Rail/Trail biking on the T50

Tuloose

Guru
We took a little camping trip in early June to ride our bikes on a few rail/trails in the West.
We have been supporters of the Rails to Trails Conservancy since it's early days in 1986 and have enjoyed riding these paths in many states and British Columbia.
Our first stop was in Osburn, Idaho at the Blue Anchor RV Park where we have enjoyed previous vacations.
Osburn sits right on the 62 mile Trail of the Coeur d' Alenes, a paved trail running from Plummer in the west to Mullan near the MT border, running along the Coeur d' Alene River for much of it's length.

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On a bridge across the Coeur d' Alene River

Next we rode another old favorite, the Hiawatha Trail, a 15 mile dirt trail up in the Bitterroots following the route of the Milwaukee line that ran from Chicago to Seattle. In addition to a number of awe inspiring trestles spanning deep gorges there is a 1.7 mile long tunnel on the ID/MT border - remember to bring your lights.
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The Pearson Trailhead

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Dogs are not allowed on the well patrolled Hiawatha and there is a day use fee of $11. Notice the day use tag on the brake cable. We rode it as an out & back but many people get shuttled to the East Portal Trailhead in MT, ride the slight downhill to the Pearson Trailhead in ID and then get shuttled back.
We also took an arduous hike to an icy mountain lake and did a sight seeing drive along the St Joe River.


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Next we took the Selkirk Loop route up into British Columbia, taking the ferry across Lake Kootenay and down to the charming village of Slocan, pop. 272, where I had read of a recently completed 28 mile rail/trail.
The Slocan Rail/Trail goes through a nature preserve, crosses a raging creek and ends on a 2 mile paved section in the town of South Slocan.
We camped at the beautiful community run campground at Springer Creek Park. This was the highlight of our trip and a place we hope to visit again.


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A mural of Slocan at the entrance to Springer Creek Campground.

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A nature preserve along the Slocan rail trail.


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This was a shake down of sorts for my new T50 and it performed well on the gravel trails. Except for a bolt attaching the rack to the rear stay falling off there were no problems with the bike. I was able to take a bolt from the headset clamp to repair the rack.
Tricia rode her venerable old Bacchetta Giro. I have tried to introduce her to Cruzbikes but she has been scared off by the handling quirks. Maybe someday I can get her together with Ratz or Robert Holler for some in depth Cruzbike riding lessons.
 

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Gary123

Zen MBB Master
Great scenery. Sounds Like a nice trip. Just did the Spanish Moss trail in Beaufort SC. Nice low country paved trail.
 

telephd

Guru
Thanks for sharing those beautiful shots Tuloose! My wife and I love riding RtT routes and have done so in 6 states. We did the Hiawatha and Trail of the Coeur d' Alenes two years ago in July. They are both spectacular rides with the Hiawatha easily on top. We will return for sure! I rode our Softrider and my wife her Giro both equipped with 35mm gravel tires. Another of our favorites is the Michelsen Trail in the Black Hills of South Dakota. My folks live in Rapid City and we have ridden it multiple times. pardon the thread hijack....

Hiawatha panoramic 2.jpg Hiawatha tressel.jpg Sonia Hiawatha tressel.jpg TdC River.jpgMichelsen scene.jpg Michelsen scene2.jpg Michelsen tunnel.jpg
 
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super slim

Zen MBB Master
P1110465.JPG
We took a little camping trip in early June to ride our bikes on a few rail/trails in the West.
We have been supporters of the Rails to Trails Conservancy since it's early days in 1986 and have enjoyed riding these paths in many states and British Columbia.
Our first stop was in Osburn, Idaho at the Blue Anchor RV Park where we have enjoyed previous vacations.
Osburn sits right on the 62 mile Trail of the Coeur d' Alenes, a paved trail running from Plummer in the west to Mullan near the MT border, running along the Coeur d' Alene River for much of it's length.

34719499_10212504426829243_1258799694063075328_o.jpg

On a bridge across the Coeur d' Alene River

Next we rode another old favorite, the Hiawatha Trail, a 15 mile dirt trail up in the Bitterroots following the route of the Milwaukee line that ran from Chicago to Seattle. In addition to a number of awe inspiring trestles spanning deep gorges there is a 1.7 mile long tunnel on the ID/MT border - remember to bring your lights.


