike

 

[ratz]

Assembly Guide

Robert said the v20 manual was close to done but got delay just a bit.

But you cat get you need with the V 2.0/1.5 stuff

http://cruzbike.com/VendettaAssemblyManualV2.0.pdf
http://cruzbike.com/VendettaAssemblyNotes.pdf

Then see these photos for the new headrest.
http://cruzbike.com/another-v20-build-adventure#comment-30163


The S30 and V20 now use the same boom and pressfit derailuer hanger which can be learned about in the S30 documentation.

http://cruzbike.com/sites/default/files/documentation/Silvio%20S30%20Assembly%20Notes%20version%202.2.pdf

 

[Supertramp]

Do I need to be thinking

Do I need to be thinking about anything else?

If your frameset has the medium or large chainstays, you'll need two lengths of chain. A 500mm (medium) chainstay will require 120 chain links for a short der. cage and 53/25 largest chainring and sprocket combination.

And you may or may not profit from using shorter cranks than usual for a road bike. YMMV - I'm happy with cranks shortened to 156mm. Those made my initial knee pain after switching to the V almost disappear. But that is something to work on for the time after the tour.

Clipless pedals are the single most important improvement on any recumbent, since you don't have to worry about dropping your feet from the pedals. I suggest to plant the bike in a trainer* and practice unclipping until you're used to that motion. There are some from Shimano (Click'R) that will release in multiple ways, without much effort.

*) Another item to buy at your LBS with your bike at hand, the V front quick release is longer than usual and may not fit in some trainers.


Congrats on your purchase, you've chosen the right bike for gaining overall physical fitness. It will build up and stabilize the whole body, unlike most other bents.

 

[Mwhwsmith]

Group-set spec details


Ratz - Thank you ... very helpful and I have shared with my LBS.

So I now have a feel for the spec for the build (I won't be doing this!).

Groupset:

BB: Shimano BB-R60 11 Speed Cups (Ultegra 6800/105 5800)
Cassette: Shimano 11-32, 11 Spd Ultegra 6800
Chain: Shimano 11 Spd HG700 (6800 Ultegra)
Chainset: Shimano Ultegra Double 6800 11 Spd Chainset (172.5mm cranks, 34t/50t)
Front Derailleur: Braze on Shimano Ultegra 6800 11 Speed Double Front Derailleur
Rear Derailleur: Shimano Ultegra 6800 11 Spd Rear Gear (GS Medium)
Levers: Shimano STI Levers Ultegra 6800 11Spd w/cables

Wheels:
Fast Forward F4R-C (for Shimano 11-speed)

Is this a sufficiently 'Plain Jane' spec or am I setting myself up for some complexity / problems? Also, how does the gearing (cassette, chain-set and cranks) compare to the standard V20 complete spec? I couldn't find the crank length and chainset specs for the V20 complete. If it helps you have an opinion, I am 5'10" with an X-seam of 40"; the terrain around here is reasonably flat with a few modest hills; most hills are <1 mile and not too steep.

Many thanks
Mike

 

[1happyreader]

plain jane

Mike,

your groupset makes me drool.

Is Shimano the company that reduced the outer diameter of their bb cups ?

Let us know if shims or different BB were needed.

luv to hear about fitting and your pedal length.

I am 5'10" 41" x-seam, but on a Sofrider where the bars and the knees are sharing the same space.
Changing from 160mm to 165mm put my knees 10mm closer to the bar, any more and I think I would be looking for a different angle on the stem.

best wishes,

keep your chin up and smile.

 

[ratz]

At 5'10" 40" inseam

At 5'10" 40" inseam you are a dead match for me.
I'd wager dollars to donuts that you will eventually want 155-165mm cranks 172.5 give a lot of hip throw/travel per revolution I personally find that really inefficient and uncomfortable. 165mm is just bearable for me. I'm looking at alternatives to get to 160mm.

You will need two chains as noted above.

Your 50T/34T paired with an 11-32 on a V20 will climb like a goat; so you should be fine for climbs that don't exceed 5% for multiple miles and up to 12% for a quarter mile. My reference for that is most of my outdoor rides are 3k of climbing over 1.5 hours. On a Silvio I need a 52/36 paired with a 11-32. On the Vendetta on the same courses a 52/36 with a 12-28 does just as well. The V just climbs better (NOTE: you do have to pace yourself it's easy to redline a climb on a Vendetta which is odd on a Recumbent where the knees are usually the limit versus the heart rate). You won't be able to go higher than 32T on your GS Derailleur without doing a post factor modification. Since you plan to go Di2 later you will be stuck like that anyhow.

