Rack solution for the Silvio 2.1

timt

Member
another saddlebag option

In early January, BROL reviewed some saddlebags from Smoky Mtn Saddlebags.
http://smokymtnsaddlebags.com

Their bags appear to be made for a wider seat, but could probably be made to fit a narrow seat with a little sewing.
They look a bit small for my commuting plans, but good for day rides.
 

super slim

Zen MBB Master
Dan, 
      Thanks for those


Dan,
Thanks for those dimensions.
I will see how I can attach the Arkel rack.

Timt, those are well priced bags!

Super Slim
 

Ivan

Guru
Thule Pack n Pedal Tour Rack

I spotted my friend with the Thule Pack n Pedal Tour Rack, and he kindly lent it to me to test the fitting on my Silvio. I thought this would be useful for the Cruzbike community. In summary, the Thule Rack would work with a minor cutting modification to make the deck smaller.

Not obvious in the the Thule product photos online, but the Thule Pack n Pedal rack is VERY adjustable. It comes with struts of three different lengths and the clamp point can slide up and down. This means the angle is infinitely adjustable so you can get the deck perfectly flat. It can certainly accommodate the angle of the Silvio 2 stays. Here you can see me holding the rack in the approximate position it would be mounted with the deck horizontal. Due to Silvio's disc brake mounts, the Thule rack would have to be positioned above them, thus higher and closer to the frame. Due to these factors, you can't mount the rack out of the box because the deck would hit the frame around where the titanium leaf bolts to the frame. Note I am NOT holding it directly over the rear wheel because I would not be able to position in horizontally to show you what it would look like.

4.jpg


In this next side picture you can see clearly that a few cm of interference is present. The difficulty with Silvio 2 is not the angle of the stays (the Thule can accommodate this) but how low and close the frame is to the rear wheel. You can see in the side picture, that it would require some modification, then the rear 2/3 of the deck would be usable. My Crud RoadRacer II fenders do not get in the way and could remain. My underseat water bottle mounts would not be able to be used. It would be either my large Topeak saddle bag OR another back on the rack if the rack were to be installed.

3.jpg


So what modifications would be required? I think trimming the plastic deck would do. Remember, I borrowed this rack just to test for curiosity and report to you folks. I have not done this myself. If I did modify the rack I would probably cut it like this:
Thule_Rack%20(1).JPG


The rear 2/3 of the deck would then be usable, and panniers could be hung from the rails. I would probably slide those rails back a few cm so there is more clearance. Note that Thule also sells rails with the side bars to prevent panniers from hitting the wheel. This looks nice, but you could probably achieve the a similar function with some strong bungee cords, and may not even need it depending on how stiff your panniers are.

Also note that the width of the clamping points are for the rear stays of bike, assuming hub widths of 130-135mm, so for our Silvio one would have to squeeze the frame a little. Not a problem, but taking it on and off would be a little fiddly. If I really needed a rack now for existing panniers and a small bag on top, I think this would work nicely - plus it can be removed and used on other bikes. However, if I were buying bags from scratch I think seat mounted bags/panniers would eliminate the need for a rack altogether if your loads were not large.

Thus, I think Cruzbike's previously discussed official Silvio rack is still needed for moderate to large loads. Something hung from the frame in place of the stock headrest would be interchangeable and a great accessory. Images above can be opened in a new window to view higher resolution. Hope this helpful!




 

Charles.Plager

Recumbent Quant
 Fantastic!
 I've been


Fantastic!

I've been waiting for somebody to actually get a hold of one these racks who has a Silvio. I very much like the picture where you show how you'd cut the top of the rack.
 

Nanda Holz

Active Member
Going to try the Terratrike rear rack

Will report back. It is small and height adjustable, but not sure about 700c clearance yet.
http://shop.terratrike.com/Aluminum-Rack-with-Elastic-Strap-p/tt800028.htm

Here is what it looks like on a ICE Sprint FS:
1525775_618109028226073_363973975_n.jpg

 

Charles.Plager

Recumbent Quant
 Hi Nanda,
 I'm looking


Hi Nanda,

I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with. Being a dealer means that you'll be able to sell a working rack, even if it needs rather customized.

cheers, Charles
 

Robert Holler

Administrator
Staff member
Good options being explored.

Good options being explored. Use caution if placing any significant weight behind the rear axle - adverse handling can result (at least that has always been my experience on RWD highracers)

Best place for pannier weight is in front of the rear axle suspended below the seat. Mid-ship. I used to run this type of setup on my SWB Burley and Corsa SS and it actually made for improved handling in the curves. Less aero - yes - but if I need to haul a laptop and work clothes in traffic, bing super aero is off the concern list for that ride...

