Pedaling efficiency and foot position

[cruzKurt]

Cold weather is here and Today and Yesterday I rode my v20 on my Wahoo Kickr Trainer.

I am using ERG mode on Wahoo RGT and had it set on 110w. I noticed if I roll my foot forward as I pedal it is easier. So if you can imagine at the top of the arc of my pedal stroke my toe is more forward than my heel. I tested this throughout a 1.5 hour ride and it is definitely easier to produce power this way, or at least the perception is so. Trying to think if there is an adjustment or something I can do or should do. Diagram below of what I am trying to say.

 

[Henri]

I have observed similar on different recumbent bikes. Might be easier to stabilize the ankle that way, as the point of contact is less far away from the exdended line of the lower leg. This would probably be mitigatable by training your ankle/calv, but I don't know if that is needed.
Could also be a sign of the bottom bracket being set too far away.

 

[Jeffers]

It would depend a lot on your fore and aft cleat placement.

 

[cruzKurt]

It would depend a lot on your fore and aft cleat placement.

Not sure what you mean, my cleats are nearer midfoot than forefoot. But this observation has got me thinking I might try them on the forefoot.

 

[DavidCH]

I think it might be more important what the foot is doing at 3 o'clock. Is it fully extended or else? Probably depends on the size of the crank

 

[Jeffers]

Not sure what you mean, my cleats are nearer midfoot than forefoot. But this observation has got me thinking I might try them on the forefoot.

If your cleats are higher, then that toe forward position would mean you're ankling, [using your calves more to help push the pedal forward].
If your cleats are further down, like midfoot. Your foot could just be pivoting around the pedal as you push.

Not saying there's anything wrong with either for you.

In my case, I had my cleats back on the TT bike. Then about a year into riding my low racer, I moved the cleats further forward because it allowed me to use a little more leg extension, and lessen my knee bend at the top of the stroke.

I just noticed that you can sorta' see my cleat position in my new avatar.

 

[cruzKurt]

If your cleats are higher,...

So this morning, I moved my pedals farther away by about 4 cm or so. It seemed to lessen the disparity between pushing with my toes and pushing perpendicular to crank movement like the picture above. I think tomorrow I might move my cleats forward on my shoes and try that. Trying to think about the geometry it seems like my feet/ankles tend to like a more toe forward orientation. I think cleat position might be important here.

 

[Jeffers]

I adjust my boom/pedal reach in 1mm increments these days. With a mark on my boom & calipers.
I only moved my cleats up 5mm, but I could sure feel it in my calves during the first hundred miles or so.
I must not have been using my calves much at all with the cleats just 5mm back from where they are now.

 

[cruzKurt]

I adjust my boom/pedal reach in 1mm increments these days. With a mark on my boom & calipers.
I only moved my cleats up 5mm, but I could sure feel it in my calves during the first hundred miles or so.
I must not have been using my calves much at all with the cleats just 5mm back from where they are now.

Thanks, I actually did a few adjustments this morning, this is my trainer v20, so I have not done any significant riding on it recently.

My road v20 is a different bike.

 

[cruzKurt]

So I moved my cleats from mid foot to fore foot today and rode a bit on the trainer, seems like a lot of numbness in my fore foot in this position, not sure I don't need to go back to mid foot. It is always something.

 

[Henri]

Forefoot you need to be precise, place it under the ball of the foot. A bit further back (or a lot) is no problem but too far forward is bad.