S40 transformed into F40?

Charles.Plager

Charles.Plager

Recumbent Quant
Hi,

I've been saying similar things for years, but with the new Silvio S40, it's just screaming to have this done.

We really need somebody to add a front fairing, tailbox, and a sock.

The P38 is a nice enough recumbent, but most people wouldn't consider it much to write home about.

lightning_p38_lg-1.jpg


But the F40 is (I believe) still the fastest production bike ever made:

lightning_f40_race_lg.jpg


Now imagine the F40 if we took out it's pedestrian heart and gave it the engine of a warrier!

image_01.jpg


Just sayin'.....
 
DavidCH

DavidCH

In thought; expanding the paradigm of traversity
It looks a little awkward.... just imagine doing this on an incline


But it's a record that could be cracked
 
trapdoor2

trapdoor2

Zen MBB Master
Wasn't the pre-cursor to Cruzbike (pre-Tolhurst) a faired, socked MBB? I never can remember his name...Taylor, Traylor? (edit: Tom Traylor) Basically the earliest MBB and the basis for everything we ride today.

Found it. Critical Mass II. 1998 HPV races.

tt419.jpg


I have often thought that this could be done on the Vendetta. Would take a lot of work, of course. Needs some CF guru to jump on it.
 
Charles.Plager

Charles.Plager

Recumbent Quant
Nice!

trapdoor2 said:
I have often thought that this could be done on the Vendetta. Would take a lot of work, of course. Needs some CF guru to jump on it.
Click to expand...

The problem with the laid back bikes is that it will be hard to see over the fairing. That's why I think a more upright bike will work better.
 
defjack

defjack

Zen MBB Master
I saw tom traylor lap a f40 on a. 30 min race at the encino velodrome. He was that fast
 
P

Patrick Bateman

Member
There's a dude on BRO who owns a vendetta and a velo. He'd be a good person to ask. He lives in the Seattle area.

Personally, I'm not convinced it would help on anything but a flat course. If you look at the recumbent records, velomobiles don't appear to be faster *overall.* Just on the flats and downhill.

The vendetta, nocom and M5 chr dominate.
 
John Dorlon

John Dorlon

Guru
Patrick Bateman said:
Personally, I'm not convinced it would help on anything but a flat course. If you look at the recumbent records, velomobiles don't appear to be faster *overall.* Just on the flats and downhill.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. And the Vendetta is a beautiful bike. I'd never want to hide mine under a bunch of faring!
 
DavidCH

DavidCH

In thought; expanding the paradigm of traversity
Yes but a S40 isn't a V20 either... I guess hint I would be particularly attractive under a fairing.
 
Charles.Plager

Charles.Plager

Recumbent Quant
Patrick Bateman said:
There's a dude on BRO who owns a vendetta and a velo. He'd be a good person to ask. He lives in the Seattle area.

Personally, I'm not convinced it would help on anything but a flat course. If you look at the recumbent records, velomobiles don't appear to be faster *overall.* Just on the flats and downhill.

The vendetta, nocom and M5 chr dominate.
Click to expand...

An F40 weighs a LOT less than a velomobile. A lot. a front fairing, a rear frame and a sock aren't going to add a crazy amount of weight.

I think a fully faired S40 would very likely give a V20 a ride for it's money. And the additional weight of the fairing may be offset by the more upright angle for power production for climbing (or even flats).
 
MrSteve

MrSteve

Zen MBB Master
Most people assume that sitting more upright and/or pedaling a lower bottom bracket is best for pedaling uphills.
Maybe for you, but not for me.
My best power and times uphill are made while riding very reclined while pedaling a high bottom bracket.
Same bike, different seat:
-the upright seat is slower uphill, downhill and all-around but is best for sightseeing and indoor workouts;
-the reclined seat is significantly faster uphill (for me) and, of course, is significantly faster everywhere else.

If I were to try to clone the F40 with one of my bikes, it would be my Sofrider V1 with the upright seat.
The fairing must be used with a more upright seating position on a road bike.
The only change to the donor bike I'd make would be to lengthen the wheelbase to compensate for both the added
weight of the fairing(s), the mounting hardware, as well as the taller center of gravity, to help the modified Sofrider/F40s
hill climbing performance.
 
