Q-ring/front derailleur issue

[ratz]

Quest doesn't come with an FD.

Sorry I was thinking about the Q version 1's in the garage; those have FD hardware.

It looks like QX100 has the FD attached to the boom.

Yep the QX100 brought FD it back to save weight and cost. Still think the QX100 is a steal because of all the things you can do with it. The Homemade Quickr in our Garage proves to me home much more nimble that bike is without the Dual drive weight. I think next project is to trick that out with better hardware than the frankin-parts on it now.

Now image a QX100 with SRAM supper low cost Apex 1x11 due out in June. Put a 43 on the front and an 10-42 on the drive wheel. That would be:
1) Cheaper Drive train and higher quality than a budget 2x10 or 2x9.
2) Simple for beginners to learn to shift.
3) Just a simple to adjust fit as the Dual-drive models
4) Easy to field repair on a tour

Yep gotta go build that.

Opps tangent....

I thought the introduction of the FD mounting stalk was supposed to solve this sort of problem (versus attaching the FD directly to the boom) since the stalk does not rotate with the boom during adjustment, but stays at a constant angle to the chainstay?

Yes paper seems to bear that out; my brain keeps telling me the angle would change would be interesting to have someone throw this into CAD and verify that "A" is a constant. (why the hell don't I have a simple cad program lying around)... But at this point I'm going with you as correct; and there the staulk was probably bent. Mystery solved????

 

[twhbent]

Castlerobber, if you would like to try that spacer, send me a pm with your mailing info and I will mail the tapered part to you. If it works it's yours.

Castlerobber, the parts are on their way. Good luck.

 

[ReklinedRider]

More SRAM Yaw stuff, aka The Devil Is In The Details For Sure (warning--this is a wordy and boring read but this works, this is THE SECRET) :

After developing a creak in the front of the V which turned out to be the headset--the bolt that goes into the star nut had gotten a little loose--and fixing it, now creak free, yippee--when i got it all back together, naturally the Front D shifting was off. Way off. So I set out to readjust. And kept getting either chain rub in small ring/big cog, or if I eliminated that, it wouldn't shift to the big ring. Several complete re-do's later, using several 'methods' including resetting to the factory settings, yada yada yada, still the same problems. I was thinking that getting it to work right when building up the V to start with had been pure, irreproducible luck. SRAM 1x was starting to look very attractive.

So after a nice ride this evening in which I just stayed out of the small ring, it was out to the garage after supper to try yet again. I reverted to the Art's Cyclery video, keeping in mind all the 'pearls' from other videos, websites, and of course this forum. Still no good. Finally I tried one last thing, differently than I had done thus far, and bazingo! Perfect shifting, total cross-chaining both ways with no rub, etc. Happy, happy, happy. Found the secret.

After setting derailleur height, shifting the chain to the big ring using the inner limit screw, lining up the marks on the D with the big ring, setting the outer limit screw, then it was time to reattach the cable to the D with the shifter shifted to the big ring position. As per all the written and video instructions, I had always just pulled the cable as tight as I could by hand, or sometimes with pliers, before anchoring it down. This always left the cable too slack to shift back up to the big ring after downshifting to the small. The remedy in all instructions was to go back to the small ring and re-tighten the cable there. This move always led to the rubbing in small-big mentioned above, or if the inner limit screw was backed off enough to eliminate that rub, it led to being unable to shift to the big ring.

So, in a move of pure luck, instead of hand or plier tightening the cable, I used the Park Tool 'Fourth Hand Cable Puller' to pull the cable pretty darn tight (but not tight enough to make the derailleur start to move/shift) at the point when the chain was still on the big ring, w the shifter in the high gear position, and then anchored it down. Then shifted down to the small ring, set the inner limit screw to eliminate rubbing, and when I tried to shift to the big ring.....it shifted perfectly! And did it from every cog, and shifted back to the small ring, all the way to small-big, with no rubbing. And back again. And again. Better than ever. Just like Daniel's bike from the Art's Cyclery video.

