I guess it took me three years to finally realize how to use Cruzbike's aero advantage to keep up with my DF friends. I was slow to begin with, even before switching to S40. After switching, I just wasn't able to keep up with the rest of group climbing hills, even now in the 3rd year riding. Going downhills, I usually stop pedaling and try to take a break before the next climb. So the result is frequently I am just getting farther behind until they stop for a break for me to catch up. Thanks to @DocS, who mentioned in one of his posts that he usually pedals faster going downhills to get more momentum for the hills coming up. The light bulb went on, and I changed my riding style. Now I try to speed downhills to get more momentum going uphills or to pass the group before they pass me going uphills. So far it has worked well. I have kept up with the group most of the time for the past two rides!
S40 riding technique
- Thread starter cpml123
- Start date
velocio
Austrian roadside steckerlfisch (fish on a stick)
I read "Rollers are an absolute blast on a S40" and my heart skipped a beat in awe of Beano's proficiency on the Cruzbike platform. I can usually get my S40 to travel in a straight line (usually), but the Zen master-like skill and oneness with the Cruzbike to ride rollers is truly next level. Then I continued reading ... well shoot ...
I have a crisp new $1 bill (delivered as Paypal virtual currency) for anyone who can post a video of themself riding a Cruzbike on real rollers, not the repeating baby hill variety. $2 for a video of a cat riding a Cruzbike on rollers.
-Jack
I have a crisp new $1 bill (delivered as Paypal virtual currency) for anyone who can post a video of themself riding a Cruzbike on real rollers, not the repeating baby hill variety. $2 for a video of a cat riding a Cruzbike on rollers.
-Jack
Yep, that's the ticket. The goal should be going full tilt at the base of the hill then hit it as hard as you can taking advantage of the momentum you've built up.
A friend that rides a velomobile (that weighs 55 pounds) has this down to perfection. Unless the hill is really long his goal is to make it to the top with some speed left. As an interesting aside, he's done some rides with a lot of extended climbing and has "adapted" to that pretty well. He says "anything that happens isn't going to happen fast" so he just keeps the pedals turning over, listens to music, catches up on email on his phone, etc. Overall he's super fast though (600K in less than 24 hours) on the right terrain.
The only real problem with any bikes that have performance characteristics different than a DF (tandems, fixed gear, Cruzbike, etc) is their performance characteristics are so different from DF bikes that it's difficult to do group rides on hilly terrain. I have another friend that's a super strong rider who only rides a fixed gear. It's impossible to ride "together" in hilly terrain when I'm on a geared DF. I drop him on the climbs as he grinds his way up then leave him on the descents as he spins like a hamster. We can only ride together on relatively flat terrain.
Riding with equally matched friends on the S40 (it's very hilly where I live), they drop me on the climbs, I pass them on the descents and leave them on the flats. We're riding "at the same time", not really "together"
A friend that rides a velomobile (that weighs 55 pounds) has this down to perfection. Unless the hill is really long his goal is to make it to the top with some speed left. As an interesting aside, he's done some rides with a lot of extended climbing and has "adapted" to that pretty well. He says "anything that happens isn't going to happen fast" so he just keeps the pedals turning over, listens to music, catches up on email on his phone, etc. Overall he's super fast though (600K in less than 24 hours) on the right terrain.
The only real problem with any bikes that have performance characteristics different than a DF (tandems, fixed gear, Cruzbike, etc) is their performance characteristics are so different from DF bikes that it's difficult to do group rides on hilly terrain. I have another friend that's a super strong rider who only rides a fixed gear. It's impossible to ride "together" in hilly terrain when I'm on a geared DF. I drop him on the climbs as he grinds his way up then leave him on the descents as he spins like a hamster. We can only ride together on relatively flat terrain.
Riding with equally matched friends on the S40 (it's very hilly where I live), they drop me on the climbs, I pass them on the descents and leave them on the flats. We're riding "at the same time", not really "together"
Right now we ride together in flats for sure. We all have different speeds going up or down hills. I think we all accepted the fact we can't be together in hills. Ridng in a pace line is fun. I get lots of draft from them. Tried to pull sometimes but they said they don't get much draft. I took that as in I will just keep enjoying the draft in the back.
ak-tux
Zen MBB Master
Last edited:
3bs
whereabouts unknown
Besides restyling your ride to use your speed and momentum on declines, I think that there are transformative moments in group riding with DF’s. I learned some of this riding with DF’s on my trikes and then used the cruzbike features to press harder.
first is using your gears. I easily shift twice as many times as most of my DF friends ride partners. One guy however has figured following my shift logic has made him faster.
second is climbing. Figuring out how to engage your upper body in the climb and being willing to mentally tear the bike apart pulling with your arms as you shred with your legs will transfer power that puts you with the better climbers if not ahead of them.
