QX100 early review

[Gunnstein]

I've got only 70 km on the bike, anyway these are my impressions so far. In short, I'm very happy with it, apart from issues I mostly knew about before buying, and minor problems I'll be able to fix myself. Thumbs up!

BENEFITS

• Packs in a suitcase!
• Light weight: 16.5 kg on my luggage weight, with touring rack and ventisit.
• Less chain, no extra idlers.
• Well adjustable seat. The ventisit option is also great.
• Very low BB, I hope this will help my numb feet.
• The touring rack seems solid and well designed.
• Fewer specialised components than some other bents.
• Well built, mature, good looking. Finally some non-orange options.
• Decent price.
• Riding is easy to learn!

DOWNSIDES

• No front suspension. I can only hope they'll bring back the suspension fork at some point, it's needed. Will use fatter tyres for now.
• Unstable at speed (40 km/h so far) where other bents are fine at 80 km/h. Should improve with practice. Update: Yes, have done 70 km/h now, no problem.
  
• No lawyer lips. Some may like this, but I'd prefer the extra security since the disk braking force is aimed at ejecting the front wheel downwards. Good thing is that the dropouts are aimed forwards a bit, not straight down.
• Can spin out on very steep paved hils (25%) or less on gravel/wet.
• Bottles are hard to reach behind the seat, but should be possible with practice. Update: Yes, no problem.
  
• Not geared for hill climbing - 2 meters advancement in first gear, and that with only 160 mm cranks. (No issue for me since I'm switching to 406/20" wheels, reducing the gearing. And changing chain rings is easy, anyway.)

QUALITY ISSUES

• Unnecessary use of a (plastic) front derailer cable pulley, since top pull 2x derailers are available (e.g. Shimano FD-CX70). Update: That one isn't compatible with grip shifts, so it's an understandable decision.
  
• Rear brake cable housing is too short to park the bike with the front end leaning on the seat as recommended.
• Chain is too short for the large/large combo. This should be avoided anyway, but if I forget I risk damaging the rear derailer. (I'm used to a RWD bent where cross chaining is no problem.)
  
• The kickstand hits the rear brake disk when disengaged, possibly also when riding, and is so close to the swingarm that it's hard to pull out with my foot. Fixed by adding a rubber bumper.
• The stem has a lip that makes it a bit hard to lower it below the top of the riser.
• The behind-the-seat water bottle cages (Cruzbike labelled) have too long bolts, which scrape against the bottles making them harder to use. Fixed by adding washers.
• The front wheel got very loose spokes after only 200 km.

UPDATE: I have still only ridden 417 km on it due to the wheel problem, but some of the other issues are resolved already. Added updates in the text above.

 

[Mack Murray]

I bought a QX100 mail order from Cycles Bentoline in Grenoble in June and was surprised to discover upon assembling the bike and taking it around the block a few times that between both wheels about 10 spokes weren't even finger-tight. Tightened all the spokes but then ended up having to retighten the spokes all the time, so I took the wheels to a shop to get them properly trued. Even after that, I had to loose spokes every week, so I threw in the towel and bought new wheels (35 euro wheels, nothing pricey) which have solved the spoke problem and made the bike feel a lot less sloppy. Having seen several comments about loose spokes in the forums, this doesn't seem to be a rare occurrence.

 

[Gunnstein]

I bought a QX100 mail order from Cycles Bentoline in Grenoble in June and was surprised to discover upon assembling the bike and taking it around the block a few times that between both wheels about 10 spokes weren't even finger-tight. Tightened all the spokes but then ended up having to retighten the spokes all the time, so I took the wheels to a shop to get them properly trued. Even after that, I had to loose spokes every week, so I threw in the towel and bought new wheels (35 euro wheels, nothing pricey) which have solved the spoke problem and made the bike feel a lot less sloppy. Having seen several comments about loose spokes in the forums, this doesn't seem to be a rare occurrence.

Right, so it's not just me. This is perhaps the most important quality control issue. The wheels on a new bike should stay strong and true for years. I haven't complained much since I'll replace the wheels for smaller ones anyway.

 

[ratz]

Having seen several comments about loose spokes in the forums, this doesn't seem to be a rare occurrence.

Hi Mack,

First Welcome to the Forums, Safe to assume you are roaming France on your QX100?

Sorry to hear you had a problem with the spokes; my guess is that it mostly likely happened in shipping; and I am glad you had the skill to spot it and got it corrected even if it took new wheels (Bummer).

As you will find we like to keep most things here factual and well supported. From reports we on the forums to date it would appear that loose spokes is actually a rare occurrence. If it is happening often people are not reporting it here. Having read every post made to the forums in the last 3_ years, I can recall only you and Gunstein reporting it. If you use google "loose spokes site:cruzbike.com" you find about three posts 2012-2008 and the top hit refers to extended wear after time. Searching the site directly will yield just your's and Gunnstein posts in this thread. Since your are both "loosely" in the European block that may be an indicator for us related to shipping.