Robert

 

MrSteve

Zen MBB Master
Ditto

My experience testing fairings, tail trunks and saddlebags
on motorcycles on the road led me to the same conclusions
that Robert reached, riding his RWD highracers.

Best place for pannier weight is mid-ship, under the seat.

We're right; all the rest of y'all are just having fun.

-Steve
 

baov

Active Member
Has anyone considered

Has anyone considered foregoing the top platform and go with just low riders ? Oldman Mountain makes a low rider that goes through the quick release, the other mounting point could use a P-clamp.

Couple this with Radical design's banana racer and you got a decent cargo for credit card touring.
 

John Tolhurst

Zen MBB Master
My experience testing

My experience testing fairings, tail trunks and saddlebags
on motorcycles on the road led me to the same conclusions
that Robert reached, riding his RWD highracers.

Best place for pannier weight is mid-ship, under the seat.

We're right; all the rest of y'all are just having fun.

-Steve__________________"Me, we."
-Muhammad Ali

Yes, on a motorbike when you can just turn the throttle a wee bit to counter the lost aero.

I really want a sufficiently solid connection so that luggage can be carried behind the rider and not disturb either the handling or the air. I know the rule of thumb is to go midship, down low, but the energy cost of bulking up under the seat is appalling.

I am working on the hypothesis that it is flex down the length of the bike that causes handling uncertainties with the load placed rearward, and not the slower lean in or turn in characteristics.
 

super slim

Zen MBB Master
I have modified a spreadsheet

I have modified a spreadsheet from "Frank Berto & Jan Heine" and added cargo loads and positions, (see attached) to see if having two 12.5L Ortlieb panniers behind the seat, using a 26" *38 tyre, OR below the seat was faster!

I was expecting that the 700c * 28 tyres would be strong enough for a 19 kg load on a rear rack, but they are not nearly strong enough as they are only rated to 75 kg, not 84 kg, and would need 141 psi, which is above the 115 psi max pressure.

The panniers behind with a 26*38 rear tyre, are 1.9 kph faster(113kg rider) than 2 panniers under the seat, and if I loose 30 kgs from the engine , I will be 1.5 kph faster than if using a 700c *28 rear wheel, with 75 watts input, which is my average power according to Strava on a 6 week ride.

I will try this option first and check how stable it is, as if camping I will need the rear rack + the rack under the seat.

I was surprised that the V 2.0 with its 27 degree seat back had only 2 kg higher rear wheel load for the 2 off 12.5L panniers, than the 45 deg V1.0.

I do not think I can loose 30 kg as that is my weight when at High School, just a few years ago!

Super Slim






 

Ivan

Guru
For a credit card tour, the

For a credit card tour, the picture I posted before with my Revelate Designs Pika saddlebag should be enough (6-12L capacity). The aero advantage, plus lack of complexity without a rack will be hugely beneficial. Light items like jackets or a drybag can still be strapped to the top or below the pack.

IMG_3803.JPG


While the pic above shows maximum extension and thus is a bit "over long" for aesthetic looks, I most often use it in the "minimum size" rolled up configuration shown below. To give you a sense of capacity, this minimum 6L config contains my size 8 shoes and one rolled up change of clothes and is still got lots of space for more.

IMG_3802.JPG


I guess it depends on what kind of touring styles or distances you want to do. I veer towards John's aero preferences. My Pika saddlebag meets my needs without the cost or fitting challenges of the more capacious Radical Design Banana Racers.


 

bladderhead

Zen MBB Master
As I have started using mine

As I have started using mine to go shopping I need to start studying this bag problem.

My Grasshopper has had Radical bananas for 10 years. I like them because they are huge. You can get one universe in each side, and they do not have any compartments or many side-pockets. I hate compartments and side-pockets. I dislike them because they just hang, and have no ties on the sides. When turning, they lean out and drag on the ground. They slip sideways. When empty, they lift up and look like spaniel's ears.
 
I use a drawstring backpack

I use a drawstring backpack resting on my chest and stomach for everyday stuff. Take the drawstrings and cross them around your neck to keep the pack from moving side to side while you ride. It's quick and easy. No rack needed.
 

tiltmaniac

Zen MBB Master
I used my Radical Design Banana bags (small) for an epic 3000 mile tour of the east coast of the US.
Worked very well on the S30. I mounted them with the two bottom straps over the seat, and the top strap between the seat and the headrest rails (basically at the frame).
 
What is the largest size of Radical Banana bags that has
safely used with the Silvio without a rack/wheel guards? The 25l (2x12.5), 55l or 70?
 

tiltmaniac

Zen MBB Master
I suspect any/all of them would work (at worst you cut some semi-rigid plastic and put that in the reinforcement pocket in lieu of or in addition to the shape-reinforcing foam), but I've only tried the 25L personally. To reiterate, however, I've only tried the 25L, and only know for sure about that size.
 
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