So that's the secret. Not mentioned in any set of instructions nor in any video. Now you know.

But SRAM 1x still looks pretty good. If they make an etap compatible with the bigger cogs, so one could use etap with 1x, and maybe a 48 or 50 tooth Q Ring up front......Sorry, just daydreaming now

 

[twhbent]

So, in a move of pure luck, instead of hand or plier tightening the cable, I used the Park Tool 'Fourth Hand Cable Puller' to pull the cable pretty darn tight (but not tight enough to make the derailleur start to move/shift) at the point when the chain was still on the big ring, w the shifter in the high gear position, and then anchored it down. Then shifted down to the small ring, set the inner limit screw to eliminate rubbing, and when I tried to shift to the big ring.....it shifted perfectly! And did it from every cog, and shifted back to the small ring, all the way to small-big, with no rubbing. And back again. And again. Better than ever. Just like Daniel's bike from the Art's Cyclery video.

RR, try this video from Artscyclery, it is very helpful in adjusting the yaw fd. http://www.artscyclery.com/learningcenter/sramyawfrontderailleurs.html

 

[super slim]

More SRAM Yaw stuff, aka The Devil Is In The Details For Sure (warning--this is a wordy and boring read but this works, this is THE SECRET) :


So, in a move of pure luck, instead of hand or plier tightening the cable, I used the Park Tool 'Fourth Hand Cable Puller' to pull the cable pretty darn tight (but not tight enough to make the derailleur start to move/shift) at the point when the chain was still on the big ring, w the shifter in the high gear position, and then anchored it down. Then shifted down to the small ring, set the inner limit screw to eliminate rubbing, and when I tried to shift to the big ring.....it shifted perfectly! And did it from every cog, and shifted back to the small ring, all the way to small-big, with no rubbing. And back again. And again. Better than ever. Just like Daniel's bike from the Art's Cyclery video.

So that's the secret. Not mentioned in any set of instructions nor in any video. Now you know.

Using a tri front deraileur is a good simple solution!!!!

Could an inline cable adjuster($2) be used instead of the Park tool ($56) to get the correct tension? NOT that I am a Yorkshire descendant cheapscape!

 

[ReklinedRider]

Using a tri front deraileur is a good simple solution!!!!

Could an inline cable adjuster($2) be used instead of the Park tool ($56) to get the correct tension? NOT that I am a Yorkshire descendant cheapscape!

Tried using the barrel adjustor. No dice.

Tri front....sounds even more complicated. I lean towards NO front derailleur! And I'm a Scot descendant cheapskate

 

[ReklinedRider]

RR, try this video from Artscyclery, it is very helpful in adjusting the yaw fd. http://www.artscyclery.com/learningcenter/sramyawfrontderailleurs.html

Thst's exactly the one I used. It is indeed a very good video. I just took the liberty of modifying one of Daniel's steps

 

[super slim]

Tried using the barrel adjustor. No dice.

And I'm a Scot descendant cheapskate!

I SHOULD have realized that!!!

 

[ratz]

Tried using the barrel adjustor. No dice.

The problem with barrel adjustors is that they are for micro adjustment; and most people simply can't set the cable tight enough, with just two hands, and the barrel adjust wind up cranked all the way out. At that extension the barrel connector introduces compression into the cable line and make the brake mussy. Pliers work but they tend to ruin the cable and you only then get about 4 times you can adjust it before you ruin it, if you are a rookie.

The park tool is nice but it's really expensive the one from Pedros is half the price:

http://www.amazon.com/Pedros-138900-Bicycle-Cable-Puller/dp/B000IZGF6A/

Once you have one of those the trick becomes too parts; (1) not over tightening the cable (2) leaving enough able after the install to use it again in the future.

 

[ReklinedRider]

Pliers work but they tend to ruin the cable and you only then get about 4 times you can adjust it.

Yeah that front derailleur cable on my bike is looking pretty gnarly.

