Pinion gearbox

[kizarmynot]

Looks like Andy isn't answering. I'm in the process of adding a Rohloff to my Q45. So far, the only modification has been with the derailleur hanger. It's too thick and had to be thinned a little bit. I'm not sure, but I think the LBS said all they had to do is scrape the paint of the inside of the fork/chainstay. The other troubling problem is with the shifter. I prefer the shifter to be just below the brake on the right side, but it's too thick. My choices are to have it hanging off the end of the bar or placed next to the handlebar neck. I'm choosing the former as the latter would be to much of a pain to reach every time I want to shift. We'll see how that goes. I'm staying with a chain rather than a belt, so I have a chain tensioner hanging off the derailleur hanger. I don't have the bike back from the LBS yet, but when I do, I'll come back and give a breakdown on it and a review on how it's working.

Looking forward to your followup. I installed a mechanical GX 12 speed a few months ago and was pleasantly surprised at the shifting, BUT I'd really like to get a Rholoff.
There are alternative shifters out there. Cinq5 and Rohbox are two I had bookmarked.

 

[Black Hawk Down]

Cinq5 doesn't look like something that I would want, but the Rohbox does look interesting. I plan to accept the bike with the bar end shifter, since it was already ordered, and later decide on upgrading to a Rohbox. I do like the Rohbox. Thanks for the tip.

 

[synchro]

I tried putting the Rohloff shifter onto the end of the T50 handlebar with the direction of shift and the numbers reversed. A subsequent fall to the right saw the shifter go into the dirt. That kinked the shifter cable outer shell so I moved the shifter back to above the shortened grip. The cable brake is attached to the bars inwards from the shifter. So on the right side from the middle outwards its; brake, shifter then shortened grip. The shifter is part of the overall hand grip area so no extra movement required to shift. And braking and shifting together is doable.

 

[Black Hawk Down]

I get my Q45 with Rohloff Wed/Thur this week. Stay tuned.

 

[Animal494]

I get my Q45 with Rohloff Wed/Thur this week. Stay tuned.

Popcorn ready!!

 

[Black Hawk Down]

I got to take it for a ride today. It's not quite finished but it needed a test ride. The bike mechanic can't ride CruzBikes. It was a little disappointing. The shifter was a little sloppy. I expected it to be very precise and easy. It was difficult at times to shift. You have to take pressure off the peddles before shifting. I'm not used to doing that. I'm not sure how you can downshift while cranking up a steep hill. This is going to take some getting used to.

I definitely don't like the shifter location. It's on the end of the right side of the handlebar. You have to move your hand down to shift which loses your ability to hold on to the bar with your right hand. There is an alternative shifter that uses paddles on left and right sides of the handlebars. It's called Gebla Rohbox. I plan to try this out as it's a lot more like I'm used to with Shimano DI2 and SRAM AXS. It's not electric but it has a similar shifting method using brifters. It's about $500 - $600 upgrade. Ouch. I might be able to sell the current shifter. It cost $250.

The gearing was too low so the LBS is swapping the rear cog. Once I get the bike, I'll do a photoshoot and post it. I'll also post the costs associated with the upgrade.

 

[Henri]

The shifter was a little sloppy. I expected it to be very precise and easy.

Speedhub has the undexing in the hub, not the shifter. Actually that makes shifting more precise, because you can not misaligne the indexing. Spin the shifter however and the hub will be in a gear. (This is great when the cagle become sloppy and it is what enables the Rohbox to exist.)
But the feeling in your hand is quite remote, it has to feel through the cables. For hand feel it's important, that the cables don't have play (shifter wobbles back and forth), but also are not too tight (shifter spins without noticable "bumps" for the indexing). Also of course quality cables and outers with no compression and little friction as well as routing as short as possible and with few bends and no sharp bends. And then there are different handles for the shifter. Maybe another one gives you a better feel. There are some out of aluminum instead of rubber, this could give a "sharper" feel to it. I sometimes grab the stiffer "top end" of my original rubber shifter for better feeling.

It was difficult at times to shift. You have to take pressure off the peddles before shifting. I'm not used to doing that. I'm not sure how you can downshift while cranking up a steep hill.

Yeah, with pressure on the pedals it resists shifting. If you force it anyway, it may not disengage all the gears and you end up at a higher speed than you wanted. (I m told this is a protection method to prevent multiple speeds being engaged while turning, which would create big stress - and stop your pedaling.)
It's easier if you are not trained for "round pedaling". It you are a "stomper", you have a pronounced dead point with ine leg extended and one compressed. At this point you could quickly shift and when getting used to it, you can momentarily stopp the pedaling completely for just the tiniest moment. A precise hand feel from a well set-up shifter / cables should help to increase the speed of a precise shift.
When it is so steep, you will significantly lose speed in the moment of shifting, you might want to just shift two speeds at once.

There is an alternative shifter that uses paddles on left and right sides of the handlebars. It's called Gebla Rohbox. […] It's about $500 - $600 upgrade.

I am thinking about that one as well (for another bike). I don't really like twist shifters and how to integrate them into a cockpit. I think you should be able to use about any not indexed cable puller that returns. They sell some modified shifters and brifters that are a bit expensive. Your upgrade cost includes those? I wonder if you could just use levers for dropper posts or even brake levers or anything similar. I think you could improve the cost a bit by using something more readily available, especially if you would import a modified shifter from Germany to the USA. Rohbox itself I see at €219 (including German taxes)? Add two non special levers and maybe the cables and outers. Less that $300 including shipping, excluding import taxes?
There is also the electronic Sternshift, starting from €700.