Third is down hill speed control. Being comfortable above 30 will get you there faster. Due to my wreck on the tica, I have had a long road back to confidence.
first is using your gears. I easily shift twice as many times as most of my DF friends ride partners. One guy however has figured following my shift logic has made him faster.
second is climbing. Figuring out how to engage your upper body in the climb and being willing to mentally tear the bike apart pulling with your arms as you shred with your legs will transfer power that puts you with the better climbers if not ahead of them.
Third is down hill speed control. Being comfortable above 30 will get you there faster. Due to my wreck on the tica, I have had a long road back to confidence.
Thanks for the tips!
Gearing... getting better. I think it's due to Sram's double tap mechanism and shifting more with just 1 finger, my wrist and finger were hurting for a while. I changed to shift with 2 or 3 fingers, all good now. Agree I need to shift more effectively. Any specific tips?
Speed... I am actually ok with going over 30mph... if I do get to that speed going downhill. :- ) I will just use the whole car lane instead of bike lane going that fast.
Pulling with arms... still have to figure that out. I still push with legs while using arms to balance the bike and keep it going straight.
3bs
whereabouts unknown
the first step in using your gears for success is to determine your optimum pedal cadence. for example i pedal best at about 82-85 for most situation, but when i am riding into the wind i like to be about 89-92. there are quite a few threads on finding optimal cadence. i am currently trying to pull my cadence under 80 as an experiment, but if i am not paying attention i go to my natural spin speed.
from there on, its really a matter of self analysis to tune the concepts and using all of your gears to collect enough data for your mind to make gear changes without you having to think about it.
keep in mind the old adage, get in the gear you want before you actually need it. in other words, don't wait till the hill is killing you to downshift. i vary that advice by personally using two gear or three changes to optimum rather than one. some guys will pedal pedal pedal then drop 2 or 3 cogs to climbing gear. i break that into segments, favoring smooth cadence transitions over limiting shifts.
on down hills, i will often make a little sprint at the start of the decline to get up to my tallest gear for the decline as soon as i can in order to get the bike up to maximum pedal rotation, so that if i have to coast, i am at redline as fast as i can be. that also allows me to settle in if i am over 30
when i am trying power up to another gear, sometimes i will drop a gear to help me spin up over my preferred rpm and then drop into the new gear right at preferred.
then from a training standpoint, it also become simple. to train on hills, try and make the hill one gear up to train on rollie polies, try and pedal 10 more strokes up that next hill than last time before you drop a gear. on the flats, do intervals by changing gears and try to hold an rpm for a few minutes or a speed for a few minutes, or a gear. this is why it is a good idea to have a training loop that you do regularly. say, 10 miles with 5 or 6 types of terrain.
when it comes to pulling on the bars against you legs you will eventually pull back on the legs as you hammer, which will cancel out and keep the bike pretty straight. since i am not naturally coordinated, or have great balance but i have fairly good passive learning and processing, i dont have good advice on how to train yourself to do it. for me when i consciously tried to do it, i almost wiped out several times, and now it just happens. my DF riding partners know i always attack hills and that i attack a little sooner than they do, so they help by pressing me.
hopefully some of this helps. but i am by no means the expert on any of this. larry jason ratz maria ed and many others are the real experts. just watching their videos and visualizing your own success will take you really far.
from there on, its really a matter of self analysis to tune the concepts and using all of your gears to collect enough data for your mind to make gear changes without you having to think about it.
keep in mind the old adage, get in the gear you want before you actually need it. in other words, don't wait till the hill is killing you to downshift. i vary that advice by personally using two gear or three changes to optimum rather than one. some guys will pedal pedal pedal then drop 2 or 3 cogs to climbing gear. i break that into segments, favoring smooth cadence transitions over limiting shifts.
