S40 newbie questions

[rdl03]

Took me close to a year to build up my frame, but finally starting to ride. Of course lots of questions...
1. Seat - is it really held in place by just the 2 screws at the bottom and velcro?
2. Headrest - I don't quite feel comfortable with my head on the headrest. It feels like I'd be more comfortable with my head 1-2 cm further forward. It that just part of getting used to how different this is from an upright, or am is there a decent probability that the stock head rest won't work? What do people think about the adjustable/suspension alternative? Is it a worthwhile investment for the extra adjustability it provides?
3. traction - my driveway is unpaved, and hits around 10%. I haven't been able to ride up it without losing traction (front tire is 700x28 at 50 psi, fairly slick tread). Is that just a "fact of life"? Is there a maximum grade you can climb, regardless of road surface and tire tread?
4. Adjustment - I've gone through about 6 iterations of adjusting the crank and handlebar position. Does it take a while to get that right?
5. Bumps. After experiencing how much more the body is impacted by bumpy roads, I bought a 700x40 tire for the back to absorb more. Is that overkill?
6. Climbing. Is the goal to pull with the arms without also moving the body forward (which is what I've been doing.).

I still feel like I'm learning to ride all over again, but definitely excited about the potential for comfort (I'm a Rando, so long rides are a lot of what I do.).

 

[Mathew Fy]

1. Seat - is it really held in place by just the 2 screws at the bottom and velcro?
The newer S40s have a black "u" shaped clamp that wraps around the upper frame. Older models used something like P-clamps that attached to the headrest tubes. I get by with the lower screws and Velcro only.

2. Headrest - I don't quite feel comfortable with my head on the headrest. It feels like I'd be more comfortable with my head 1-2 cm further forward. It that just part of getting used to how different this is from an upright, or am is there a decent probability that the stock head rest won't work? What do people think about the adjustable/suspension alternative? Is it a worthwhile investment for the extra adjustability it provides?
Some do not use the headrest at all. Here's my set-up: https://forum.cruzbike.com/threads/handlebar-configurations-s30-specifically.13726/#post-173453

3. traction - my driveway is unpaved, and hits around 10%. I haven't been able to ride up it without losing traction (front tire is 700x28 at 50 psi, fairly slick tread). Is that just a "fact of life"? Is there a maximum grade you can climb, regardless of road surface and tire tread?
On clean, smooth pavement I start to slip at 15-20%, but usually can get up as long as I can put out smooth power. On poor pavement maybe 10-15%. On gravel or loose dirt, forget it. Unless you have the T50e two-wheel drive.

4. Adjustment - I've gone through about 6 iterations of adjusting the crank and handlebar position. Does it take a while to get that right?

Handlebar configurations--S30, specifically

Just bought an S30. Came with a non-standard handlebar installed as well as the original and one other. Does anyone have this one installed? What are the advantages and disadvantages of each of these? I had test ridden a Sofrider, S40, and a Silvio 2.0 prior to buying the S30. Each had the...

forum.cruzbike.com

5. Bumps. After experiencing how much more the body is impacted by bumpy roads, I bought a 700x40 tire for the back to absorb more. Is that overkill?
Not overkill, I have 640b x 42 on the back of mine. Also go for lower pressure. Tubeless set-up will reduce chance of pinch flats.

6. Climbing. Is the goal to pull with the arms without also moving the body forward (which is what I've been doing.).
The goal is to use your hands to stabilize the steering, unless you're really putting the hammer down.

 

[rdl03]

Thanks. Lots of useful information in your responses.

 

[Beano]

1. Yes
2. I had the same thing with my s40 and bought the adjustable headrest - well worth it.
3. The steepest grade I've been up is 14% without slippage. However factors effect this. If the road is wet than this comes down to around 10% ime. Also the gearing you are in has an effect. For example if you are in a fairly high gear mashing the pedals then this delivers a large amount of torque to the drive wheel which will increase the chance of the drive wheel slipping, smooth pedaling action is the way to go.
4. It can take some time to get right.
5. No it's not, I prefer a ventisit cushion myself
6. If you are moving the body forward I would say something is wrong and it could be down to the point 2. Being relaxed in the seat with your upper body, neck and head should mean that you should not be moving the body forward, hips should be fixed.

My own experience of using the bar to climb is with rollers only. Any sort of roller I use the bar and upper body to sprint down the hill and using that extra bit of power to get up the hill. A sustained climb I'm only using the bars to steer the bike, I'd be looking at your gearing. I currently run 50/34 * 11/40 which gives low gears in order to pedal up the majority of hills.

 

[bladderhead]

I got lots of wheel-spin in the early days, but it stopped happening. Almost completely. Recently I was defeated by some steep gravel. You may eventually make it up your driveway but if not, it will be the only place you cannot manage.

It took me ages and miles to get my Silvio adjusted. S40 took less time, because I am a veteran now. When you get it right the bike disappears and it just becomes like another limb. Unfortunately my Silvio actually disappeared.