 

[Black Hawk Down]

Speedhub has the undexing in the hub, not the shifter.

Yes. I know. I was referring to the sloppiness of the twist shifter and possibly the cable. The cable and housing is of high quality and well routed. It doesn't move at all while shifting. I don't like how much I have to twist the shifter before getting any response at the hub.

They sell some modified shifters and brifters that are a bit expensive. Your upgrade cost includes those?

Yes. I realize that you can use any brifters but you have to make some modifications that I don't want to deal with. I'd rather pay extra for a turnkey solution.

There is also the electronic Sternshift, starting from €700.

That's a little too expensive. Manual should work fine.

Thanks for your input and suggestions.

 

[kizarmynot]

You have to take pressure off the peddles before shifting. I'm not used to doing that. I'm not sure how you can downshift while cranking up a steep hill. This is going to take some getting used to.

I have Rohloff on a DF bike (unfortunately can't ride any longer). It did take some time to learn about the shifting, but once I got it it was second nature. Even going up a hill I found that one hard mash would provide enough momentum to ease off the torque and shift. I look forward to hearing more about the post-conversion ride.

 

[Black Hawk Down]

I have Rohloff on a DF bike (unfortunately can't ride any longer).

You must have a CruzBike as you are here. You can move the Rohloff over to your CruzBike with a little effort.

 

[Henri]

Yes. I know.

I needed that sentence as an introduction, for the rest to make sense.

I was referring to the sloppiness of the twist shifter and possibly the cable.

I am still not sure what you mean by "sloppy"
- There is wiggle room in the shifter (missing cable tension)
- not enough tactile bump when shifting (personal preference or too much cable tension or too much friction)
- The indexing does not click. The bump in shifting is more a coming to rest in a groove than a snapping into place. (Personal preference and what you are used to - Won't change with Robox and brifters, I guess. You might get the known kind of paddle movement, but the same Speedhub style tactile feedback. I havent felt it before, but try to make sure it gives you what you want, before you spend the money and time.)

It doesn't move at all while shifting.

The outer housing? I wouldn't have expected that to move?

I don't like how much I have to twist the shifter before getting any response at the hub.

Is that an explanation of what you call sloppy or a seperate problem? With "response" do you mean a tactile feedback or a gear shift? Are you talking about empty movement of the shifter before you get to the part where shifting happens (wiggle room) or the fixed ratio of degrees rotation per shift?
Personally I can make six shifts with one movement - which is well beyond a 200%, so a halving or doubling of cadence. If at all I would rather have more degrees per shift to reduce the torgue needed so it's less abrasive on my hand.

 

[Black Hawk Down]

I mean that the shifter grip moves too much when I twist it before it engages to change gears. That's what I mean by sloppy. I expected better response from the shifter. I was able to ride it today and I'm getting used to the shifter but it's still difficult to shift when putting any pressure on the pedals. I have to stop pedaling and sometimes twist the shifter back and forth to get it to shift to another gear. I think I will get used to it but it will never be as good as my Ultegra DI2 shifting. I got the Rohloff because I will be touring on dirt roads in Alaska (Dalton Hwy) that gets muddy and it sticks to the drive train, sometimes causing broken chains and derailleurs. I'm hoping the Rohloff will be durable and trouble free. I can put up with less than optimal shifting as long as I can make it work. Going up 12% grades while trying to downshift is going to be a challenge.

Another challenge is getting the wheel off and back on, should I need to on the side of the road. It's very difficult to align everything when putting the wheel back on. More so than the Q45 already is.

 

[kizarmynot]

You must have a CruzBike as you are here. You can move the Rohloff over to your CruzBike with a little effort.

I contacted Peter White about that. The DF is a QR axle and a different width so it would require quite a bit of work to convert it. He had looked into it before and the cost was significant so I decided not to pursue it. Ah well.

 

[Black Hawk Down]

I contacted Peter White about that. The DF is a QR axle and a different width so it would require quite a bit of work to convert it. He had looked into it before and the cost was significant so I decided not to pursue it. Ah well.

Yes. You would have to work with an LBS as Rohloff won't work with individuals. The LBS would have to order a fitment kit from Rohloff to size up your bike. The measurements get sent back to Rohloff and they send a kit of fixtures tuned for your bike. Depending on what twist shifter you chose for the DF, you may need a different one for the CB. Also, I had to purchase a chain tensioner, new brake levers, a new rim and wheel build cost, a new chainring, The costs include the measurement kit, upgrade fixtures, shifter and the LBS labor. Nothing is cheap when it comes to Rohloff. But when you're done, you have a very reliable drivetrain that should last the life of your bike.

The Fitment kit cost $85. After the measurements are taken, the LBS and Rohloff will decide if your bike is capable of a SpeedHub conversion. My LBS had to make a few modifications to make it work. I was lucky he was willing to do that as some LBS's will stop if they hit a roadblock. My total conversion costs were $2488. And, I may still change out the twist shifter for a Gebla Rohbox which will be another $500+.