Quest v. Sofrider v. Silvio

[James Benzoni]

I am interested in Cruz Bikes, and have reviewed the various forums. I just bought a new (and expensive) DF -- which I really like -- but it is killing my wrist and neck. I have artaritis in one wrist, and must be getting older for some reason.....

I am looking at the Quest, which i tend to really like for its transportability, vs. the Sofrider for apparent toughness.
Which is better fr hillclimbing (in stock set-up)? Lower gearing, etc.
Also, what about the Silvio compared to thw Quest and the Sofrider?
I don't caare about speed, more into going longer distance without my wrist and neck and butt hurting so much. While conditioning might help some, the artaritis in my wrist looks like it is here to stay. I can't run any more, as knees are bad, but this looks like a good way to stay in shape and enjoy the outdoors.
Any comments on diffeences or benefits o these three would be appreciated.
I noticed that Jum Terner suggested in one post to start with the Quest or Sofrider, and I'm okay with that -- but which one do others prefer. Price doesw not seem to be too much for either (compared with other bents), so I'm really looking at something that will last and can go the distance.
Thanks. Jim

 

[Hilry]

Arthritis

Hi James,

I appear to be getting inexplicably older too!

Whilst I am not qualified to reply to your query on Cruzbike selection I have for several months been using Arthrileaf cream for the assorted pains, and whilst it isn't an empirical test, it certainly seems to be helping me stave off the arthritis.

It's made from Ngali nuts from the Solomon Islands and is available on the internet. Give it a Google.

I had been suffering with finger joint pains from too much typing and have broken my wrist in the past and seemed to be pretty free of the wrist pain this season and a pain in the other hand where the little finger joins on which has cleared up entirely.
And I stick it on the knees and elbows.

...it's not up to the sitting on a saddle issue though!

Choosing between the Cruzbikes, personnaly I would quite fancy a Quest...and a Silvio.

Cheers
Hilary

 

[Charles.Plager]

Hi Jim,
I've only ever seen a

Hi Jim,

I've only ever seen a Sofrider in person (and only my bike). So take that into account.

The Sofrider is the cheapest (which was definitely relevant to me); it is also the heaviest. The standard double doesn't go nearly low enough for me, but it is very easy to put a triple crank on. In my case, I knew when I was buying the bike that this is what I was going to do. It wasn't until more experiences with hills that I decided I wanted to go even lower. I've successfully pulled trailers that attach to the rear quick release as well as to the seat post. There are some trailers that attach to the rear chain stays of the swing arm that should fit on a Sofrider that I don't believe would fit on any of the other Cruzbikes.

If money wasn't an issue and I was deciding between the Sofrider and the Quest, I'd get the 451 Quest (so-called 20" wheels that are really 22"). The Quest if 4 lbs lighter than the Sofrider. I don't see anything that suggests that the Quest would be less durable than the Sofrider.

The biggest disadvantage of the 451 compared to the 559 wheels is that it's harder to find tires for the wheels. Using my experience of the Sofrider, the 26" Quest is not geared anywhere near low enough for me. Some people have swapped out the 42T e-ring with teh 26" wheels to a smaller creation and seem happy (but then you lose the E-ring - more below). The 22" is much closer to what I'd like to see. I do like that it can be packed in a suitcase as I used to travel a lot and being able to bring it on trips would be fantastic.

I've never used a Q-ring (or E-ring), but the principle behind them is sound and a lot of people really like them and have used them successfully (Bradley Wiggins winning the Tour de France for one ).

As far as the Silvio goes, I believe the seat angle (largely fixed) is similar to that available on the Quest and Sofrider (where as the Vendetta as a much lower seat angle than all other Cruzbikes). The weight is again about 4-5 lbs lighter than the Quest. This is really a road bike, so if your riding is mostly on trails, it may not be for you. The price is significantly more than the Quest (unless you have a drive train and wheels lying around in which case it is very comparable to a Quest). It is still a suspended bike and most people who have one seem to love it. And you can put a fairly reasonable triple crank on it (Randy put on a 53/39/26 with the upper two being Q rings) to get lower gear range. It will be a faster bike than the Quest or Sofrider.

The Vendetta (even though you didn't ask) is somewhat of a different beast. Much lower seat angle, no suspension, and again 5 or so pounds lighter than a Silvio. A beautiful creation which has caused much drooling.

If price were no issue, the decision between Quest and Silvio comes down to the type of riding you want to do. Portability is very cool on the Quest. If someone is doing club rides with MAMILs*, the Silvio is probably a better choice (or even the Vendetta). I haven't ridden either of these two, so I can't comment on which is more comfortable.

Cheers,
Charles

* MAMILs - Middle Age Men In Latex

 

[randyspann]

Depends on purpose of bike

James - It depends mostly on what kind of riding you want to do. Quest: very capable commuter, internally geared hub convenience, off road capable. Softrider: most versatile in wheels, gearing, suspension, seat angle, pavement or off road. Silvio: road bike, pure and simple. Vendetta: all out no-holes-barred road bike.
Each one has a special place in the cruzbike lineup. All work just great and are engineered for the comfort I suspect you are missing. All are great fun! I personally am attracted to the sports car look and feel of the Silvio and the Vendetta.

 

[John Tolhurst]

James,
the fellas have

James,
the fellas have treated you to some well crafted answers, which I endorse.

 

[Dennis Perry]

SPOILT FOR CHOICE

Hi Jim

I've owned Version 1 of each Cruzbike you mentioned, and newer Versions get better too as user feedback filters back: a virtuous circle. John Tolhurst continues to be the engine room for innovation, but he is keenly attuned to feedback from the Cruzbike community.

