Rack solution for the Silvio 2.1

[adifferentbent]

Well where to start...

I love the bike, and love riding it, including to work. I commute daily 10 mile to work, and though I know it is probably sacrilege to mar the good looks of this sleek machine with a rack, I need to carry more than my Double Century bags could hold.

I had read some to the forum postings and was looking at the Thule rack but judging from the angle of where it mount to the seat stays, I did not think it would clear the back of the bike.

I found the M-Wave Alloy One-4-All Bicycle Carrier Rack

It looked like it could work so I ordered it, $35 not too bad a price. Unfortunately the lower arms were too short.

The engineer in me said, well it is close, lets see what we can do.
3/8 aluminum rod cut to 14", 5/8 aluminum tubing cut 3", pressed 1/2" and drilled for the bolt.

It works well, though there is a little tail waging the dog going on, but it is not too bad.

I will add a picture of the full setup later today

 

[ak-tux]

It looks like it interferes

It looks like it interferes with the suspension. As the suspension flexes, something l will eventually give.

It should either be exclusively linked to the rear seat stay or the main frame i.e (seat back, and/or neck rest) but not both.

 

[Charles.Plager]

AK is right. You want to be

AK is right. You want to be careful not to short-circuit the rear suspension. I think you'll be a lot happier if you can mount the front of the rack to the seat stays instead of the seat.

 

[Tuloose]

I really appreciate anyone

I really appreciate anyone trying to come up with a solution to mounting a rack on the new Silvio.
I wish I could mount a rack on my 2.0 and in fact I was led to believe that this was possible when I ordered my 2.0 and the accessories list had a rack as an option.
Maria informed me that the rack, which had worked on the older versions of the Silvio, would not work on the 2.0 but that Cruzbike was working on a solution.
The fact that they have not come up with a solution yet doesn't give me much hope that there will be a rack in the 2.0's future.

Just look at the inherent design challenges of trying to mount a rack on a bike with this extreme of a seat angle presents.
In order to get the rack to not interfere with the seat the rack has to be placed beyond the rear axle.
Any load on the rack will have a negative effect on the front wheel traction which is already a problem with the FWD design.
This far rear ward location would also seem to make the rack less rigid due to the long strut lengths.
I just don't see how a rack can be safely mounted on the 2.0.

 

[Charles.Plager]

For what it's worth, it looks

For what it's worth, it looks like the Thule Pack-n-pedal is somewhat adjustable:

Given Amazon's return policy, if it were me I'd order one and try it out (hint hint).

 

[MrSteve]

Racking Your Brains

-over racks?

Ak-tux makes a valid point, a point I'd take to heart!

Tuloose also has some valid insights.

What's a Silvio 2.0 commuter to do?

How about panniers?
Side-mounted bags, hanging from either side of the seat would work.
Yes, the panniers would be less aero, but with the weight carried
both lower and closer to the C.G., handling would not suffer.

Adifferentbent's solution will work, until it breaks.
I have two suggestions:

-The modified rack needs an anti-sway brace/gusset, to
minimise that tail-wagging and,

-the points where the rack is mounted to the bicycle ought to
include some vibration absorbing rubber washers... if they don't already!

Good luck,

-Steve

 

[adifferentbent]

Good points all

Thanks for the input.

Other than the momentum issues already mentioned I have not seen, or heard too much in the way of movement from the rack with the movement of the rear suspension. Also keep in mind the travel of the rear suspension is fairly small. I have noticed, especially in rain that there is more tendency for the front wheel to slip.

cplager - I will look at the possibility of moving the upper mounts to the seat stays, though I would think it would accentuate the side to side action.

Lets keep working on this, it is a worthwhile goal

- Dan

 

[super slim]

Could an Arkel Randonneur

Could an Arkel Randonneur like I fitted to my Silvio V1.0 be used on the V2.1, using the same clamps on the bottom connection that normally goes onto the seat post, and use the existing top bracket for the seat rail to clip in behind the headrest tubes.

SS

 

[Jerrye]

Thought

Would adifferentbent's solution work if rubber washers and nylon lock nuts were used on the lower arms, upper arms, and rack brace? Tighten the lock nuts enough to slightly compress the rubber washers, which should eliminate rattling, while allowing enough pivot to prevent suspension issues? Or would this exacerbate the "tail wagging"?

 

[Eric Winn]

Here is a video review of

Here is a video review of that Thule Pack-n-Pedal from the first time Charles introduced us to it.

