billyk
Guru
After 1 year and about 2000 miles on my Quest 2 (559 wheels) I now know enough about it that it seems useful to review my experience on this bike. Sorry that this is long, but I spend a lot of time on the bike and thinking about it! I hope this is useful feedback.
The great part of my riding is daily commuting, 5 miles each way in urban traffic, plus a lot of errands, in a rainy, pot-holey city (Seattle WA USA) (in the US we say the State of Washington is "the other WA" - compared to DC, but considering Perth I'm not sure if we are the second or third WA!).
The Quest is a stunningly beautiful piece of engineering. I suppose that once I saw the photo on the web page, I was drawn to it and could not resist trying it. As a longtime recumbent rider, I'm used to people yelling "Cool bike!", but this is even more so on the Quest. It is gorgeous. I admire it anew every morning when I wheel it out of my bike garage.
Recumbents in general are less suited to heavily urban environments in important ways:
- less close-up forward visibility (harder to see/avoid potholes and street cracks)
- less slow-speed maneuverability
- less crowd-friendly with the pointy and greasy chainring sticking out front
But, the ability to mount a fairing is a huge advantage in a rainy or cold climate. I commuted on a DF bike for 10 years before switching to recumbents, after I got tired of having to choose between wearing sweaty raingear or arriving at work soaked and cold. One way or another I was wet and needed to carry clothing. With my fairing (see links below for photos), and our drizzly rains, a simple rain jacket keeps me quite dry with no need to change clothes. It is also a lot warmer. Feet are dry, hands are dry, and the drivetrain is dry and clean. The fairing also helps avoid the crank-in-front crowd problem.
So I am committed to recumbents, even if they are not perfect for my use.
On to the Quest:
The good:
* As above, it is beautiful. Great color, interesting shape.
* The Quest is the strongest-climbing recumbent I have ever ridden (on moderate grades, see below). It just feels very strong uphill; it feels natural to put on power and accelerate uphill. I've put a lot of miles on other recumbents, which usually live up to their reputation as poor climbers, but the Quest really shines here.
* Once you learn to control it (see below!!!) it's a lot of fun to ride, and very comfortable over distance. I eat miles (or even more kilometers!) on the Quest.
* The components are well-matched to the bike. Both the SRAM internal hub and the cassette consistently shift smoothly under load. The whole drivetrain gives confidence. (I'd like to have a smaller elliptical chainring, see below).
* The disk brakes are very effective. Disk brakes were a key purchase factor for me (deciding to get the Quest instead of Sofrider), and they work very well, wet or dry. It took me a while to learn to adjust them (see an earlier post on this topic for a nice technique), but now this is a routine, 2-minute operation, and they stay adjusted for many miles.
* The seat is very comfortable. On rear-wheel-drive recumbents the seat serves a completely different function, since power is applied like a leg-press machine: between your lower back and the pedals, so their seats are built to cup the back. On the Quest, power is applied between the handlebars and the pedals, so there is no need to be cupped in, and I find this a very comfortable ride. The ability to quickly pull off the cushions is a great feature (when I need to run into a store, leaving the bike out in the rain, without coming back to a soaked seat).
* Did I mention that it is a truly beautiful bike?
* The rear shock functions well without pogo-ing. The front shock ... not as much (see below). As with disk brakes, the shocks were a key purchase factor for me, as a recumbent on a bumpy road without a good shock quickly becomes an unpleasant experience.
The bad:
* Front wheel drive is inherently unsuited to steep hills (more than 10% grade), because the drive wheel becomes unweighted when the bike tilts back. As I have written in this forum several times, it becomes very easy to spin the front wheel in this situation, at which point you are walking. Wet pavement makes this worse. I have learned to climb one block of 15% grade every day on my way home from work, and now *usually* make it (in dry weather). I routinely climb 10% grades. So it is possible to climb steep hills, but the bike design is working against you and the possibility of failure is ever-present. A bit of unseen sand or gravel and you are done. A smaller chainring and high cadence helps.