Big squashy tyres are better than Silvio suspension.

I do a lot of commuting, and in the tight turns I lean forward. When I am climbing or sprinting I remain seated, but I pull the bars. This is the way to get extra power on a Cruzbike. Unlike on the Grasshopper, where I push my back into the seat.

 

[chicorider]

@rdl03 First, welcome!

I started riding Cruzbikes (a V20) seven years ago, out of desperation that my angry lower back was about to knock me off the bike permanently. I took a chance, built up a sweet V20, spent the next month wondering if I had made an expensive mistake, stuck with it anyway (discovering that I was on "the learning curve"), rode my way through it, and haven't looked back since. I have owned and ridden the whole range of Cruzbikes, and am currently down to and happy with the V20c and S30.

1. There are various ways to fasten the seat pan at the top, though the current U-bracket is perhaps the most convenient. If you have a model year S40 that was pre-U clamp, you might still be able to get one through Cruzbike and install it. The shape of the mainframe has most likely not changed and will fit the clamp. The carbon fiber seat pan is quite tough and can take the drilling needed for the clamp. But there are other ways too. Let me know if you want to talk more on this.

2. For the headrest, how tall are you? Many people don't use a headrest on the S40 because the seat angle is just about steep enough to not require one. On my V20 and S30, since I am short, at 5'5", I put a forward cold bend on my headrest tubes to bring the top part forward while keeping the lower part back; it is meant to be a headrest, not a neckrest. It has worked fine for me all this time. Again, let me know if you want to talk more about this.

3. Gravel plus grade is a traction-killer on these bikes. I don't know how long your driveway is, but you might just be best to walk the bike up to the road, and go from there. Also, in my experience, the V20 has the least wheel-slip while the S40 had the worst, with the S30 right in between. Even just taking off from a red light, the S40 would often slip, while the V20 almost never does. The best way to combat wheel-slip is to ride the easiest, lowest torque gear you have, even if it means riding a silly-high cadence for a little bit. Once you gear down for a more appropriate cadence, you start applying enough torque to create wheel-slip when the road surface is sketchy.

4. Back at the beginning, it took me over 1000 miles to dial in my preferred fit. Yes, it does take a while. And yes, it does involve some trial and error. Let me know if you want to talk this through more. There are some tricks.

5. I too noticed the bumps at first, but you will get used to them, and to varying road surfaces. You will learn that you cannot bunny-hop anything. You cannot hit that uneven bridge junction at 25mph and expect your aluminum front rim to be happy about it, let alone undented. But you will also figure it out, and find your favorite tire and air pressure combo. Right now, I am running 700x30 tubeless tires on my V20c, at 62psi front and back (I weigh 130lbs.), and it is high-speed heaven. But as for the general chatter, you will adjust. I told myself, rather than a few small pressure points taking all of the abuse (butt, shoulders, hands, neck), it has all been more evenly distributed across more of the body.

6. I love climbing. The advantage to the Cruzbike design is that you can pull on the bars to apply more power to the pedal stroke, much in the same way that a DF rider can stand and pedal, rocking the bike back and forth to put more power to the pedals. With traditional recumbent designs, the upper body is largely isolated from pedaling and does little more than steer the bars. With a Cruzbike, the upper body is involved too. But just as most mortal DF riders stand and climb only when needed (to clear a steeper pitch, to pass a slower rider, etc.), climbing on a CB is similar in that you spend most of your time in a gear that you can maintain with a fairly high cadence for the duration of the climb, while keeping your upper body mostly quiet. There is a rhythm to climbing that will come over time.

My first ride on the V20--my first recumbent--was the scariest road ride of my adult life. I did seven miles on a six-mile road because I was weaving all over the place so much. It is a lot like learning to ride a bike, again. Some people give up on it too soon; they don't get through and over the learning curve, which can be frustrating and does take time. But it can also be truly rewarding on the other side.

 

[rdl03]

Great to see so many helpful responses. I need to adjust my settings so I get an email each time there's a response.
I have a full wood working shop, and more or less a full bike shop in my garage. I had the upper clamp for the seat all along, and just didn't recognize it in the maze of "stuff" I have. It's attached now.

My driveway is about 100 yards long, so I will continue to ride at least the flat part. Don't mind walking the hill.

Would love to hear any suggestions / tricks about getting the fit right. I'm ready to do another tweak after today's ride.

Craig - I'm curious the learn more about what you did with your headrest. It's obvious that it's really for the neck (i.e., below the helmet.).
When I'm leaning back using it, it feels "almost" comfortable. I'm not sure if I need it a bit more forward, or if it's because I don't have the handlebar position right yet, and they need to be back a little bit more, so my arms can relax more. I do like having that bit of head support.

I too love climbing. On my upright I've done some pretty significant ones. Will be curious if I can continue to go after big climbs once I get comfortable on the Cruzbike. (Of course I also turned 70 this year, so that's a factor regardless of bike.).
I rode 34km today. I think that takes me over 100km on the S40. Still not ready to ride it on the shoulder of a road with cars, but getting closer.