34777676_10212504581913120_2681017022518657024_n.jpg

The Pearson Trailhead

34665500_10212504582793142_166549928271675392_n.jpg



34777292_10212504583313155_6560469867835686912_n.jpg


Dogs are not allowed on the well patrolled Hiawatha and there is a day use fee of $11. Notice the day use tag on the brake cable. We rode it as an out & back but many people get shuttled to the East Portal Trailhead in MT, ride the slight downhill to the Pearson Trailhead in ID and then get shuttled back.
We also took an arduous hike to an icy mountain lake and did a sight seeing drive along the St Joe River.

Next we took the Selkirk Loop route up into British Columbia, taking the ferry across Lake Kootenay and down to the charming village of Slocan, pop. 272, where I had read of a recently completed 28 mile rail/trail.
The Slocan Rail/Trail goes through a nature preserve, crosses a raging creek and ends on a 2 mile paved section in the town of South Slocan.
We camped at the beautiful community run campground at Springer Creek Park. This was the highlight of our trip and a place we hope to visit again.

34647319_10212505031644363_7447505421914341376_n.jpg

A mural of Slocan at the entrance to Springer Creek Campground.

34859465_10212511928776787_9052750453816688640_n.jpg




34755270_10212511927896765_4909395378811437056_n.jpg



34755383_10212511928336776_6986114458447773696_n.jpg


This was a shake down of sorts for my new T50 and it performed well on the gravel trails. Except for a bolt attaching the rack to the rear stay falling off there were no problems with the bike. I was able to take a bolt from the headset clamp to repair the rack.
Tricia rode her venerable old Bacchetta Giro. I have tried to introduce her to Cruzbikes but she has been scared off by the handling quirks. Maybe someday I can get her together with Ratz or Robert Holler for some in depth Cruzbike riding lessons.

I also stayed at the Blue Anchor RV for 5 days in 2013, and it was the best and cheapest caravan park for a tent, that I had stayed in, in USA, and the owner recommended restaurants, and tourist events were spot on!
I rode the bitumen "Trail of the Coeur d'Alenes from Plummer to Wallace, out and back over three days, and it was stunning especially near sunset, and with lots of covered seat and benches!

View attachment 6993

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The bridge on the way to Plummer.

I also rode the Hiawatha Path, + the extra really rough (ATVs can use this trail) 16 km from the Lookout Pass to the Longest tunnel!
It is stunny and this photo does not give it justice!

P1110465.JPG
 
We took a little camping trip in early June to ride our bikes on a few rail/trails in the West.
We have been supporters of the Rails to Trails Conservancy since it's early days in 1986 and have enjoyed riding these paths in many states and British Columbia.

Thanks for your post. Have you been happy with the T50 on rougher rail trails, or do you wish you had gone for the Q45 or something similar? I'm planning to ride the Eerie Canal Trail in June and wondering whether a T50 would be good for that trip and rail trail riding in general. Thanks.
 

super slim

Zen MBB Master
@super slim see @BranchRider request above. Have you ridden the Erie Canal trail and can comment on its condition and suitability for T50. I can't see any reason you couldn't use a T50 for that trek.
I hope to ride the Erie Canal this year, from 12/7/20 to 19/7/20, organised by NY Parks and Trails, with 600 other riders, Van supported and full food, and at only $795, is cheap!
From my research, the gravel sections are flat and well groomed, so any tyre >28mm width, with at least 2 mm vertical clearance will be ok on wet gravel, so a stuck gravel stone will not get jammed in the rear fork!!!!,,
 

Tuloose

Guru
"Thanks for your post. Have you been happy with the T50 on rougher rail trails, or do you wish you had gone for the Q45 or something similar? I'm planning to ride the Eerie Canal Trail in June and wondering whether a T50 would be good for that trip and rail trail riding in general. Thanks."

Sorry, but I rarely look at this posting so I did not see your question until now.
Did you get to ride the Erie Trail this year or did the Covid interfere with your plans?
Yes, I think the T50 would work just fine for gravel type rail/trail surfaces.
I have 1.6" Michelin Protek Cross tires and for rough surfaces I keep them at about 50 lbs pressure.
I had a Freerider dual suspension Cruzbike and it did not offer any more comfort than my T50.
 
My June Erie Canal ride was postponed due to COVID. Planning to go September 8-13. I ended up buying a Q45 for the trip and rail trails in general. Gnerally happy with it, but it's heavy and the Planet Bike aluminum rear fender I got for it keeps breaking near the attachment point on the fork (in front), apparently due to flexing due to vibration, since that's the only firm attachment point.
 

benphyr

Guru-me-not
My June Erie Canal ride was postponed due to COVID. Planning to go September 8-13. I ended up buying a Q45 for the trip and rail trails in general. Gnerally happy with it, but it's heavy and the Planet Bike aluminum rear fender I got for it keeps breaking near the attachment point on the fork (in front), apparently due to flexing due to vibration, since that's the only firm attachment point.
Can you post pictures of your setup? I have fenders too and had similar issues but have got them sorted. Maybe I can help.
 
