Riding with racers

[Peder Torgersen]

On Sunday I went with some racers on a training trip. There was 25 racers and me I was the only one with a recumbent I had my Phantom since I do not have a Silvio. With my Sofrider I would not have been able to keep up with them. There was one lady that started she is top cyclist with a carbon racer. Some of the racers cost $10 000 with a weight around 7 kg. There was members from 3 clubs. I was able to keep up with them and tell some of them about recumbents. We went 82 km I stayed mostly in the back but going home I took a spurt going down hill and pasted everyone I did that a few times but then the pace increased going home. I was able to follow but the rest of the trip I stayed behind. I usually do shorter trips around 40 km with riders that are not club members. There is a picture of me on my Phantom on the back I have a commercial sign. The weather was great. They took some pictures and also of me and put a link to our homepage so now there club members and others can find out about Silvio and other recumbents. Here is a link to the club that took some pictures. It is in Norwegian but if you go down some pictures you will see me and the link to our company.
http://www.focc.no/nyheter/1194.aspx

 

[Mark B]

Peder,

Great pics, thanks for sharing! You guys look cold!

Mark

 

[Peder Torgersen]

There was frost the night before but with the sun shinning and the temperature around 8° C I did not freeze. I sweated through the whole trip even more the last kilometres keeping up with them. This bike club that the link is to they have a good sense of humor it is in Norwegian so only Scandinavians will understand what they write. I did not have any pain after the ride I would not have been able to complete that 82 km ride on an upright.

 

[Peder Torgersen]

This is also about the ride on Sunday I got an e-mail from a club member that took some pictures of me. I have a commercial sign on the back of the bike for recumbents. I told him about Silvio and sent a link. I thanked him for the pictures and said that Silvio will blend better to racers. Moral of the story have a sign on your bike ride with racers talk with them pass them let them read your sign. There was also some other pictures from this club hill climbing on Tuesday I was at work but have climbed these hills many times with the Sofrider it is a long climb I have been able to get up on 2 gear on my V1. I am not sure how steep it is but it takes a long time to get to the top. Linda the only lady in these rides is single but I think you need a Silvio to keep up with her.
http://www.focc.no/nyheter/1195.aspx


Hi,

I want to share my Flickr photos with you.

Hope you like them!

-- pedertorgersen

My photos
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21320247@N06/

 

[kling]

Hi Peder,

On Sunday did the 60km http://Freewaybikehike.com.au ride - annual event- where they close 60km of the main freeway (2-3 lanes wide), with train journey included to start and finish... is this done anywhere else apart from Perth?

Managed to join a 30-40 person peleton doing 38-42km/h and stay with it most of the way- with a final time of 1hr 40 minutes (which I thought was good following 2.5 hrs sleep overnight)

In such a big group forward vision is a bit limited, but otherwise it was a great ride. Certainly can slipstream on a Cruzbike

Cheers
Kendrick

 

[Mark B]

kling wrote: On Sunday did the 60km http://Freewaybikehike.com.au ride - annual event- where they close 60km of the main freeway (2-3 lanes wide), with train journey included to start and finish... is this done anywhere else apart from Perth?
Cheers
Kendrick

Here in Southern California, they don't shut down freeways for things like that, but they will usually have a play on the freeway day before they open a new freeway to traffic.

Mark

 

[Peder Torgersen]

Hi Kling
You did well in that race as far as I know they do not close the roads for bike races here in Norway but they put up some warning signs. I think it was in 1973 people here were not aloud for some months to drive on Sundays because of the oil crises. Closing the road during a bike race is great the riders are much safer.
Peder

 

[Peder Torgersen]