For those of you using clip in pedals, when did you switch back to them? (I got some inexpensive platforms that are much nicer than clipins with "normal" shoes. They've actually pretty nice!).

 

[Beano]

Great to see so many helpful responses. I need to adjust my settings so I get an email each time there's a response.
I have a full wood working shop, and more or less a full bike shop in my garage. I had the upper clamp for the seat all along, and just didn't recognize it in the maze of "stuff" I have. It's attached now.

My driveway is about 100 yards long, so I will continue to ride at least the flat part. Don't mind walking the hill.

Would love to hear any suggestions / tricks about getting the fit right. I'm ready to do another tweak after today's ride.

Craig - I'm curious the learn more about what you did with your headrest. It's obvious that it's really for the neck (i.e., below the helmet.).
When I'm leaning back using it, it feels "almost" comfortable. I'm not sure if I need it a bit more forward, or if it's because I don't have the handlebar position right yet, and they need to be back a little bit more, so my arms can relax more. I do like having that bit of head support.

I too love climbing. On my upright I've done some pretty significant ones. Will be curious if I can continue to go after big climbs once I get comfortable on the Cruzbike. (Of course I also turned 70 this year, so that's a factor regardless of bike.).
I rode 34km today. I think that takes me over 100km on the S40. Still not ready to ride it on the shoulder of a road with cars, but getting closer.

For those of you using clip in pedals, when did you switch back to them? (I got some inexpensive platforms that are much nicer than clipins with "normal" shoes. They've actually pretty nice!).

Regarding fit, I'd say trial and error. If you have a trainer or a stand that you can put the bike on then this helps. Don't be afraid to think outside the box and experiment with different bars and the way they are angled on the bike.

I went clipless as I soon as I felt comfortable riding the bike. Would have been after about 2 hours riding give or take being spent in a car park doing stop start drills and then onto tight figure of 8's.

 

[chicorider]

@rdl03 The idea with the headrest is to have the pad contact the knob at the base of the skull, but not so much the neck bones and tissues beneath that knob. The skull is pretty tough, while the neck is rather delicate. I am attaching some pics to show how I bent the headrest slightly forward, with the help of a bending jig to keep the tubes from creasing.

I agree with Beano about the fit process involving some trial and error. For example, some people like their arms to have a good bend at the elbow, so they pull the bars closer in. Others like straighter arms, so they put the bars father away. My process for finding where I like the headrest, bars, and pedals is to extend them outward in small, measured increments, until I hit "too far." Then I pull it back in just a bit, and that will put me at either "just right," or very close to it.

Clipless pedals make riding these bikes easier (once the initial wobbly period is out of the way). Since the feet influence the steering on this design, having them clipped in helps to create better unity between body, bike, and pedal stroke.

Finally, I would say that I climb more on the V20 than in my DF bike days because I am climbing in comfort. The bike itself has not been a liability in the climbs. Six years ago I laid down my best effort time on a local hill climb that is used for an annual uphill time trial (The prize: a case of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale for those who climb the hill under their age. I missed it by 40 seconds). That was on my last DF bike, shortly before switching to a V20. About six months ago, I broke that DF PR by almost two minutes on the V20, on a day when I was "just out for a ride." Even I said, "wait, recumbents aren't supposed to do that," when I looked at the results after the ride.

 

[rdl03]

Thanks for the pictures. I've already been thinking about "making something" for the headrest - that would be shorter, wider, and made of a firmer material. I'm short - 5.6" - close to the bottom of the fit range, and not at all surprised or disappointed if I have to do a bit of outside the box customizing. I enjoy that sort of stuff. I build my own wheels; modified the mount for my handlebar bag on my upright by using a second stem underneath the one the handlebars are attached ....

I am pretty amazed and inspired hearing what these bikes are capable of in terms of climbing.
I'm hoping it will also make me a better descender. A definite part of my decision to give the Cruzbike a try was a ride a couple years ago, descending Cayuse Pass (on Mt. Rainier) from North to South. Going that way you are on the downslope side of the mountain - no guard rail or any barrier. I freaked and rode the brakes all the way down. Hoping to do better on the S40.

I'm terms of switching to clipless. I don't think I'm quite ready yet. Waiting for a 5km+ stretch with no funny little twitches with the handlebars, and then I'll give them a try.

 

[chicorider]

It sounds like you are well on your way. Enjoy the process, as it is almost a kind of initiation.

Good to hear from a fellow wheel builder. It's such a satisfying job.

 

[ak-tux]

5. Bumps. After experiencing how much more the body is impacted by bumpy roads, I bought a 700x40 tire for the back to absorb more. Is that overkill?

Tip: Seat up when going over bumps or push your shoulders against the seat and lift off your bottom slightly to reduce the jolt from the bump. Asumming that it's only a short section.