What you are probably recalling is that Myself, @MrSteve , and a few other veterans, frequently tell people who report report random squeaks and ticks that they can not locate them to check the spokes. We find that many casual bikers do not understand the weird sounds that spokes can make, but only when under power and load. If you check those posts it is most often a Silvio using their own wheel, the A67's being pretty bomb proof. Sometimes it is a spoke and sometimes it is a loose boom bolt or headset stack on the performance bikes.

That all said it's certainly not a bad idea to check the spokes when receiving a QX100, the box and packaging are tight and spokes are always going to be at risk. Any time I sell a bike used, I fret over spoke damage in transport.

To-date there not anything here in the forums to indicate it is a wide spread problem. But since your raise the point; if anyone else has had a problem with loose spokes on a brand new Qx100 series please make a note on this thread; without data, nothing can get corrected. Robert and Jacob are sticklers for quality control and data is useful. If we found here as a group that there is a substantiated trend/problem related to spokes history tells us they will take it seriously and get it addressed at the supplier level.

Disclaimer: I only see what happens here, if support@cruzbike.com is getting flooded with reports I am sure Robert can set me straight and probably give quality guidance about what to do about it. He also might be interested in the old wheels if you still have them from a quality control inspectin standpoint. That's a complete guess on my part, just thinking out loud.

 

[Mack Murray]

Hi Ratz,
Thanks for welcoming me to the forums. I use the QX100 for commuting to my office in Strasbourg, and for city riding I really like it since you can stand at intersections and then get a quick start from the standing position and settle into the seat while moving. I had tried another recumbent before buying the QX100, a Street Machine, and getting going at a busy intersection with loads of bikes around you jockeying for position was hell. That I can fit a baby seat to the QX100 as well is the icing on the cake. In other words I really like the QX100, which probably magnifies my disappointment with that first set of wheels!

 

[MrSteve]

My new Sofrider was on the road less than a year when I finally figured out why I was going so slow.
The spokes in the front wheel were so loose -yet strangely quiet- I could watch the wheel flex and flop in time with the pedals!

In the old days, I used to true and tune every moped wheel that came through our motorcycle shop.
Why didn't I check my own wheels?!
Typical mechanic problems, I suppose.

Anyway, I disassembled the front wheel, checked and cleaned all the parts, reassembled it and it's been
pretty true so far.

The front wheel has a lot to do for us:
-steer;
-brake;
-transmit pedal power and
-hold up its share of the weight.

So now I check it every time the brakes get cleaned and adjusted.

It's easy to blame quality control, and sometimes people let things slide for sure.
But I bet that the spokes break in and loosen up things in their first riding season.
Especially the smaller wheels.

My Cruzbike 700c A67 wheels are stable, fast and true; I have never needed to tune or true them.

 

[ratz]

I use the QX100 for commuting to my office in Strasbourg,

All you commuters with the built in reason to ride, make me jealous; I suppose I could ride around the block and pretend to commute; but nothing so pretty as Strasbourg (been their once every so briefly in '88). It's fun that we are picking up more non U.S. and non Australia riders.

What wheels did you end up going with; Every one here likes photos of cost effective upgrades. While i have no complaint of the built in stuff, wheels are always near the top of my list of upgrades for speed and comfort. We use A23's and DTswiss bomb proof hubs on our retrofitted Quests; so I'm curious what you found for 35 euro that works well. I've upgraded you to be able to post photos without the usual spamfilter waiting period.

 

[Mack Murray]

Hi Ratz, I made a small mistake with the price of the wheels; I quoted the price for the V-brake version (https://www.decathlon.fr/roue-vtt-26-disc-v-brake-av-id_8335919.html ) and not the disc-brake version which is 15 euros more (https://www.decathlon.fr/roue-vtt-26-disc-noir-avant-id_8336019.html ).
Here's a picture of the bike with the baby seat on it http://imgur.com/a/T1tet ; the front tire is new following an unfortunate encounter with some road debris.

 

[Emeljay]

MrSteve said:
"It's easy to blame quality control....
......But I bet that the spokes break in and loosen up things in their first riding season."

I can blame myself for recent spoke mischief. Wanted to fix a minor wobble in the drive wheel, and bought a spoke tension meter. Read the manual and it all made sense.

Had two tight spokes that pulled the rim their way, loosened them up just a little . Used the spoke meter checking the remaining spokes, and afterwards tweaked other spokes. Then everything went limp!! Too much tweaking made all the spokes loose! Lucky I have wheels in reserve!

Lesson learned, leave well enough alone. Now I will try to fix my loose spoked wheel, it will be a learner wheel!

 

[billyk]

Welcome to the group and thanks for the review. I agree on many points.

Contra Ratz, I did mention loose (new Q2) spokes on this forum back in 2013. Can't find it now (just on a phone) but there was a bit of discussion.

Ratz is absolutely right that spoke ticking can seem to come from any number of places on the bike and be hard to pinpoint. The noise was driving me nuts and several LBSs failed to find anything. I believe it was a suggestion on this forum that pointed out this possibility, which led to its immediate resolution. That was a valuable lesson for me.

