RECUMBENT versus REGULAR racing bicycle

ed72

Zen MBB Master
I did this descent in my truck once the day before doing it on the V20 in a 200 miler several years back so I had an idea of what to expect. last year I did it on the DF and smashed the KOM by over 30 seconds and improved my time by 46 seconds or 11%, which is impressive when you consider I hadn't seen the road in 3 years. The road is bumpy, very blind, and only a single lane with the chance of weekend campers on the road, these all give the advantage to the DF over the V20. I'll be doing the same event this weekend and was considering mounting the Gopro just for that descent since it's the highlight on the day.

Another thing to consider when comparing my video's or descents in general is I'm always holding back just in case I have to avoid a sudden car coming up, that makes a big difference.

https://www.strava.com/segments/796143

The analysis presented shows about 11 mph average speed difference on a bent.

You did around 28 mph on the DF.

Do you think you could possibly average 39 mph over the whole descent on a bent?

Your cornering speeds were lower compared to the #2 guy but your straight away speeds were higher.

Here is the funny thing about the math. If you go 10% slower on half the course, going 10% faster on the other half does not average out timewise.

If you have a 1o mile climb and it take you one hour to get to the top, how fast do you have to go on the descent to average 20 mph for the whole up and down total. The author fails to understand the very simple point made by this illustration. The answer is the speed of light.
 

RojoRacing

Donut Powered Wise-guy
The analysis presented shows about 11 mph average speed difference on a bent.

You did around 28 mph on the DF.

Do you think you could possibly average 39 mph over the whole descent on a bent?

Your cornering speeds were lower compared to the #2 guy but your straight away speeds were higher.

Here is the funny thing about the math. If you go 10% slower on half the course, going 10% faster on the other half does not average out timewise.

If you have a 1o mile climb and it take you one hour to get to the top, how fast do you have to go on the descent to average 20 mph for the whole up and down total. The author fails to understand the very simple point made by this illustration. The answer is the speed of light.

Yup people who hate on me for riding the V20 only see me pull away 20-30 seconds on a 10 min descent and fail to see the 10 mins I loose on a 60 min climb. They also never see me pull away a full min on those same descents while on the DF because I never race it.
 

ed72

Zen MBB Master
Strava isn't the best indication of a TdF rider's capability.

For instance, the Pro record on Alpe d'Huez is around 37 minutes and I personally watched Indurain go up it in around 39 minutes back in 1991 IIRC. Seeing him power by me in what looked like a 39x15 at about 15 mph on a stretch that I struggled to maintain 9 mph the day before was an unfriggen believable sight, the sound of air rushing in and out of his lungs was almost earth shattering. Like a Thoroughbred race horse. It was like blood was dripping from his nostrils. It took me an hour, so, I sucked then as I do now.

The Strava record is 45 minutes with fewer than 1% cracking 50 minutes on this iconic climb. (Zwift times do not count, not real). IIRC....there are about a dozen TdF climbs up it under 40 minutes.

Videos can be deceiving for many reasons. Anyone who thinks those speeds aren't scary, I don't know what to say. I've been there. The road surfaces suck. The shiny is poorly applied tar. No question someone like RoJo would wring the best out of a bent but the limits are due to the roads and not the bike. Just that simple. No need to get into acceleration times and fancy 8th grade Newtonian physics, its the roads.

Maybe the biggest error in the report pertains to CdA assumptions. The report compares a Trek upright to a M5 CHR racer. Froome on an M5 CHR putting down 288 watts isn't "only" going to traveling at 45 km/hr. I am much bigger than he and I do 47 km/hr on 257 watts. He would be closer to 50 km/hr at 288 watts. The road bike guesses are also wildly off especially applying a constant CdA to the entire ride. On descents, they tuck very tight and CdA drops from around 0.300 down to 0.200 or lower. When inside of a peloton, most the riders see almost no wind resistance and in effect have zero CdA. The author is just making wild (and wrong) guesses there.

The second largest mistake is assuming 20% lower power on a bent. Maybe 10% is reasonable and supported by studies.

Third, the climbing speeds or the bent are also way too low.

Fourth, the analysis compares the two platforms as if the race were two independent time trials and that just isn't how mass start races are run.

Fifth, the assumption of 80% FTP to average over 5 hours just is not supported by power files of these racers although in theory (power duration curves), this can be achieved especially when rested but that isn't realistic power levels and energy to waste during a 20+ day tour

Sixth, his claim is a 9Kg weight for an M5 is way off. They are 1-2 Kg heavier.
 

Osiris

Zen MBB Master
You will never beat that record on the M1. Maybe the V20

More likely to be the M5 than the V20. My record on that hill aboard the V20 is an average speed of 22.6 mph compared to 23.6 mph on the M5.

Slight correction. As of this morning I have a new record of 24.9 mph set on the M5. That's good enough for 6th place, and finally beats my 2014 record set on the TT bike.
 
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