* It is tricky to find the adjustment balance between seat position, handlebar position, and top tube length. My knees clear the handlebars by a few millimeters (basically they just touch the gearshift clicker every stroke, and I had to turn the gearshift a little more forward than I would like). Ironically I improved this a bit by adding shims (about 3/4-inch) to *raise* the seat; this changes the leg geometry enough so that my knees are more forward of the handlebar. Maybe I need to try other handlebars, but haven't gotten around to it.
* The learning curve is long. With 15 years on recumbents I didn't take the learning curve warnings seriously. In fact, I was able to ride it immediately, but it took months and many hundreds of miles before I was really comfortable on it. It's more than pedal steer; the mass in front (including leg mass) makes the bike feel dramatically different than others. I have written in earlier posts about how riding no-hands finally taught me about its balance and control, but this was a long time coming. It wasn't until I could ride for miles on end without hands that I felt that I "owned" this bike and could really enjoy it. At several points in the learning curve I felt I had made the wrong choice and was ready to sell it. Even now I am not happy at high speed, and generally keep below about 25mph, certainly less than 30. (Fortunately I am old enough that I'm not trying to set any records). I still have the feeling that I could lose it at a moment's notice by high speed wobble; yes, I'm still scared of that.
* Again because of the mass in front, it's not as easy to walk the Quest or park it. You must always be aware of the front end swinging around - no casually holding it by the seat back or leaning it against your leg as you grab something out of your rear bag. I mounted a spring (see photo links) that keeps the front end from swinging, which helps.
* There is very little clearance between the front wheel and the fork crown. I changed the tires to 26x1.5 slicks for traction (I like rubber on the road, and am less concerned with speed), and then it became difficult to mount fenders. I made it work by cutting out a piece of the fender (see photo links), but the clearance is very tight, so leaves and road junk catches there. With the bike advertised as a commuter, this could be improved as fenders are a must.
* There's not a really secure way to lock the bike. As far as I can see, there is no place to lock it where someone with a set of allen wrenches (including a 10mm) could not dismantle any part of the frame in a few minutes and make off with the bike. I don't leave it outside for very long.
Suggested improvements:
* Better manual. My guess is that people who buy a Cruzbike enjoy working on their bikes and have tools. It is also true that most local bike shops don't want to work on a Quest because they can't test-ride it (even the shops that are willing to work on recumbents at all). Thus a better manual would really be useful. It should cover things like adjusting the front shock (and generally about the head tube), how to mount the Quest in a bike stand, adjusting the brakes (the info from SRAM is useless), which joints need lubrication and what kind of grease, ... Although it's a fair bit of work to write a manual, it might save a lot of time answering questions on the forum.
* More front-wheel clearance for larger tires and fenders. Also a mount point for fender struts in the back of the fork!!! (I made mine with zip-ties ... funky)
* Smaller elliptical chainring. As noted above, climbing steep hills requires a high cadence. I switched the elliptical chainring for a round 36T, not being able to find a small elliptical. I'd love to see this be an option. Even with my 36T ring, I can easily push it above 20mph on the flat, and I suspect that for many non-racers, this is enough. For anyone riding a lot of hills, a lower gear range is needed.
* Better front shock. The rear shock is great but the front one is hard to adjust and doesn't give much cushioning. I'm sure the roads in Perth are better than the lousy ones we have here, but I'd much appreciate a better front shock.
* Locking. The Quest needs a secure lock attachment that could not be easily dismantled.
Overall:
The Quest is a beautiful, original bike that is a lot of fun to ride _once you learn how_. Learning how to stay upright is just the beginning of a longer process than I expected. It's comfortable for long rides and the miles just seem to fly by. It is the best recumbent climber I've ever ridden, and I've ridden a lot of them, but for moderate grades only; above 10% grades things get dicey and it's easy to spin the front wheel. I'm very happy to be riding it every day, but I would not have been so sure of that 6 months ago. A lesson in persistence!
