Rohloff SPEEDHUB Silvio S30 v2.2 Build

jslipscomb

New Member
My Silvio S30 2.2 model (2015) built with a Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14. Parts list, pictures, experience.

Rohloff Summary

Good:
  • Really low gears while still having a good high gear, wide gear range. Details in section below, "Gear Range". Short version: One pedal turn in high gear 376 in. = 9.55 m, low gear: 41.2 in. = 1.05 m. Rohloff sells custom cogs to bump both of these number up or down. Ratio 9.12:1.
  • Fast: Low friction. An acquaintance with two same-model trikes, one with a Rohloff, one with conventional gearing, reports no difference in speed on alternate rides. All my Silvio Rohloff rides are faster than they were on my different-model conventionally-geared recumbent racer. One would not know that Rohloff friction is low from spinning the wheel slowly and watching it stop, but friction is largely constant, increasing little with speed.
  • Never needs gear-change adjustment. Indeed, there is no provision for gear-change adjustment. Just an annual oil change is needed, easy enough to be done by the customer.
  • Never needs cleaning, except for the one exposed cog, because the gears are sealed.
  • Rarely misses a gear, and always gets the gear on the second try.
  • Never makes a gear permanently unreachable.
  • Shifts gears when standing still. No need to move forward after shifting to engage.

Bad:
  • Front flat nightmare? Or not. My bike shop tells me that if I ever get a front flat, call for a pickup to the shop, because taking off the wheel will require problematical Rohloff disassembly. I report but do not understand. Possible solution: Posts below about Gaadi Tubes, which can be changed without removing the wheel. -- Update: Gaadi tubes work well. Front tube change is quick. No stem extenders needed on my wheels. And although intended for 28mm 700c tires, they do fit in my 25mm 700c tires. Details below.
  • Requires mostly unloading the pedals with each shift, something not necessary for normal right-shifter gears. Riders adopt the habit of hesitating momentarily to shift in a consistent weak spot of the spin, usually just before the strong leg stomps down.
    • Unloading pedals with each shift is most difficult when the hill is way steep, in a high gear, and speed is 5 mph and dropping rapidly. Best to give up and stop the bike.
    • Locks up between gears 7 and 8 until pedal unloading is complete and total.
    • Fragile cable connection at the hub. The cable can come loose if one twists hard on the shifter, so really do mostly unload for each shift. Fragile because lockdown has problems if too tight or too loose, so no way to win.
      • If on the road the cable comes loose from twisting too hard, (1) Hand twist the connector off the hub using the big knob provided, (2) Tape the connector and loose wires to the bike frame, (3) Use a wrench to twist the hub nut to one extreme, and then count clicks twisting the other way to about gear seven. (4) Limp home working the left shifter. Ride with tape, or cable ties, and a small wrench.
    • Cable adjustment or repair may take an hour by a moderately experienced technician, compared to a normal shifter taking 5-10 minutes. Many challenges.
  • Sometimes on first try misses a gear: switches to a wrong gear, or no gear with the pedals freewheeling.
  • Heavy.
  • Expensive (but sometimes cheap and almost new on eBay from Mountain Bike riders who want to go back).
  • Few bike shops have the expertise (but mine was willing to learn, which they did from the enclosed extensive manual and some phone calls).
  • Not so bad, but note: Must convert to mountain bike handlebars and components. The smaller diameter (mountain bike diameter) Rohloff shifters will not fit on road bike handlebars, which have a larger diameter.
Details and website references are in posts below.
 
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jslipscomb

New Member
ROHLOFF 500/14-DB (DISC BRAKE) PHOTOS AND DESCRIPTION PLUS SOME RELATED COMPONENTS ON S30 2.2 model (2015)


The Silvio S30 2.2 model (2015) can accommodate mountain bike components, like the Rohloff hub. The S30's fork I am told has a spacing half-way between the spacing for road bike and mountain bike hubs and so can be bent to accommodate either. Earlier S30 models, 2.1 and before, can mount only road bike components.