on down hills, i will often make a little sprint at the start of the decline to get up to my tallest gear for the decline as soon as i can in order to get the bike up to maximum pedal rotation, so that if i have to coast, i am at redline as fast as i can be. that also allows me to settle in if i am over 30
when i am trying power up to another gear, sometimes i will drop a gear to help me spin up over my preferred rpm and then drop into the new gear right at preferred.
then from a training standpoint, it also become simple. to train on hills, try and make the hill one gear up to train on rollie polies, try and pedal 10 more strokes up that next hill than last time before you drop a gear. on the flats, do intervals by changing gears and try to hold an rpm for a few minutes or a speed for a few minutes, or a gear. this is why it is a good idea to have a training loop that you do regularly. say, 10 miles with 5 or 6 types of terrain.
when it comes to pulling on the bars against you legs you will eventually pull back on the legs as you hammer, which will cancel out and keep the bike pretty straight. since i am not naturally coordinated, or have great balance but i have fairly good passive learning and processing, i dont have good advice on how to train yourself to do it. for me when i consciously tried to do it, i almost wiped out several times, and now it just happens. my DF riding partners know i always attack hills and that i attack a little sooner than they do, so they help by pressing me.
hopefully some of this helps. but i am by no means the expert on any of this. larry jason ratz maria ed and many others are the real experts. just watching their videos and visualizing your own success will take you really far.
DocS
Guru
"Thanks to @DocS, who mentioned in one of his posts that he usually pedals faster going downhills to get more momentum for the hills coming up. The light bulb went on, and I changed my riding style. "
Thanks for the Cudos cpml123!
One thing to be cautious of is starting to sprint too early and running out of gas on the incine....
As 3BS said, shifting as your climbing keeps the momentum going a bit longer, i.e., as I'm going up the incline, I'm maintaining my cadence... Once I feel it drop, I shift down one gear... Then repeat until I'm in my lowest gear or crest the hill...
I had a great Texas Hill Country ride with a Veterans riding group Saturday. They were surprised when I caught up with the fast group, going up a long hill from a stop...
I passed them doing down the other side doing 45.4 MPH! My average speed for this 40 mile ride was 21mph...
https://www.strava.com/activities/3780969090
I have a couple of them considering trying a Vendetta
Blessings,
DocS
Thanks for the Cudos cpml123!
One thing to be cautious of is starting to sprint too early and running out of gas on the incine....
As 3BS said, shifting as your climbing keeps the momentum going a bit longer, i.e., as I'm going up the incline, I'm maintaining my cadence... Once I feel it drop, I shift down one gear... Then repeat until I'm in my lowest gear or crest the hill...
I had a great Texas Hill Country ride with a Veterans riding group Saturday. They were surprised when I caught up with the fast group, going up a long hill from a stop...
I passed them doing down the other side doing 45.4 MPH! My average speed for this 40 mile ride was 21mph...
https://www.strava.com/activities/3780969090
I have a couple of them considering trying a Vendetta
Blessings,
DocS
@DocS that's awesome average wattage and fast speed! Very impressive. Whew!"Thanks to @DocS, who mentioned in one of his posts that he usually pedals faster going downhills to get more momentum for the hills coming up. The light bulb went on, and I changed my riding style. "
Thanks for the Cudos cpml123!
One thing to be cautious of is starting to sprint too early and running out of gas on the incine....
As 3BS said, shifting as your climbing keeps the momentum going a bit longer, i.e., as I'm going up the incline, I'm maintaining my cadence... Once I feel it drop, I shift down one gear... Then repeat until I'm in my lowest gear or crest the hill...
I had a great Texas Hill Country ride with a Veterans riding group Saturday. They were surprised when I caught up with the fast group, going up a long hill from a stop...
I passed them doing down the other side doing 45.4 MPH! My average speed for this 40 mile ride was 21mph...
https://www.strava.com/activities/3780969090
I have a couple of them considering trying a Vendetta
Blessings,
DocS
DocS
Guru
The top speed was going down hill of course...
I normally average between 21 and 22 mph on my normal routes when I ride alone or with a few faster riders...
When I ride in groups, I tend to stay with the group at their speeds...
Since I really can't offer much help pulling in a pace line, I usually ride outside the paceline (just to the left) and usually stay to the back to stay with stragglers and those dropped.