Billy K
Links to photos of my Quest and its mods:
From the Quest brag board forum, showing details of various mods:
https://picasaweb.google.com/108555949105733959248/QuestModsNov2012?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCLG95PPd8p7DvAE&feat=directlink
Photos showing details of an early version of the fairing mount:
https://picasaweb.google.com/108555949105733959248/QuestFairingMount?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCPzHn5Dr09y3cQ&feat=directlink
The great part of my riding is daily commuting, 5 miles each way in urban traffic, plus a lot of errands, in a rainy, pot-holey city (Seattle WA USA) (in the US we say the State of Washington is "the other WA" - compared to DC, but considering Perth I'm not sure if we are the second or third WA!).
The Quest is a stunningly beautiful piece of engineering. I suppose that once I saw the photo on the web page, I was drawn to it and could not resist trying it. As a longtime recumbent rider, I'm used to people yelling "Cool bike!", but this is even more so on the Quest. It is gorgeous. I admire it anew every morning when I wheel it out of my bike garage.
Recumbents in general are less suited to heavily urban environments in important ways:
- less close-up forward visibility (harder to see/avoid potholes and street cracks)
- less slow-speed maneuverability
- less crowd-friendly with the pointy and greasy chainring sticking out front
But, the ability to mount a fairing is a huge advantage in a rainy or cold climate. I commuted on a DF bike for 10 years before switching to recumbents, after I got tired of having to choose between wearing sweaty raingear or arriving at work soaked and cold. One way or another I was wet and needed to carry clothing. With my fairing (see links below for photos), and our drizzly rains, a simple rain jacket keeps me quite dry with no need to change clothes. It is also a lot warmer. Feet are dry, hands are dry, and the drivetrain is dry and clean. The fairing also helps avoid the crank-in-front crowd problem.
So I am committed to recumbents, even if they are not perfect for my use.
On to the Quest:
The good:
* As above, it is beautiful. Great color, interesting shape.
* The Quest is the strongest-climbing recumbent I have ever ridden (on moderate grades, see below). It just feels very strong uphill; it feels natural to put on power and accelerate uphill. I've put a lot of miles on other recumbents, which usually live up to their reputation as poor climbers, but the Quest really shines here.
* Once you learn to control it (see below!!!) it's a lot of fun to ride, and very comfortable over distance. I eat miles (or even more kilometers!) on the Quest.
* The components are well-matched to the bike. Both the SRAM internal hub and the cassette consistently shift smoothly under load. The whole drivetrain gives confidence. (I'd like to have a smaller elliptical chainring, see below).
* The disk brakes are very effective. Disk brakes were a key purchase factor for me (deciding to get the Quest instead of Sofrider), and they work very well, wet or dry. It took me a while to learn to adjust them (see an earlier post on this topic for a nice technique), but now this is a routine, 2-minute operation, and they stay adjusted for many miles.
* The seat is very comfortable. On rear-wheel-drive recumbents the seat serves a completely different function, since power is applied like a leg-press machine: between your lower back and the pedals, so their seats are built to cup the back. On the Quest, power is applied between the handlebars and the pedals, so there is no need to be cupped in, and I find this a very comfortable ride. The ability to quickly pull off the cushions is a great feature (when I need to run into a store, leaving the bike out in the rain, without coming back to a soaked seat).
* Did I mention that it is a truly beautiful bike?
* The rear shock functions well without pogo-ing. The front shock ... not as much (see below). As with disk brakes, the shocks were a key purchase factor for me, as a recumbent on a bumpy road without a good shock quickly becomes an unpleasant experience.
The bad:
* Front wheel drive is inherently unsuited to steep hills (more than 10% grade), because the drive wheel becomes unweighted when the bike tilts back. As I have written in this forum several times, it becomes very easy to spin the front wheel in this situation, at which point you are walking. Wet pavement makes this worse. I have learned to climb one block of 15% grade every day on my way home from work, and now *usually* make it (in dry weather). I routinely climb 10% grades. So it is possible to climb steep hills, but the bike design is working against you and the possibility of failure is ever-present. A bit of unseen sand or gravel and you are done. A smaller chainring and high cadence helps.
* It is tricky to find the adjustment balance between seat position, handlebar position, and top tube length. My knees clear the handlebars by a few millimeters (basically they just touch the gearshift clicker every stroke, and I had to turn the gearshift a little more forward than I would like). Ironically I improved this a bit by adding shims (about 3/4-inch) to *raise* the seat; this changes the leg geometry enough so that my knees are more forward of the handlebar. Maybe I need to try other handlebars, but haven't gotten around to it.