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Photo below: Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14-DB
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Photo below: Rohloff left side.
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Photo below: Rohloff right side, sprocket.
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Photo below: Rohloff right side, SRAM X9 Type 2.1 Long Cage Rear Dérailleur.
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Photo below: Rohloff right side, SRAM X9 Type 2.1 Long Cage Rear Dérailleur.
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Photo below: Rohloff left side front axle.
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Photo below: Rohloff left side front axle closeup.
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Experience:

Washer (not easily visible) needed to space front fork farther apart so that Rohloff SPEEDHUB fits without interference.

Photo below: The tire is askew to one side as it passes under the forward arch under the chainstay extension. 25 mm tire shown. Guess as to cause: Silvio fork might be flexing asymmetrically when spread to accommodate wider mountain bike Rohloff hub.
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Photo below: The tire is better centered passing under the rear arch close to the rider. 25 mm tire shown. This askew mounting might limit the size of larger diameter tires (28 mm?).
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Photo below: Cabling, each photo moving up from front tire to handlebars.
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Photo below: Cabling, each photo moving up from front tire to handlebars.
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Photo below: Cabling, each photo moving up from front tire to handlebars.
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Photo below: Cabling, each photo moving up from front tire to handlebars. Mistake: The cables on the left side here near the handlebars should crisscross underneath the steering tube, but were not long enough. Consequence in next photo after.
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Photo below: View forward down the steering tube shows the importance of criss-crossing the cables under the tube on the way forward. The cables on the left are too short, they could not crisscross underneath, and consequently sprout up more in the way. On the right the cable criss-crosses underneath the steering tube, which sends it out flat so that the rise up in the air is away from the steering tube.
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Photo below: Handlebar overview.
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Photo below: Handlebar left grip showing Shimano Ultegra shifter.
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Photo below: Handlebar right grip showing Rohloff shifter.
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Photo below: Handlebar right grip close up of Rohloff shifter.
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Photo below: Handlebar looking down the right hand grip shows the two Rohloff cables coming out of the shifter forward, but angled down about 30 degrees. This helps to keep the cables away from the knees. Better than sticking forward and getting in the way. Silvio handlebar cabling is challenging, because the knees, handlebars, and cables all want to be in the same place at the same time. To point the cables down the Rohloff shifter must be rotated up so that the shift indicator is high, but at this angle it is well visible, and not rolled out of sight over the top of the tube.
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Gear Range

The Rohloff can get really low gears while still having a good high gear, wide gear range.

My setup measured:
One pedal turn in high gear 376 in. = 9.55 m.
One pedal turn in low gear: 41.2 in. = 1.05 m.
Therefore total gear ratio = 376 / 41.2 = 9.55 / 1.05 = 9.12:1.

My setup calculated:
Rohloff gear ratio = 5.26:1.
Shimano triple gear ratio = 52 teeth / 30 teeth = 1.73:1.
Therefore total gear ratio = 5.26 x 1.73 = 9.12:1

The standard Rohloff cog has 16 teeth, which would give gears 6% higher than my high-gear, low-gear above.

The bottom gear or two are too low for biking with a 30-tooth sprocket and my non-standard 17-tooth Rohloff cog, but my plan is to go trike, when Cruzbike sells that mod, and then spin up really steep hills too long to power up, really easily albeit slowly. And trike should be safer around cars when the shoulder is narrow and has ridges or gravel.

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Links

Rohloff hub product page: http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/speedhub/

Rohloff hub Wikipedia page, with some advantages/disadvantages and pointer to gear calculation page (Living with a Rohloff Hub by Andy Blance): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohloff_Speedhub

Gearing online calculators that include Rohloff Hub for comparison to traditional gearing:

* http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/internal.html Select Internal Hub: Rohloff 14-speed Speedhub

* http://www.gear-calculator.com/ Select Gearing: Rohloff Speedhub


Frameset and frameset-build by:
The Innovation Works, Inc.
d.b.a., New York City Recumbent Supply
302 Eastern Pkwy. #1-E; Brooklyn, NY 11225

Finished build by:
Yorktown Cycles
1899 Commerce Street
Yorktown Heights, NY 10598 USA
914-245-5504


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Parts: Complete itemized price and parts list - Parts that worked - The research has been done:

Prices and parts as of 2014-2015

Rohloff Hub and Wheels

$2690.00 Rohloff Speeddisc Speedhub 500/14-DB (Disc Brake) 240 Wheelset: Velocity Aileron with bladed spokes and reduced spoke count back wheel.