My (continuing) Cruzbike story is at: http://www.cruzbiking.com.au/threetwoone (and an earlier version on the Silvio brag board).

Here's the rub. I've also taken up riding DF road bikes recently as part of a personal experiment (N=1) on exploring the differences between the styles of riding. The motivation for the experiment was to explore personal issues with recumbent hill climbing, and I'll start a thread on that later as the experiment progresses. On the flat, your legs and your heart are in the same plane. But going up a steep hill your legs will be higher than your heart - on any recumbent - not just Cruzbikes. Is this a problem - no idea? And this is in addition to the usual consideration of recumbents exercising different muscles - the need to develop "bent" legs - if that's really an issue.

The two common factors I've found in climbing hills on a DF and Cruzbike are:

1. It's hard work on both, and
2. A low gear and a high cadence is the best strategy on both - stay seated, and relax, as much as possible.

In DF Cyclocross and some mountain biking it's common to see riders leap off their bicycles and run / walk some of the time. Maybe I'll come to terms with walking up really steep hills, where it's not an option to get out of the saddle - as it is on a DF - to just increase the cadence before you sit down again and spin. Interestingly, Bradley Wiggins found he had to lower his cadence in the BORAF, slightly, to maximise his power output. Would that I had that problem.

I also wanted to write a sequel - "My Journey to the Vendetta" - but that's not going to happen for a while and I'm working through issues with riding a Vendetta with Kim Tolhurst. In a nutshell, starting off and low speed manoeuvring is difficult for me on the Vendetta, because of the extreme recline. Once riding, it is almost effortless, and an astonishing experience, so I will persist.

Like most of the population, I never flew on the Concorde, but I like to think there is a similarity with the Concorde drooping its nose for takeoff and landing, and then retracting it for supersonic flight, see: http://www.concordesst.com/nose.html

But I digress.

At the moment Jim, my Cruzbike ride is my Quest 451 V2. My Silvio V1 is in bits as I ponder converting it to a Silvio V1.5, or selling the frame (offers?) and saving up for a Silvio 1.5 frame. The Sofrider was sold a long time ago.

I think Charles is on the money suggesting the Quest 451 V2 for portability and its technological (Q-ring, SRAM Dual Drive Hub) aspects. And Randy is right to ask what sort of riding you plan to do. BTW, I had no trouble getting Schwalbe Durano 28-451 tyres for my Quest.

I think the Quest 451 V2 is the easiest Cruzbike to start the Cruzbike experience with. I recently did a relaxing 42 km ride with Kim Tolhurst that had a several rolling "inclines" of 3-4 per cent and a couple of steeper 6-8 % "pinches". Just for reference, a 1.3 km climb at an average grade of 6.4 % is rated as a Category 4 climb (the easiest) for road bike races. I'll let you know how I progress through the Categories - if I get that serious.

One emphatic recommendation is that you watch Kim's riding instructions, see: http://www.cruzbiking.com.au/firstride I'm fortunate to be on the same continent as John, and close enough to Kim to go riding together. However, I bought my Sofrider, sight unseen, but I only really got it set up when I met Kim. We're trying to make that experience available in the videos.

WRT to your DF riding, I can thoroughly recommend "Just Ride", by Grant Petersen, see: http://www.amazon.com/Just-Ride-Radically-Practical-Riding/dp/0761155589 - and Cruzbikers could enjoy it too. And Petersen explains (if you haven't guessed already) what BORAF means, and why its influence is not always good.

On the DFs, I still find I'm getting sore wrists to some extent, but back, neck and saddle "pain" have been largely eliminated on 80km rides by getting fitted by Andy Choy at BikePro. He's not into the snake oil that seems to be peddled about, and as you get fitter he'll make minor adjustments. His treatment, if you live in Australia, and can visit him, is described at: http://www.bikepro.com.au/bikepro-fit- but if you are overseas, then there's a DIY page at: http://www.bikepro.com.au/diy-bike-fitting

Andy helped fit me to my Silvio, put me on a PowerTap and showed me how pedaling technique could increase my power output. It did. Andy is a fan of Cruzbikes and the design philosophy of the Silvio in particular.

I took my first DF, a CELL Victor (carbon) to Andy to be fitted, and then bought a Lynskey Sportive (titanium) from him. Both weighed in at around 8kg. I'm sure if it could be done at a reasonable price, John would trim weight off the Silvio, with maybe a carbon or titanium version, but this is a big ask for a small market. And while the Quest and Silvio are both heavier, they are not heavy bikes. It's easier to trim a few kilos off your own frame than to shave grams off a bike.

The Quest wasn't available when I started my Cruzbike journey, and neither was the Sofrider V2. The Silvio V1 was a fantasic experience. My first long ride on a Silvio, with virtually no preparation, was 70km. No pain anywhere when I finished either.

So, in many ways I envy you and the choices and experiences ahead.Cruzbikes (or recumbents in general) may not be for you, but while my experience of RWD recumbents and trikes is limited, the Cruzbike FWD design philosophy just makes sense.

At the moment, I'm in a Greg LeMond headspace - "It never gets easier, you just go faster." - and I've made a detour to DF road bikes, while I ponder the Vendetta. It's interesting to read other Vendetta posts where Paul (fthills) said he had to forgot all his previous riding experience and start from scratch with the Vendetta. That's what puzzled me. I was an experienced Sofrider, Quest and Silvio rider, and yet the Vendetta threw me (not literally).

Knowing what I know now, and had it been available, I think I would have chosen the Quest 451 to start the journey.

Good luck and welcome.

 

[John Tolhurst]

Close to making this one a

Close to making this one a sticky. Outside balanced reviews are not easy to acquire.