Push or Pull?

[Ivan]

I am new Silvio rider and totally new to recumbents. I pull on the bars naturally when starting the bike and going uphill, but what about the flats? I can't figure out what is the most efficient to do and whether I should be pushing instead? The learning to ride instructions talk about "open palms" which seems to me to be about pushing, but I hardly find myself doing that.

Others have mentioned pull on bars going uphill and push bars on flats. Currently when I pedal forward with my right foot I simultaneously pull with right arm. Does that mean if I am pushing, I should push with my LEFT arm when I pedal forward with my RIGHT foot? Or are you all putting constant pushing pressure with both arms?

 

[Jeremy S]

I paid attention to this

I paid attention to this recently since I never used the "open palms" technique that others have recommended. I seem to mainly pull on the bars, regardless of terrain. Pushing seems to work too, but feels a little unnatural to me at present.

I think your assumption of how pushing works is correct. I don't see how you can correct for pedal steer while pushing with your right foot by pushing with your right hand; any pushing force from your right hand in that situation is probably wasted effort.

I imagine one could efficiently push and pull with opposite hands.

 

[MrSteve]

More Cruzing Tips

The open palms technique accomplishes at least two things.
Most importantly, you can't grip the handlebars too strongly, when you're using open palms -no death grip.
Almost as importantly, the open palms technique teaches you to use your triceps,
which are much stronger muscles than your biceps are.

Here are a few more advanced tips I typed up in response to, 'Steamer' on another forum:

-----

Originally Posted by steamer
How does one explain this sentiment:



...which I have read repeatedly from various Cruzbike owners.

I will accept this as fact.

So if, under certain riding conditions, you don't use your arms to offset the net moment about the steering axis, how does one do it using only the legs?

Let's say as the right leg pushes foward in the power stroke, what is the left leg doing to compensate and prevent a strong left turn of the bike? Is it pushing foward too? If so, how does that affect things like speed, power output, or rate of fatigue?

-----

This is how, for me, on my bike:


The right leg pushes;
-the right leg can simultaneously push to the right, offsetting its left-steering input;
-the left leg can nudge the pedal to the right, offsetting the rights' left-steering input;
-the arms can compensate;
-the shoulders can compensate;
-body-english can counter-steer/compensate for the right legs' steering input;
-all of the above, in varying degrees, at various power inputs.

Have you watched a D.F. rider sprint to the finishing line?
While watching the sprint, have you noted how the power is made?
Have you seen the bike weaving under the sprinter, compensating for the power impulses, the impulses that are also steering the bike?
Have you seen how the sprinter is off of the saddle, leaning forwards, riding
on hands and feet -or, on the front-end?
Why do sprinters sprint the way they do?
Can this power be maintained?

I power my MBB bike in sprints the same way.
I cannot maintain that level of power output for very long.
It -the bike- acts very much like a D.F. in a sprint.

Can I maintain power at cruising speeds without power loss?
Yes.
I'm acclimated to my bike.


-----

I hope this helps,
-Steve

 

[marshall2389]

I pull by default but like to

I pull by default but like to push with both arms every once in a while for two reasons. It uses different muscles letting others rest and it makes me aware of how much power I am losing by not pedaling circles. When I get lazy or inattentive the leg that is not in the powerstroke fights the other leg. Pushing on the handlebars uses a lot of hip flexor and hamstring but my speed doesn't decline. I often spin faster. This just shows me I need to spin through my stroke rather than push push push.

 

[Ivan]

Thanks all for insights so

Thanks all for insights so far, they are helpful. Please keep them coming!!

 

[John Tolhurst]

If you are more upright you

If you are more upright you can push pull, but as you recline more its more pulling more heavily on alternate sides. For learning, open palms to let the messages some through.

 

[billyk]

open palms! open palms!

Another hearty endorsement of open palms. This will teach you all kinds of things about how the bike works.

Especially, it will teach you that "pedal-steer" is much less of a deal that it might appear. Unless you're climbing a steep grade or accelerating hard, pedal steer is a nothing-burger. It hardly takes any palm-pressure to compensate for it in maintaining a steady moderate speed on the flat.

Once you've got the open palms down, learn to ride no-hands. In a safe place, keeping a steady cadence, just gently lift those palms off the bars. Et voila! Keep the steady cadence and realize that pedal steer is really minor and easily compensated by any of the methods yakmurph said. Even up a shallow/moderate grade, or in a moderate acceleration, pedal steer just isn't a problem.

Then you know that this is really your bike.

BK

 

[Ivan]

Great Advice

The advice is very helpful. Now I know that my natural inclination to pull most of the time on a reclined Silvio 2.0 is not wrong from John's comment. At the same time, I should continue to practice open palms as per Steve and BK's advice. I heartily agree that pedal steer is not a huge problem once one actually tries a Cruzbike. I shall press on towards the holy grail of riding with no hands!

If only I was on my Silvio now instead of riding the train home!

 

[Kim Tolhurst]

Absolutely, the basics get you started.

The rolling and open palm techniques are for everyone for their first experience on a cruzbike. It is the best way to balance out all previous cycling mannerisms and give everyone an equality, so to speak. After some practice of roll, peddle relax the bike and you will become the learning! My experience and there are others too who had no one to talk to, got on the bike, became proficient. Let the bike teach your body from the basics, for it will. Keep your head for seeing where you want to go.

Some folk do and then find out and some folk find out and the do, both lots get the point, relax.

cheers,

Kim.

 

[Robert Holler]

I find that these bikes are

I find that these bikes are as close to riding a motorcycle as it gets, particularly in corners. When pushing it helps stabilize the front end as you can leverage off the shoulders. Pulling seems to be a bit harder - at least it was for me in the beginning. After I lightened up my grip "open palms" style and did a slight push it came very naturally.

 

[Rposar]

Open Hands? No Hands??

So all this time I have been riding my bike with closed hands is wrong? I can't even imagine trying to ride without hands. Seriously, am I approaching the Cruzbike all wrong?

 

[Robert Holler]

Not necessarily - these bikes

Not necessarily - these bikes take a bit of nuance for each individual. Closed hands is not a bad thing, but "death grip" is.

particularly when starting out - think of the bars as bananas. If you squeeze too hard you are going to smash the bananas! Now, just have most of the "pressure" in the counter-steer be in your palms, not the front of your hand.

That seems to work great for me.



Robert