Ride report
I was in a race on Sunday April 27 it was 89 km with many hills. The same race I entered last year which was my first race. I did not do to well 3 hours and 25 minutes. The winner of the race came in on 2 hours and 16 minutes a former professional. I used about the same time last year 3hours and a half. I had trained more this year had several long trips in the weekends in February and March. My problem was I had not been on a long trip since Sunday March 16 because I was on a 2 week vacation and than got a cold when I got home. So without training for over a month I did not expect much. Even if I had not been sick I would be way after the best. I was the only one with a recumbent I used my Phantom for the first time in a race. The Sofrider climbs very well but the Phantom is faster on the flats. I had the streamer on it that helped for some speed and for the weather it rained but there was no wind. Last years race the weather was beautiful. There were different groups I started in one for ordinary people and some finished after me but many in that group were faster. I was in a group for about half way of the race then it split up we lost some and I rode with 2 other and then I fell behind and rode the rest by myself. You get a lot of time to think when you are riding alone. One thing I thought about was a race that I read about it was from Trondheim to Oslo a 540 km ride. A recumbent rider from Holland passed all the racers early rode alone and finished 1 hour and 40 minutes before the first racer. He impressed many it was on the news this was in 1997. But what also happened was that next year recumbents were not allowed to start in that race. :cry: So with my speed I thought I will not be the cause of a ban for recumbents in this race next year. Fast riders on racers or fast riders on recumbents they train a lot on a regular basis and honor for them. One point I also thought about is the Sofrider is a very good climber and you can use it in races. For many like myself just to complete a race is also a milestone. The Sofrider you can use it to ride many places it rides very well on dirt roads much better than my Phantom. I use it to work it is only 4 km one way but sometimes I take a longer ride home. For people thinking about starting exercising it is a fun and comfortable way of transportation and very practical. And if you want to go faster after some training you can up grade to a Silvio.
http://video.agderposten.no/movie.php?id=10000001532 Here is a link to a local TV station the elite were filmed. The film is from the flat parts when I came to the finish line I thought it is a good thing I do not have to go around another time for a second lap. I was tired but did not have any pain in my body which for me is the best part. I would never have entered a race on an upright it would be to painful. Maybe if i get a chance I can do better next year?
My time for training is limited but I enjoy riding. My long rides are mostly around 50 km. Sometimes I am able to go on two trips a week.
Peder

 

[Peder Torgersen]

I did not enter this race but there was a racer who had a camera on his bike. I have been in a few races with some of these racers they are over my fitness level. This race was 213 km started at sea level and went inland to 800 meters so they got even more climbing meters about 1800 meters. Here is a link the weather was very good some look very tired.The winner used 5 hours and 26 minutes.http://www.fvn.no/ftv/index.jsp?id=9584 This might be a race for a Silvio with a rider in a good fitness level?

Peder

 

[Mark B]

Peder Torgersen wrote: I did not enter this race but there was a racer who had a camera on his bike. I have been in a few races with some of these racers they are over my fitness level. This race was 213 km started at sea level and went inland to 800 meters so they got even more climbing meters about 1800 meters. Here is a link the weather was very good some look very tired.The winner used 5 hours and 26 minutes.http://www.fvn.no/ftv/index.jsp?id=9584 This might be a race for a Silvio with a rider in a good fitness level?

Peder

"I rekord fart" meant so much more to me.

Mark

 

[Rick Harker]

Hi Peder,

Its great to read about your adventures with the racers and you being the "odd" one on the recumbent.
Riding on the roads here there are times I think I'm doing a good pace at 35 km/h and then someone on a serious looking racer will flash past at what seems 45 or more and I always wonder how they can do that. Is it light bikes? Hidden nuclear power cells? More likely a finer tuned "engine".
When you talk of your Phantom being faster is it because of weight also as they have a seat angle greater than the Sofrider. I'm looking at getting a Silvio but what would make them quicker? Weight, faster wheels/tyres?
The reason for so many thoughts is because I've entered in a charity ride here in Melbourne with a 210 Km distance in one day. Scares me a little and I don't have the confidence yet with my Sofrider to ride that distance. Last year they had 14,000 entries.
I'm gunna have a go though...

Regards,

Rick.

 

[Hotdog]

Rick Harker wrote:
The reason for so many thoughts is because I've entered in a charity ride here in Melbourne with a 210 Km distance in one day. Scares me a little and I don't have the confidence yet with my Sofrider to ride that distance. Last year they had 14,000 entries.
I'm gunna have a go though...