I've posted a picture. Q45 with Planet Bike Cascadia ALX 26" x 60 mm rear fender with an extra set of stays. First the aluminum bridge (that came with the bike) that the fender attaches to broke; I replaced it with a steel bridge. Then the fender started to crack or tear across, near the bottom; I riveted on a stainless steel patch. Then the fender just broke off at the attachment point. I removed the bottom couple inches of the fender and attached it loosely to the bridge with some rubber/neoprene to dampen the vibration. Holding for 50 miles so far.
 

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benphyr

Guru-me-not
@BranchRider
That looks like a decent solution. I actually have a Qx100 (round bridge) not a Q45 (removable flat bridge).

I wonder if the problems are related to these:
-the fenders are designed for two solid attachment points but only have one and it is located at the very end.
-I mounted mine with bolt, washer, a schraeder valve cap with a hole drilled in it as a flexible spacer, and v-brake concave/convex washers to adjust the angle of the bolt, and a nylock nut so it can be left relatively loose without fear of falling apart and be flush with the fender and leave the fender in its natural shape.

From below QX100:
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-possibly: the connection bridge is not pulling on the centre of the fastening bolts so there is a torque every time there is a change of momentum caused by acceleration, deceleration, bumps, compression or rebound of the shock. Etc

I think the key is allowing the fender to keep its natural shape without tension on the curve. And whatever is squeezing against the fender at that starting fender mount point needs to be flush otherwise the fender being bent eventually leads to failure.

When I got annoyed by this still rattling more than my liking I made wheel skirt from election sign coroplast and glued them to the fenders. Now there is support for the fender along 90% of its length. It probably would be sufficient with less skirt.

From right side:
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From left (disc) side:
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benphyr

Guru-me-not
If you are 80 kg (176 lbs) then the recommended, by Independent Science tyre pressure for a 26" *60 mm tyre is only 20 psi, but the Min. recommended by Schwalbe is 30 psi.

http://interdependentscience.blogspot.com/2013/06/bicycle-tire-pressure.html

If running the tyre at its max pressure of 60 psi, then a LOT of vibration will go into the mudguard, and to a smaller extent, the frame!
@super slim It is the fender size that is 60mm. The stock Q45 tire is 1.75" = 45mm.

So if I am following the article correctly then the calculation is 80kg rider = 176 lbs rider + 34 lbs bike = 210 lbs package / 2 wheels = 105 lbs load per wheel so column 5.5 along the top of the chart. and tire size of 45mm would be row 9.5 down the side of the chart so 40 psi. 5% greater for 26" wheels, possibly higher for front tire because of increased load when braking (and impacts) recommended pressure approximately 45 psi.

Did I do it right?

I weigh 138 lbs with 34 lbs bike = 172 lbs = 86 lbs / 26" wheel. On the chart that puts me down at 30 lbs. I don't check my inflation as often as I should so I err on the side of caution but it certainly has been down at 30 lbs several times this season. I go over significant transition impacts on my commute every day and have not had a flat yet this year so using this chart does seem reasonable. When I have occasionally pumped them up to 60 psi for "racing" on the Cruzbike TT there is a noticeably harsher ride and less controlled bouncing over the transitions on my commute.
 
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If you are 80 kg (176 lbs) then the recommended, by Independent Science tyre pressure for a 26" *60 mm tyre is only 20 psi, but the Min. recommended by Schwalbe is 30 psi.

http://interdependentscience.blogspot.com/2013/06/bicycle-tire-pressure.html

If running the tyre at its max pressure of 60 psi, then a LOT of vibration will go into the mudguard, and to a smaller extent, the frame!
Wow, that article really opened my eyes. Gee, maybe the fact that I've been riding with 80 psi in the tires is causing excessive vibration and that's what caused the failure. From what I've ready I should be around 45 psi (50 when the bike is loaded for the tour). Thanks, super slim!
 

Brad R

Well-Known Member
I think the pressures in that chart go up too fast with weight. It suggest I should be using 80 psi and I never use more than 60psi in my 32mm tubeless Conti GP5000’s.
 

benphyr

Guru-me-not
@Brad R how much do you weigh? Assumptions of 50:50 weight distribution and 30 lbs bike would put 60 psi ideal for 170lbs or 80 psi for 230 lbs. The articles are quite old so probably refer to tubed tires. Tubeless would use lower pressures, right?
 
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