Clipsless is as noted above is the right way to go. I'm firmly in the camp of beginners getting SpeedPlay frogs if you can afford them. You take that mountain bike pedal and open it up and swap the spindles left and right; and you get IMO the best entry level recumbent pedal. Totally Easy clip in, exit both direction, 100% friction free float to protect your knees; and MTB shoes for walking.

You didn't mention brakes. If you are going rim brakes have them mount your Rear Brake on the UPPER mount. It's meant for TT style brakes but it will fit. This has a huge advantage for ultra distances; it will leave your lower triangle completely open. That is a great spot to mount a bag for food and supplies; and it will not interfere with the water bottle position. You will need a tight bend in the brake cable or a spagehtti noodle if using traditional frame brakes. It looks suboptimal when installed but really has zero impact on the braking force you can get to to the rear wheel.

 

[LMT]

That groupset is by no means

That groupset should be easy enough to fit and would not look out of place on a DF costing £2.5-3.5k. Please do keep us posted with pics and your progress regarding the London - Paris ride. I myself should hopefully get a Vendetta framekit next week, looking at EMS the frame is currently at Coventry, it had it's customs inspection yesterday so I'm hoping it should be with me by the end of next week. Like yourself I've gone with Ultegra throughout and Kysrium SL Pro disks for wheels. Still undecided on whether to fit round or Q rings.

 

[Mwhwsmith]

Ratz - oops, yes forgot the


Ratz - oops, yes forgot the details of brakes - these will be the 6800 brake set ie. rim brakes. I will have a chat with my LBS about fitting as you describe. Will see if they are comfortable doing that.

Leetaylor55: I found tracking the arrival of the frame builds the excitement. I was considering the Mavic wheels on the recommendation of a friend - however I never really considered using disk brakes. Looking forward to seeing a photo of the finished set-up.

 

[super slim]

Would Sram Apex double

Would Sram Apex double crankset shortened to 153 mm by Bikesmith and using Qrings for 11 speed chain be another option

 

[Robert Holler]

That is going to be a sweet

That is going to be a sweet build.

I agree with RATZ on the gearing, especially after you become comfortable and stronger on the bike.

Robert

 

[Mwhwsmith]

A bump in the road ...


Looks like my LBS is struggling to source the wheels I wanted: Fast Forward F4R-C (White) clinchers - it appears they are out of stock with their wholesaler and won't be in for a few weeks. So I need to find an alternative ...

So I have two questions:

a) Is the Vendetta any 'harder' of wheels than a regular bike? (perhaps due to being a little heavier than a DF bike). Do I need to be wary of buying a wheel that is too fragile?

b) Any recommendation / reason why a set of Fulcrum Red Wind 50mm Carbon Clinchers wouldn't be a good choice?

Many thanks
Mike

 

[ratz]

Recumbents in general are more tolerant of wheels

Recumbents in general are more tolerant of wheels; you don't get out of the saddle and "rock" the bike like you do on a DF bike. So light and fast is the order of the day. Probably want to stick with something 23-25mm wide in the rim to get the best of the emerging science. A super deal on a 19mm-21mm rim probably isn't really a deal.

For name brand (not no name asian) you should be fine. If you go no name you really have to test to be sure.

People here have used successfully (in no particular order)

Crzubike OEM Wheels
http://www.flocycling.com
http://www.bontrager.com
http://www.velocityusa.com
http://www.industrynine.net

then there are the pricer options

Zip
Reynolds
Shimano
HED
Mavic
Easton
Fulcrum

This was a good article from spring:

http://intheknowcycling.com/2014/04/29/best-all-around-road-bike-wheels/
http://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/bikes-and-gear-features/6-high-performance-carbon-road-wheels

I'd probably go Flo or industry Nine; for tube setups; I'm riding Bontrager for tubeless and because of good ebay deals on take-offs.

 

[Mwhwsmith]

Decisions ...


This is all helpful ... however I confess I have gone for some 50mm deep Fulcrum Red Wind wheels.

I know they add some weight and potentially some instability in X-winds - but they do look good (IMHO). I have also promised myself I will lose 2lbs of excess stored energy thereby giving me a 600g total weight saving on the deal.

Looks like the wheels will arrive tomorrow so the bike should be ready before next weekend ...

Very, very excited now ...
Mike