Doing the Around the Bay in a Day ride, eh? Good on ya I've not done it myself yet but I will do when I get a chance. As it's not until October I'm sure you've got plenty of time to train up for it, just keep clocking up the km's and gradually increase the distance of the longest rides you do. I gather that the Around the Bay routes are fairly flat too, so that will help. Anyway, I think it's fantastic how many people take part each year, the 250km and one of the 210km routes are already sold old! :shock: (the numbers for three of the route options are limited because they involve ferries)

Regarding the difference in speed between different bikes, you're spot on with your guess it's mostly about the 'engine' Aerodynamics of the rider is the next most important factor (i.e. riding position make a big difference, it's why recumbents and TT/Tri bikes are noticeably faster than road bikes, which are in turn noticeably faster than hybrids, etc.), after that comes rolling resistance (good tyres are a relatively cheap upgrade with a potentially big payoff), and the least important factors are bike wheel aerodynamics, frame aerodynamics and bike + rider weight. There's a good discussion of this stuff here, and here's an illustrative quote:

BikeTechReview wrote:
Roughly, the average rider power requirements on a course with a zero net elevation gain is broken down into 60% rider drag, 8% wheel drag, 8% frame drag, 12% rolling resistance .5% wheel inertia forces and 8% bike/rider inertia. The uphill TT example given is a special case where the rider aerodynamics and the bike/rider weight have nearly equal contributions to power – somewhere around 35% each with wheel mass contributing around 1%. The steeper the hill, the more important mass becomes and the less important aerodynamics becomes. In all cases, however, there is approximately 3% of the average power unaccounted for.

Regarding a Silvio versus a Sofrider, well thepretically the Silvio would indeed be faster as the slightly lower seat height is probably a little more aerodynamic, the bigger 700C wheels with narrow high performance tyres will give lower rolling resistance and better wheel (tyre, mostly) aerodynamics, and the lower weight will help uphill. The racier handling and more sophisticated suspension may enable you to corner faster too. How much speed difference all that adds up to I couldn't say, we need the opinion of someone who rides both regularly. You could probably make up most of the difference by converting your Sofrider to 700c wheels, but the Silvio still seems tempting though, doesn't it? I must admit I'm considering one myself... :roll:

 

[Mark B]

Hotdog wrote: You could probably make up most of the difference by converting your Sofrider to 700c wheels, but the Silvio still seems tempting though, doesn't it? I must admit I'm considering one myself... :roll:

It's too late. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

Mark

 

[Hotdog]

Mark B wrote:

Hotdog wrote: You could probably make up most of the difference by converting your Sofrider to 700c wheels, but the Silvio still seems tempting though, doesn't it? I must admit I'm considering one myself... :roll:

It's too late. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

Mark

I think you might be right there... :?

I've already mentally promised myself a Silvio if I land the new job I've got my eye on, it'd be a significant increase in pay and a change from contract to permanent work so treating myself to a new bike to celebrate would be entirely reasonable, wouldn't it? If that doesn't happen I may still buy a Silvio, but in stages... start by getting a 700c wheelset and caliper brakes etc. and stick them on the Sofrider. Then if I like the result of that I can buy the rest of a road groupset, and then finally I'd buy a Silvio frameset and shift all the 'roadie' bits onto that

 

[Mark B]

Hotdog wrote: If that doesn't happen I may still buy a Silvio, but in stages... start by getting a 700c wheelset and caliper brakes etc. and stick them on the Sofrider. Then if I like the result of that I can buy the rest of a road groupset, and then finally I'd buy a Silvio frameset and shift all the 'roadie' bits onto that

That's way too complicated. Just jump in with both feet!

Mark

 

[Mark B]

Rick Harker wrote: I've entered in a charity ride here in Melbourne with a 210 Km distance in one day. Scares me a little and I don't have the confidence yet with my Sofrider to ride that distance. Last year they had 14,000 entries.
I'm gunna have a go though...

Regards,

Rick.

By my calculations, that's about 130 miles... That sounds like fun! Certainly, you want to build up your base miles and see to it you're getting in roughly that mileage per week. If you can do the mileage in a week's time, you can do it in one day. That's the accepted rule of thumb and I've found it to be true. Do that consistently, mixing in some rides of 80-100 miles and you will not suffer at all on the big day, as long as you don't try to run with the rabbits. Oh yeah, dial in an eating and hydration program for the long rides. You'll do great, no worries!