BK

 

[ratz]

Contra Ratz, I did mention loose (new Q2) spokes on this forum back in 2013. Can't find it now (just on a phone) but there was a bit of discussion.

I was actually referencing you wasn't this the thread about two spokes wearing down? And another user with a quest II with 451's. I assumed yours was a high mileage problem.
http://cruzbike.com/forum/threads/really-annoying-click-ping-noise-finally-fixed.5046/#post-105046

 

[billyk]

I was actually referencing you wasn't this the thread about two spokes wearing down? And another user with a quest II with 451's. I assumed yours was a high mileage problem.
http://cruzbike.com/forum/threads/really-annoying-click-ping-noise-finally-fixed.5046/#post-105046

Oh, you are good, Ratz. Color me impressed.

But I would call this a new-bike problem. Maybe a few hundred miles while I learned to ride, did my various tweaks (things like fenders and rack/bag mods that also introduced noise), before getting things quiet enough to notice the spokes.

 

[DavidJL]

I have had spokes come loose on my QX. Fortunately, I didn't have to take it to my LBS. A ticking noise in the front wheel brought it to my attention.

 

[Gunnstein]

But I would call this a new-bike problem. Maybe a few hundred miles while I learned to ride, did my various tweaks (things like fenders and rack/bag mods that also introduced noise), before getting things quiet enough to notice the spokes.

True, but it may be an indication that the wheels are machine built and/or not pre-stressed, or not tensioned enough. The 26" wheels on my Azub have been silent and true for the nearly 14.000 km I have ridden it, zero tuning done. Though that bike costs quite a bit more. Anyway, I have high hopes for the QX. I'm learning wheelbuilding, and plan to ride Japan south to north when it's ready. It's a fun bike.

 

[Gunnstein]

(I have updated the original post with a few new experiences.)

 

[Tom Bastnagel]

I just had my first session with my QX100 last night. Went really well except I noticed a pinging or creaking noise occasionally. Hard to discern between it being the shock or the spokes. Upon feeling around, loose spokes... Didn't check for finger tight nipples but they all felt real mushy. Tension is lower than any of the other 3 bikes in the garage. I used to build my own wheels (30 years ago!). Does a quarter turn on each spoke sound like a potential cure? I'd true it up a bit after that.

 

[ratz]

This would keep from from tightening the ones that are already good.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/spoke-tension-gauge/id518870820?mt=8

 

[Gunnstein]

I just had my first session with my QX100 last night. Went really well except I noticed a pinging or creaking noise occasionally. Hard to discern between it being the shock or the spokes. Upon feeling around, loose spokes... Didn't check for finger tight nipples but they all felt real mushy. Tension is lower than any of the other 3 bikes in the garage. I used to build my own wheels (30 years ago!). Does a quarter turn on each spoke sound like a potential cure? I'd true it up a bit after that.

Sure, taking into account that the drive side spokes on the driven wheel should be tightened a tiny bit more than the disk side, or the dish will be wrong.

Disclaimer: I'm a total newbie. I just built my first wheel last month, using this book as my teacher:
http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php

Once I get the spokes I've ordered, I'll start building the 406 wheels for my QX. I've got big fat BMX rims, and with 32 spokes on such small wheels it should get pretty solid. The unsuspended front wheel will get a Big Apple tyre, and I wanted a wide rim to maximise the tyre suspension, and stabilise the big tyre.

I've also replaced the double crankset with a custom built big triple to fit the small wheels. The 113 mm spindle was a bit too short for that, but I had a 118 mm lying around which fit perfectly.

Given that, I have also replaced the double Microshift front derailer with a triple, also a Microshift. Like the original double it doesn't fit well with the gripshifts - they pull too much cable to be able to use the trimming "micro clicks". I have made the arm on the derailer longer so that it matches the range of the gripshifts. That has the added bonus of reducing the force needed to shift, and also ensures that the shift cable doesn't interfere with the derailer body.

 

[Gunnstein]

I have made the arm on the derailer longer so that it matches the range of the gripshifts.

Shown here. I cut off a piece of a stainless steel hinge, which happened to be exactly the length I needed given the angle that was practical to use. The new effective arm length is 36 mm, center-to-center of the bolts. The full range of the gripshift matches the full range of the triple derailer.

 

[Gunnstein]

I've replaced the double crankset with a custom built big triple to fit the small wheels.

The triple is an "Origin8", 130/74 BCD, 165 mm long. It wasn't offered in 160, and 155 might be too short given that I normally use 170 and 175 and am happy with that. And it's cheap...

...which is good, because the TA Specialities rings cost quite a bit. 56-42-32 teeth which gives perfect even jumps and 541% range with the standard 11-34 cassette. Given the 406 wheel with 55 mm Big Apple, the gearing range will be 1.47 - 7.96 gain ratio, 1.53 - 8.25 meters development, and 19" - 103" in medieval units The polished aluminium fits the crankset nicely. I won't set speed records on this, but it should be fine for loaded touring.