The park tool is nice but it's really expensive the one from Pedros is half the price:

My Park Tool predates my awareness of good old Pedro's

Once you have one of those the trick becomes too parts; (1) not over tightening the cable (2) leaving enough able after the install to use it again in the future.

Amen to that!

 

[ratz]

Amen to that!

Oh good, I was worried I was the only one to screw that up.

 

[ReklinedRider]

Oh good, I was worried I was the only one to screw that up.

Never fear. If it can be screwed up, i've probably done it. At **least** once!

 

[ReklinedRider]

Maybe I'm imagining things but I seem to recall there having been some sort of difficulty with front derailleur mounting on Vendetta's or Silvio's if using a 110 BCD crankset. And that SCabinetGuy made some kind of mount to go on the derailleur mounting stalk to take care of that problem. Or was that just on older models? Anyone remember anything about that? I tried a forum search without being able to find anything.

I'm asking because I'm considering going to a compact crankset to be able to get the same (or a little better) low end gear inch ratio I have now (39/32) with the current cog size limitations of etap. 34/28 would be almost exactly the same, actually just a hair better. But that would be a big expense and a lot of trouble only to find that I can't get the derailleur to fit the new chainrings.

Aren't many if not most V owners using compact cranksets without difficulty?

Signed,
Memory impaired and paranoid

 

[castlerobber]

Maybe I'm imagining things but I seem to recall there having been some sort of difficulty with front derailleur mounting on Vendetta's or Silvio's if using a 110 BCD crankset. And that SCabinetGuy made some kind of mount to go on the derailleur mounting stalk to take care of that problem. Or was that just on older models?

It was a problem on the older models, that I believe has been fixed on the newer ones. Trying to go below a 50T big ring didn't work too well. I ran into that when setting up the Silvio 1.5, because the FD couldn't be positioned low enough for the 46T Q-ring I thought I wanted to use. The 50T Q-ring works fine, though.

First Silvio ride was a wash...literally

 

[ratz]

Steve's bracket could lower the bracket but it's main use is to give the super powerful Di2 front derailleur something to push against.

 

[ReklinedRider]

Thanks Betsy and ratz. You have put my mind at ease; I can start plotting and planning for next season.

 

[ReklinedRider]

Addendum to the above Yaw post: during a nice 30 mile ride yesterday, I realized that I had NEVER had the Yaw dialed in right until modifying that one step that I now call The Secret. It was always sheer luck that it worked as well as it did. Now, upshifts are so smooth, easy, and quick I find myself looking to see if it shifted at all. Yep, it did. Every time.

I have gone from being a bit frustrated with the Yaw to thinking it is the new 7th wonder.

 

[castlerobber]

So, in a move of pure luck, instead of hand or plier tightening the cable, I used the Park Tool 'Fourth Hand Cable Puller' to pull the cable pretty darn tight

Guess I need to get one of those (or the Pedro's equivalent). Still not happy with the shifting on the Silvio. After a tune-up in March, it no longer throws the chain off the big ring. But there's chain rub on the inner FD plate with the four largest cogs, where it rubbed only on the three largest before the tune-up. I tried tweaking the inner limit screw 1/4 turn at a time, but when a total of 2 full turns hadn't helped, I gave up and put the screw back where it was.

Been watching the Art's Cyclery video and re-reading this thread, in preparation for resetting the FD to factory settings and giving it a go sometime this week.

 

[ReklinedRider]

Sounds familiar! I would order the Pedro's equivalent asap and wait til you have it to try re-doing your Yaw. As good a bike mechanic as you are, you'll nail it right off using a '4th hand' type cable puller.

 

[hoyden]

there's chain rub on the inner FD plate with the four largest cogs, where it rubbed only on the three largest before the tune-up.

I had a chain rub running in the large ring and the two largest cogs. The rub was from the metal passing over the chain and connecting the left and right sides. I loosened the FD frame mounting screw and pulled the FD as far away as it could go in its slot from the large ring. That eliminated the rub on the second largest cog and lessened the rub on the largest cog.