Mark

 

[Peder Torgersen]

Hotdog has many good points. I have the Sofrider V1 so the seat is higher that makes a big difference. On the flats the Phantom is faster but the Sofrider does climb very well. The Silvio also has a stiff frame which is important for speed. The world’s most expensive bike that cost 1 million USD the special thing about it is that they claim it is the stiffest bike ever made.
The Phantom is not a light bike the Silvio is lighter and stiffer that certainly helps going up hills. I have a streamer I use that on both bikes it helps. I have also thought about a tailsok that is also something that should help for speed. Has anyone tested it on a Silvio with a good result? Riding in a group also helps. I have tried that some times it is quiet fun. Some rides we changed regularly. One training ride I stayed behind because the other riders were in much better shape than me. Fitness level means a lot this is my second year racing and I found out many are on a much higher fitness level. There are also people on my level and even some on a lower level. Alone I can hold an average speed of 30 km for a couple of hours. Some of the top trained are close to 40 km average speed. It is going up hills I loose the most. My upper body is not that well trained. On my Sofrider I have tried speeding up a hill I can do that if the hill is not to long. But on a long hill I am not trained enough to utilize the ability of the Sofrider. I am sure the Silvio is a good climber but even if I had one I would not be able to keep up with the ones that are on a top fitness level. On dirt roads the Sofrider is much better than the Phantom.
Many of these racers have worked very hard for a long time. My ambitions are not that high but I have fun and meet different people. One racer commented about the little front wheel on the Phantom he did not like it. So a Silvio will also blend in better it looks more like a road bike. The biggest difference between the Silvio and a road bike is the seat and the suspension. I have also never seen a road bike with front wheel drive. How it is possible to make such long rides on an uncomfortable seat I can not understand.
I hope your ride goes well Rick on your Sofrider or perhaps a Silvio. You have time to train at least you can sit comfortable. If you find a group in the race to ride with a speed that is comfortable for you that also helps.

Peder

 

[Peder Torgersen]

Today I went for a 90 km ride with one racer he was 69 years old and started racing at the age of 60 his first race was from Trondheim to Oslo 540 km! He has been in that race each year since. His best average speed in that race was 31 km that is good for such a long race and his age. He also told me had been in races in France 1260 km long race and some climbing race in the Italian Alps 22.5° steep road which took about 4 hours to get to the top. In France he saw many recumbents in that long race there were over 300 Americans maybe something for Mark? He had a carbon racer and did roll very well down hill so I asked which tires he used.
He had Continental 4000 and Mavic rims. We went inland did a lot of climbing we were about the same fitness level. There was one hill he had to wait for me but when we were over half way there were more down hills and the wind picked up luckily it came from behind. So with my fairing on I sailed with very little effort now I had to wait for Otto. It was a fun trip I learned some new things. So those of you that are not 60 you can still start racing.

Peder

 

[Peder Torgersen]

I was in a local race on Wednesday I rode 25 km to the start and the race was 36 km long to rounds of 18 km. I used my Phantom which I had before I got a Sofrider. I have been experimenting with aerodynamics I have used a streamer which I also use on the Sofrider. I put on a tailsock that also improved the speed. Then I got some material 4 way stretch and put it between the streamer and the tailsock. The speed increased and the side wind was less noticeable then with just the streamer on. The weather forecast said no rain so I didn’t take my cape with me. :cry:
My average speed in the race was just over 35 km the winners had just over 42 km. It didn’t take long before the heavy rain came I would have been behind some of the racers to take advantage of the drag but the spray from there wheels was not very comfortable so when possible I passed them and rode first. The bike is heavy so up hills I lost to the racers but if the hills were small I would be able to catch up to them and pass them again going down hill and on the flats. But on the bigger hills I lost too much to be able to catch up.
One of the winners used an off-road bike he is well trained some of the racers also came in after me. The fitness level is important many racers put in very much training time a lot more then me. I got wet but not cold because of the streamer and the spandex. I also learned not to trust the weather forecast. The seat on the Phantom got wet and it takes a long time for it to dry up that is one reason why I use the Sofrider to and from work.
A Silvio would probably do much better on the hill climbing.
Here are some pictures from the race that a local club put in. I am not a club member and you do not have to be one to start in these races.
http://www.focc.no/bilder/1261.aspx

 

[Peder Torgersen]

It has been some weeks since I have had time to use my Phantom. Today I went on a trip alone 32 km the weather was nice no wind temperature 8°C. I wanted to test out the average speed after 20 km I had 36 km average speed which is the best I ever had. I get a regular training by commuting to work on my Sofrider. The unicycle training has also improved my leg muscles and wanted to test that on a recumbent. I ride on the side of the road 2 cars honked on me one very short just to let me know he was passing me and the other gave a long honk hoping maybe I got a heart attack! There was also a third car that came against me that honked he seemed to know me and waved but I didn’t recognize him.
Many other cars passed and many had children in them and many of them waved and smiled.

Peder