$72.06 Rohloff Speedhub 4-Bolt Rotor: fits Shimano, Hayes and Avid Calipers, Sold Each.

$45.00 Rohloff Axle Plate for QR Hub, CC OEM2.

$50.00 Speedhub sprocket, steel - 17-tooth (16-tooth gear is standard, but I wanted really low gears).

$56.00 Custom cog removal tool, presumably to replace standard 16-tooth gear with the 17-tooth gear I wanted.

$38.00 Monkey Bone Hub Mount (instead of more expensive Rohloff Speedbone).

$1.00 (est) Washer to space front fork farther apart so that Rohloff Speedhub fits without interference.

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Crankset, Shifters, Dérailleurs, Chain

$309.99 Shimano Ultegra 6703-G 170mm 30/39/52t Crankset, Bottom Bracket Not Included. Inner 30-tooth sprocket must be cut to fit Silvio. A bike shop can do it.

$29.99 BB Set 3P SH 6800 English Ultegra External Bottom Bracket Cups.

$114.00 SRAM X0 3-Speed Front Twist Shifter Black/Red.

$24.99 Shimano SLX/Deore RT66S 160mm 6-Bolt Rotor.

$69.99 Shimano Ultegra 6700-G 10-Speed Braze-On Triple Front Dérailleur.

$103.00 SRAM X9 Type 2.1 Long Cage Rear Dérailleur Gray.

$79.99 KMC X10SL 10 speed Chain.

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Brakes

No:
Brakes shown in photos. Brake pad spacing was so narrow that dragging brakes were a problem, and then the system broke in a crash - too fragile:
$139.99 Shimano XT M7858 Front Brake.
$139.99 Shimano XT M785B Rear Brake.
$55.99 Shimano BH90-SB 2000mm Disc Brake Hose Kit, Black.

Yes:
Replacement brakes with wider brake pad spacing and tougher components:
$240.00 Avid BB7 S MTB Disc Brakes with 180 mm HS1 Rotor.
$22.00 Avid FR levers.
$80.00 Labor
 
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jslipscomb

New Member
CUSTOM SHIM NEEDED TO ATTACH MOUNTAIN BIKE HANDLEBAR TO S30 2.2 model (2015)

The Silvio S30 2.2 model (2015) can accommodate mountain bike components, like the Rohloff hub. But mountain bike handlebars and components have a smaller diameter than road bike handlebars and components. So, there is no way that mountain bike components can be jammed onto the standard Silvio road-bike handlebars.


Experience:

The bike shop could not find mountain bike handlebars that had enough "drop" (big u-shaped bend) to ensure enough adjustment range while also having the fat middle to fit the Silvio handlebar mount.

A local machine shop took the Silvio handlebar and the mountain bike handlebar and made a shim (two u-shaped tubes) to adapt. Local machine shops generally are very expert and can do anything. A local machine shop may usually be found by a Google search for - machine shop near <zip code> - and then click on the Google map.

My mistakes:
  • I should have specified aluminum (rusting, heavy steel shown). Machinists do not necessarily know that bicycle = aluminum.
  • I specified too small a width, but the shim is gripped just OK.

Photo below: Shim overview.
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Photo below: Shim Closeup.
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Photo below: Half of shim.
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However, I do not recommend handlebar I got. It has too much "drop", poking too far back over my chest.

I find that the high, flat handlebars are comfortable, easy to steer, and miss my chest on tight turns, although the arm position (elbow below wrist) is not as aerodynamic as with drop handlebars.


Parts:

$250.00 Handlebar shim to fit narrow center of mountain bike handlebar to thick Cruzbike mount, by Fenbar, a local machine shop.
 
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jslipscomb

New Member
ZEFAL SPY MIRROR MOUNTING ON MOUNTAIN BIKE HANDLEBARS ON S30

The mountain bike handlebars required by the Rohloff SPEEDHUB have a smaller diameter than the usual Silvio Road bike handlebars.

This raises some challenges for mounting a rear-view mirror.

Experience:

The Zefal spy mirror, a popular S30 accessory, could not clamp down tight enough on the mountain bike handlebars, which have a smaller diameter than road-bike handlebars.