It is actually much more adjustable than the one photo suggests as they have something like 3 different leg sizes plus some adjustability to accommodate several different frame geometries.

http://cruzbike.com/axiom-journey-2429-rack-silvio-2.0#comment-24249

-Eric

 

[adifferentbent]

Arkel Randonneur

super slim - The Arkel Randonneur could work, though you would have to come up with a bracket to attach to the furthest aft rear suspension mount to provide the bottom connection for the post mount , as the 2.1 no longer has the round elastomer configuration of the earlier model. You would also have to use the Brooks Adapter (possibly modified) for the connection to the headrest tubing.

- Dan

 

[ratz]

Instead of a rack I have been

Instead of a rack I have been thinking something from Radical would be good. The Solo Racer seems like a good fit for Silvio. I think we could mount then considerably lower on the seat of Silvio; perhaps even two sets one low and one high since we have no drive train to worry about. Here the best view of how they mount that I could find. The are 10 Liters


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JG92UN_N5gw


Or add the Bana racers for 25 Liters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature-player_embedded&v=uyvwJpu3rYM

 

[timt]

another pannier option

Continuing the thread drift....

Looking through the Radical options, I like the racer pannier [narrow]. Apparently banana racer and racer [narrow] use the same bags, but have different mounting straps. Racer [narrow] is set up for narrow seats. The banana is flexible and can be used with either narrow or wide seats. The banana is also about $70 more than the regular racer.

Racer Pannier [narrow]
http://www.calhouncycle.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=281&idcategory=14

Click the "see a detailed shopcast..." link on the above web page to se a comparison of the various models.

I like the look of the solo racer too. That would hold a water bladder plus emergency supplies nicely.
Before I start buying other bags, I'll see if I can make my OFA bag work.

I have of time to think about these things. My order is finally in the system, but that's as far as the process has gone.
And Mr. Winn eloquently described local riding conditions as "snow-bound and freaking cold"

 

[super slim]

Tim
      The radical design

Tim
The radical design side bags look good, and light, ie 1/2 the weight of equal volume capacity Ortlieb classic panniers that I use!

How waterproof are they, as an option is a bag liner.

See the attached pdf of the 50L side bags on the Silvio V2.1.

I think a rear rack or u shaped tubing might be needed to stop the top of the bags rubbing on the wheel

Super Slim

 

[timt]

how waterproof are the radical bags?

I wish I could tell you, but I haven't no experience with the bags.
All I know is what I've read on the Calhoun and Radical Designs web pages.

I'm considering the bags for commuting. I expect I'd line them on wet or questionable days. Business casual does not extend to the drowned rat look.

My silvio frame is somewhere over the Pacific or still in Taiwan. The wheels, etc. are between North Carolina and Michigan. I'll have the bike on the road in the second half of March. Panniers won't be needed for a while after that.

 

[adifferentbent]

The Rack

Well, just boxed up the rack to go back to Amazon. On the ride home today entirely too much wagging going on with the wind and all. The load is just too far back of the wheel and the fulcrum effect was too disconcerting.

Given what I have experienced, I would say the Radical bags would probably work best, i just can't justify the expense.

As far as the liners, you could also go with small dry bag stuff sacks like the ones from REI

 

[Shahmatt]

I use this bag on my upright


I use this bag on my upright bike:

http://www.roswheel.com/en/prshow.asp?id=266

The bag is 6 liters in capacity but the rack that holds it may be of more interest.

For my conversion I am trying to find a pannier bag or vertical rack that mounts to only the left side of the bike under the seat pan. So far no luck though.

 

[adifferentbent]

never Quit

I was looking at the Radical Bags, and thought about Super Slim's comment about the Ortlieb Dry bags. I am using the same Otlieb bags I got about 15 years ago...

If you already have dry bags this might be a workable solution

1 strap long enough to hold both bags, or you could do 2 straps one for the top and one for the bottom. I will take some more pictures during the day to see how it works.

- Dan

 

[super slim]

Dear Dan,
   I have used my 4

Dear Dan,
I have used my 4 Ortlieb bags for 6 years since starting long tours of 1,600 km to 3,500 km, and they are still as water tight and rigid, and undamaged but scratched, even after a few prangs, as the day I bought them.

The 55 L Radical Design Banana bags look great and VERY light at 920 gm, compared the Ortlieb recumbent 54 L bag at 3200 gm.
Do they slide down the seat when fully loaded?

On the internet reviews that I have found, they are the preferred bags for dry trips due to the large capacity and low height, and ease of use with no heavy pannier rack. On wet trips a rack and Ortliebs were generally used with an increase of 2.0 kg.

What is the diameter of the headrest tubes, and what is the CL spacing?


Super Slim

 

[adifferentbent]

Measurements

Super Slim,

The Tube diameter is 19mm the outside measurement of the headrest assembly at the bend by the top of the seat is 75 mm

I have noticed them slide down a little, but a strap from the top or most aft strap to the headrest would eliminate that slippage.

I have ridden for 2 days with the hanging setup and it works quite well