* The learning curve is long. With 15 years on recumbents I didn't take the learning curve warnings seriously. In fact, I was able to ride it immediately, but it took months and many hundreds of miles before I was really comfortable on it. It's more than pedal steer; the mass in front (including leg mass) makes the bike feel dramatically different than others. I have written in earlier posts about how riding no-hands finally taught me about its balance and control, but this was a long time coming. It wasn't until I could ride for miles on end without hands that I felt that I "owned" this bike and could really enjoy it. At several points in the learning curve I felt I had made the wrong choice and was ready to sell it. Even now I am not happy at high speed, and generally keep below about 25mph, certainly less than 30. (Fortunately I am old enough that I'm not trying to set any records). I still have the feeling that I could lose it at a moment's notice by high speed wobble; yes, I'm still scared of that.
* Again because of the mass in front, it's not as easy to walk the Quest or park it. You must always be aware of the front end swinging around - no casually holding it by the seat back or leaning it against your leg as you grab something out of your rear bag. I mounted a spring (see photo links) that keeps the front end from swinging, which helps.
* There is very little clearance between the front wheel and the fork crown. I changed the tires to 26x1.5 slicks for traction (I like rubber on the road, and am less concerned with speed), and then it became difficult to mount fenders. I made it work by cutting out a piece of the fender (see photo links), but the clearance is very tight, so leaves and road junk catches there. With the bike advertised as a commuter, this could be improved as fenders are a must.
* There's not a really secure way to lock the bike. As far as I can see, there is no place to lock it where someone with a set of allen wrenches (including a 10mm) could not dismantle any part of the frame in a few minutes and make off with the bike. I don't leave it outside for very long.
Suggested improvements:
* Better manual. My guess is that people who buy a Cruzbike enjoy working on their bikes and have tools. It is also true that most local bike shops don't want to work on a Quest because they can't test-ride it (even the shops that are willing to work on recumbents at all). Thus a better manual would really be useful. It should cover things like adjusting the front shock (and generally about the head tube), how to mount the Quest in a bike stand, adjusting the brakes (the info from SRAM is useless), which joints need lubrication and what kind of grease, ... Although it's a fair bit of work to write a manual, it might save a lot of time answering questions on the forum.
* More front-wheel clearance for larger tires and fenders. Also a mount point for fender struts in the back of the fork!!! (I made mine with zip-ties ... funky)
* Smaller elliptical chainring. As noted above, climbing steep hills requires a high cadence. I switched the elliptical chainring for a round 36T, not being able to find a small elliptical. I'd love to see this be an option. Even with my 36T ring, I can easily push it above 20mph on the flat, and I suspect that for many non-racers, this is enough. For anyone riding a lot of hills, a lower gear range is needed.
* Better front shock. The rear shock is great but the front one is hard to adjust and doesn't give much cushioning. I'm sure the roads in Perth are better than the lousy ones we have here, but I'd much appreciate a better front shock.
* Locking. The Quest needs a secure lock attachment that could not be easily dismantled.
Overall:
The Quest is a beautiful, original bike that is a lot of fun to ride _once you learn how_. Learning how to stay upright is just the beginning of a longer process than I expected. It's comfortable for long rides and the miles just seem to fly by. It is the best recumbent climber I've ever ridden, and I've ridden a lot of them, but for moderate grades only; above 10% grades things get dicey and it's easy to spin the front wheel. I'm very happy to be riding it every day, but I would not have been so sure of that 6 months ago. A lesson in persistence!
Billy K
Links to photos of my Quest and its mods:
From the Quest brag board forum, showing details of various mods:
https://picasaweb.google.com/108555949105733959248/QuestModsNov2012?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCLG95PPd8p7DvAE&feat=directlink
Photos showing details of an early version of the fairing mount:
https://picasaweb.google.com/108555949105733959248/QuestFairingMount?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCPzHn5Dr09y3cQ&feat=directlink