Solution was
* Two cable ties either side over the top.
* Remove bottom half of Zefal spy mirror strap, which seemed prone to fall off anyway.
* Scotch Permanent Mounting tape underneath to help keep the mirror from slipping on the handlebar.

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Parts:

$??.00 Incredibell bell.

$16.00 Zefal spy mirror. Needs Scotch Permanent Mounting tape (above) and zip-ties to mount on small-diameter mountain bike handlebars.

$10.00 Scotch Permanent Mounting tape. Also used for Flux Expert Taillight.
 
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jslipscomb

New Member
ERGON GRIPS SHORTENED AND ANGLED FOR MOUNTAIN BIKE HANDLEBAR WITH ROHLOFF SHIFTER ON S30 2.2 model (2015)

The large distance along the handlebars required by the Rohloff SPEEDHUB shiters can raise challenges for mounting Ergon handgrips.

Experience:

Two photos below: I like Ergon grips. The flange at end, normally a handrest for vertical handlebars ends, serves well on horizontal bar ends as a place to grip handlebars differently to relieve the constant pressure, good for long rides.
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The palm areas when flat are good for resting the palms. really needed for high handlebars, but when countersteering the edge digs into the palm. When angled down too far the palm areas do not support the palm, but at least to not dig the edge in when countersteering. I find that there is a happy intermediate angle that supports the palms but does not dig in the edge, at least now that my legs have learned not to wrench me around, and I need only light force to keep my direction. These grips are good, but only after that stage of learning.


Photo below: The bar-end should be tilted back, for best leverage from a forearm with the hand above the elbow.
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Two photos below: The Ergon grips have been shortened with a knife. more for the left grip, because otherwise the full stack of brake, shifter, and handgrip is too long to fit the straight segment of the handlebar I chose.
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Ergon also makes grips with no flanges (GP-1) or with longer flanges (GP-3 and GP-5).


Parts:

$60? Ergon GP-2 pair of handgrips.
 
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ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
Tire askew photo. ....Assuming tire is square based on front form photo then...... . Loosen the BB "cup clamps" at the top of your chain stay. Fix alignment. Retighten the clamp ¼ turn past hand snug.


Oh and nice work!!!!
 
Nice work. Was going to ask how you managed to get mtb brakes mounted on the bars, but you've documented that too... Thanks.
 

Martinius Berg

Active Member
What size rims and tires do you use on your beautiful bike ?

Rohloff hub in frontwheel : I can see your point and the consequences when getting a flat tire , so maybe this tube solution could help out ? http://www.gaadi.de

I tried the 26 " version with a Presta air valve on my home made electric bike with front wheel motor. The tube works nicely and is easy to repair or change out.

Sinc. Martinius.

My Silvio S30 2.2 model (2015) built with a Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14. Parts list, pictures, experience.

Rohloff Summary

Good:
  • Can get really low gears mwhile still having a good high gear, wide gear range. The bottom gear or two are too low for biking with a 30-tooth sprocket and a non-standard 17-tooth Rohloff cog, but my plan is to go trike, when Cruzbike sells that mod, and then spin up really steep hills too long to power up, really easily albeit slowly. And trike should be safer around cars when the shoulder is narrow and has ridges or gravel.
  • Fast: Low friction. An acquaintance with two same-model trikes, one with a Rohloff, one with conventional gearing, reports no difference in speed on alternate rides. All my Silvio Rohloff rides are faster than they were on my different-model conventionally-geared recumbent racer. One would not know that Rohloff friction is low from spinning the wheel slowly and watching it stop, but friction is largely constant, increasing little with speed.
  • Never needs gear-change adjustment. Indeed, there is no provision for gear-change adjustment. Just an annual oil change is needed, easy enough to be done by the customer.
  • Never needs cleaning, except for the one exposed cog, because the gears are sealed.
  • Rarely misses a gear, and always gets the gear on the second try.
  • Never makes a gear permanently unreachable.
  • Shifts gears when standing still. No need to move forward after shifting to engage.