Like you mentioned, riding with DF riders presents challenges in hilly terrain. I hate to hit my breaks and when we approach a decline, they all just stop pedaling... Even if I don't pedal, I usually pass them going down the hill, so I like to either be ahead of the group when we approach the decline or have them way ahead of me...
I've gotten better at climbing and use my upper body technique that 3lbs mentioned.
Blessings,
DocS
bladderhead
Zen MBB Master
This is a depressing thread for someone who has COPD.
In the 1980s I used to ride to my job in Central London, which took an hour. In places like traffic lights, I used to see people grinding away in a small cog. I always used to be in the biggest cog and whiz past them. Why do people not change gear? I change gear all the time. Maybe that is why I like the Rohloff on the Grasshopper so much.
In my case literally. Momentum-method is not going to work. I have to pace myself. I get dropped. The quicker they go over the hill the less time I have looking at their bum. I drop them on the way down. I have achieved 45mph on the way down. But I have noticed that a lot of DF riders stop pedalling on the way down. Why do they do that?DocS said:
In the 1980s I used to ride to my job in Central London, which took an hour. In places like traffic lights, I used to see people grinding away in a small cog. I always used to be in the biggest cog and whiz past them. Why do people not change gear? I change gear all the time. Maybe that is why I like the Rohloff on the Grasshopper so much.
DocS
Guru
I have Asthma and sometimes have problems with breathing, especially because of where I ride...
There are lots of fields (Corn, Hay, etc.) and farms, blowing dust and pollen all around. I have to travel with my Rescue Inhaler all the time.
You don't really need to blast down the hill. Since you're on a recumbent, you're likely faster than a DF rider even if you're not pedaling. The key is to try to maintain your cadence going up and shift as you need...
My Average cadence is about 85. I can go up a bit, but that's where I'm comfortable.
Blessings,
DocS
paco1961
Zen MBB Master
I easily shift twice as much on the CB as I did on my DFs. Agree entirely w @3bs on the benefit of smooth shifting. I’m a bit of an OCDer when it comes to fiddling with and fine tuning anything mechanical and bike is no exception. Not enough for it to shift correctly but it has to be instant, no hesitation and as close to un-noticeable as physically possible. That, combined with my frequent shifting has resulted in several accusations of me hiding a continuously variable transmission in the frame.
Shift early. Shift often. Get used to passing people . . . Yes . . . Even when climbing!
Shift early. Shift often. Get used to passing people . . . Yes . . . Even when climbing!
bladderhead
Zen MBB Master
Disraeli gears will never work as well as IGH. I cannot put IGH on my Silvio but I have XX1, because at least that frees me from the nightmare of double chainwheels. And I have a friction shifter because I just know that indexing would not work properly. I have hydro because rim brakes are always a bit out of kilter. Used to drive me to distraction.paco1961 said:
3bs
whereabouts unknown
@bladderhead without medication i am at about 28% of normal humans. medication gets me to 85%. most importantly the inhaler does a great job at cutting the strain on my heart, and is probably worth 12 beats a minute at full tilt. i have just learned to manage the deficit, and use a lot of biofeedback to get my riding rhythm. the guys i ride with make the joke that i will get in my trance, and forget anyone is with me.
i studied in london in 85. lived in the west end on the edge of soho. back then i was riding miyatas. i had a 81 710 road and whatever their first gen mountain bike was in 83. i had the mountain bike with me. i snapped the front fork in 86. i still have the 81 710. great fun. i used to jump in behind ambulances and cop cars and rip across town with them clearing the way.
while i was there i built up a dawes that i got from a shop off of covent garden for my roommate. basically took one of their medium grade touring frames undersized it, re-tired, re-geared and changed up handlebars stem seat and post. bike was really nice i guess it would be a gravel bike these days.
i studied in london in 85. lived in the west end on the edge of soho. back then i was riding miyatas. i had a 81 710 road and whatever their first gen mountain bike was in 83. i had the mountain bike with me. i snapped the front fork in 86. i still have the 81 710. great fun. i used to jump in behind ambulances and cop cars and rip across town with them clearing the way.
while i was there i built up a dawes that i got from a shop off of covent garden for my roommate. basically took one of their medium grade touring frames undersized it, re-tired, re-geared and changed up handlebars stem seat and post. bike was really nice i guess it would be a gravel bike these days.
david_kcmo
Active Member
I am in awe. That was great.