Eric Winn

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
Patrick Bateman said:
There's a dude on BRO who owns a vendetta and a velo. He'd be a good person to ask. He lives in the Seattle area.

Personally, I'm not convinced it would help on anything but a flat course. If you look at the recumbent records, velomobiles don't appear to be faster *overall.* Just on the flats and downhill.

The vendetta, nocom and M5 chr dominate.
Click to expand...

As Dr. Plager states above, most velomobiles are mucho heavier than an F40 which results in a lot more uphill effort.

I own and ride a velomobile and a Vendetta.

My orange Strada velomobile with water bottles and gear is probably around 75+ pounds plus my 200+ pound carcass.

My Vendetta is around 22+ pounds plus the above mentioned carcass weight.

So I'm hauling around 53+ pounds MORE when riding my velo. The nosecone and sock for an F40 is probably just a few pounds which means it gains a similar aero advantage to my velo without the weight penalty.

Here are some comparisons:

Take a look at Harry Lieben's times in his velo where everything is mostly flat. For June 17, 2017 for his 27.2 mile ride he averaged 23.1 mph but that was with about 170 ft of climbing. :p

https://ridewithgps.com/trips/15361684

Here is my Strada velomobiles 28.2 mile ride on June 10, 2017 where I averaged 16.2 mph with 1370 feet of climbing. I think I was riding with my Flevobike roof which is a bit of an aerodynamic parachute. My racecap gives me a few more mph in speed. Also Harry rides all the time and is a much stronger velo rider than I am.

https://ridewithgps.com/trips/15195012

Here is a 22+ mile ride on my Vendetta on August 6, 2016 with a 17.5 mph average and around 1070 feet of climbing.

https://ridewithgps.com/trips/10362249

Here is a 20.1 mile ride on my Vendetta on June 18, 2016 for a one hour time trial on a car race track where I averaged 18.7 mph during the annual Michigan Human Powered Vehicle (HPV) rally with about 520 feet of climbing. I'll be there again this year on June 24-25, 2017 with my Vendetta. I raced both my velo and the V

https://ridewithgps.com/trips/9519834

In 2015 I rode my velomobile in Roll Over Cape Cod (ROCC) with about 12-15 velomobiles - we picked up a few and dropped a few during the course of the weekend. There was a lot of stop and go and bunching and yo-yo-ing during the ride as most of us had never ridden together before and for almost all of us it was the first time riding the route we took.

Outbound: Woods Hole to Truro (southern route) - about 83 miles and 15 mph avg:

https://ridewithgps.com/trips/6021124

Return: Truro to Woods Hole (northern route) - about 92 miles and 14 mph avg:

https://ridewithgps.com/trips/6021124

Edit: Of course riding in cold and foul weather is surprisingly comfortable in my velo. I'm not sure if an F40 comes close but Doug Grosjean can tell you he has owned both.

https://www.facebook.com/douggrosjean


-Eric
 
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Charles.Plager

Charles.Plager

Recumbent Quant
Eric Winn

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
Last time I chatted with Mosquito's Olivier and Nicolas was Jan 1-3, 2016 via email. They had reached the point where they were offering sales but I haven't seen or heard anything since so I don't know how they are doing. During that email I noted the web site didn't seem to have any updates since May 2015 and it still looks the same now as it did then. I'm hopeful they are surviving somehow as I really like the Mosquito too although the sight line forward from the cockpit for the velo body kind of sucks. o_O

-Eric
 
Eric Winn

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
super slim said:
Eric, is the Mosquito a tilting trike?
Click to expand...

Yes it is a tilting trike with a unique design. Wim Schermer has one good photo and a few words about it from Spezi 2014. I think this is the most current design of what I've seen out there:

This video is from France HPV and the most recent one I've seen. The description says VPH 2014 but the video was uploaded Aug 10, 2015:

This one was posted June 22, 2014 and is still one of the earlier designs:

These videos are 5-6 years old and early in the development so the brothers were being cautious in their testing. Plus their tilting design is quite different from others.


-Eric
 
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