Bad:
  • Front flat nightmare: My bike shop tells me that if I ever get a front flat, call for a pickup and bring it to the shop, because taking off the wheel will require problematical Rohloff disassembly. I report this but do not understand it independently.
  • Requires mostly unloading the pedals with each shift, something not necessary for normal right-shifter gears. Riders adopt the habit of hesitating momentarily to shift in a consistent weak spot of the spin, usually just before the strong leg stomps down.
    • Unloading pedals with each shift is most difficult when the hill is way steep, in a high gear, and speed is 5 mph and dropping rapidly. Best to give up and stop the bike.
    • Locks up between gears 7 and 8 until pedal unloading is complete and total.
    • Fragile cable connection at the hub. The cable can come loose if one twists hard on the shifter, so really do mostly unload for each shift. Fragile because lockdown has problems if too tight or too loose, so no way to win.
      • If on the road the cable comes loose from twisting too hard, (1) Hand twist the connector off the hub using the big knob provided, (2) Tape the connector and loose wires to the bike frame, (3) Use a wrench to twist the hub nut to one extreme, and then count clicks twisting the other way to about gear seven. (4) Limp home working the left shifter. Ride with tape, or cable ties, and a small wrench.
    • Cable adjustment or repair may take an hour by a moderately experienced technician, compared to a normal shifter taking 5-10 minutes. Many challenges.
  • Sometimes on first try misses a gear: switches to a wrong gear, or no gear with the pedals freewheeling.
  • Heavy.
  • Expensive (but sometimes cheap and almost new on eBay from Mountain Bike riders who want to go back).
  • Few bike shops have the expertise (but mine was willing to learn, which they did from the enclosed extensive manual and some phone calls).
  • Not so bad, but note: Must convert to mountain bike handlebars and components. The smaller diameter (mountain bike diameter) Rohloff shifters will not fit on road bike handlebars, which have a larger diameter.
Details and website references are in posts below.
 

jslipscomb

New Member
What size rims and tires do you use on your beautiful bike ?

Rohloff hub in frontwheel : I can see your point and the consequences when getting a flat tire , so maybe this tube solution could help out ? http://www.gaadi.de

I tried the 26 " version with a Presta air valve on my home made electric bike with front wheel motor. The tube works nicely and is easy to repair or change out.

Sinc. Martinius.
Thank you, thank you. With a Gaadi tube I am now able to change a tube without removing the wheel from the hub. Removing a Rohloff front wheel may be impossible on the road. English speakers do a Google search for Gaadi Tubes.

Update: Gaadi tubes work well. Front tube change is quick. No stem extenders needed on my wheels. And although intended for 28mm 700c tires, they do fit in my 25mm 700c tires.

Update: Tip from experience: Before putting a tube in a tire is is ordinarily wise to inflate the tube first to see if it leaks. If the new tube is defective and leaky, instant flat. But testing a Gaddi tube like this makes it permanently longer, and it can be fit into the tire only by overlapping the two ends of the now longer tube, the two ends that would have just touched had the tube not been pre-tested. So, yes I did it and had to overlap the two ends, but nothing bad happened: tire rolls smoothly and no flat after a thousand miles.


Wheels: I use Velocity Aileron 700c wheels with bladed spokes and on the back wheel a reduced spoke count. These rims are strong and aerodynamic, but need a long stem on the tube. They also provide a wide sidewall onto which I have put 3M reflective tape, as you can see in the photos. http://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/aileron-622

Wheels: Cruzbike recommends A67 wheels, which look similar to the Ailerons: http://cruzbike.com/A67-wheels.html

Tires: I use Specialized All Condition Armadillo Elite tires, which have been reviewed to be the toughest (resistant to puncture) not-too-slow tires on the market today. But several other brands of tough tires test very close, so one cannot go wrong with them either.

Thanks again.
 
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castlerobber

Zen MBB Master

Martinius Berg

Active Member
Meating a new challenge with your new Rohloff gear system ? There are larger replacement cogs like 19 T , 20 T and 21 T for sale:) Cycle Monkey store have the best Rohloff expertise in the US :)

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-sprocket-for-rohloff-hubs-19t-prod28817/

https://www.philwood.com/products/drvtrn/cogs.php

http://cyclemonkey.bigcartel.com/product/rohloff-speedhub-500-14-sprockets-8219-8220-8221-8222-8223

Or change the front chain wheel to a smaller size in a good combination with the rear cog , a combination that fits well to your needs :)
 
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