Search for a folding donor bike part 2

[Shahmatt]

I'm creating a new thread since the old one was a little haphazard.

My primary need is to be able to fold the bike - not very much, but just enough, to pop it into a lift and then park it in a corner of my workplace. This fold has to be as simple as possible, and must preferably avoid removal of too many parts.

The mid top-tube fold on normal folding bikes can result in a very small final package but I still have to remove the seat. For the time being I am looking at options where I do not have to remove the seat.

Option 1:
The Giatex bike. Photo below:
http://www.giatex.com/Productshow.asp?id=518&mnid=110

[URL='http://www.giatex.com/upload/images/20105622164.jpg[/URL]

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Looks like good quality components with a shrinking top tube and full suspension. I could conveniently shrink the top tube to make the bike smaller for my purpose. There would be no need to remove the Cruzbike seat. If I need to make it even more smaller the rear wheel can be flipped under. I do not know if the stem fold will be possible post conversion.

Giatex tells me this model is out of stock. The non suspended version goes for $850 market price which is a bit steep. Delivery to Singapore (where I live) is also expensive. Another problem is the top tube and hence seat-pan will be slightly out of alignment from the main body, but I think this can be sorted or may even be a non-issue.

Option 2: The Pacific Reach "City":
See website here: http://www.pacific-cycles.com/
(The website does not allow me to link to it directly)

The bike is available in Singapore and I had a chance to see it for real. Funny looking front suspension but I think the Cruzbike conversion will fit - I would appreciate an expert opinion on this.

No shrinking involved here. The rear wheel goes under just like with the Giatex. The rear wheel must however be removed as it falls straight into front wheel position. The rear wheel is quick releasable prior to fold. The bike is also set up to detach the rear suspension by quick release.

My concerns are the fitting of the conversion kit on to the front wheel and onto the stem? The stem size may be proprietary. The specs say this: Stem M.J. Alloy 10degree ext.60mm, barbore:31.8mm

The bike is relatively small so I may be able to store it in the office without folding. The top tube is also a tad higher which may be useful for city commuting in traffic. It also comes with accessories like fenders, rear rack etc. which can be bought for reasonable prices.

Option 3:

The Slidy Bike:

http://www.slidingbike.com/models-20-o6sa.html

Same as the Giatex with shrinking top tube but no front suspension. The bike still has rear "seat post" suspension. I do not know how effective this type of suspension can be - some opinions here would be much appreciated.

The top tube is also wider in plan view which may pose some issues with Cruzbike seat mounting. However top tube is aligned straight.

This bike can only be "shrunk", but there's no way to flip the rear wheel, so the shrunk version is as small as it gets.


Any opinions on the above three options are greatly appreciated.

 

[Ivan]

Another Singaporean! As far

Another Singaporean! As far as I know I am the only Cruzbike owner here so far. For a foldy, I would consider the SpeedOne possibly with dual suspension. It comes from the same Taiwan factory as Silvio framesets, so you know quality is good, and some variants have the same front air shock. Chris in KL in this forum has built and rides this conversion without the front shock. His ride looks good!

http://cruzbike.com/speedone-fs-mini-velo-suspension-folding-frame-set-20406

?Search eBay to order from Taiwan. The one with suspension is less than your Giatex option and since Chris has successfully converted this bike you know for certain it can be done.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/271038973035?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1

I wish CruzBike would do an official folding bike (non Conversion) as they already know this Taiwan factory who produces these folding bikes. Improving seat mount and front triangle would do wonders!

 

[Shahmatt]

Hi Ivan,
Thanks for your

Hi Ivan,

Thanks for your reply. How do you like your Silvio?

Actually I am familiar with Chris's SpeedOne frame and the one you've posted above. Both are suitable alternatives. But as explained in my first post I am attempting to avoid the route of having to fold the frame across the top tube. This is so that I don't have to remove the Cruzbike seat. The above three bike alternatives show some promise.

The Giatex is promising and likely to be the best option - but price and availability are an issue. The Pacific Reach has better geometry for city riding and is likely to be as comfortable as the Giatex, but does not shrink and has a cumbersome fold. The Slidy bike is available (I am checking prices still) - it has a convenient fold but does not shrink as small as the Giatex. It also does not have any real suspension with the exception of the suspension seatpost. Effectiveness of this on the Cruzbike seat is open to debate.

 

[Charles.Plager]

 It isn't obvious to me that

It isn't obvious to me that you'll be able to use the front fork that comes with the IF Reach.

I do like the idea of a folding rear wheel...

 

[chrisblessing]

folding for lift

Shahmatt, it may be that folding at the frame may not be necessary for fitting into the lift. With the front triangle swung all the way around, my bike fits easily in my lift, without further folding or seat removal.

 

[Ivan]

Silvio 2 is loving

Silvio 2 is loving the Singapore scene! Ah I understand better now. Yes, the Giatex rear wheel fold would be good then, similar to my Brompton...which got me thinking, how about converting the Flamingo NX7 (Brompton clone) as you would be able to fold the rear wheel AND at least partially the front. The Flamingo NX7 are harder to find than expensive Bromptons but I do have a friend who had one Flamingo NX7 which he hardly uses and I think he would be interested in selling.

BTW, is folding really necessary? Like Chris said, you can just flip the front. It is also easy to prop the bike vertically on rear wheel and push it into a small HDB lift, just like any DF road bike. I hang my Silvio in my tiny HDB bomb shelter (think store room for non-Singaporeans here). I have my own small office, not cubicle, in which my Silvio sits vertically, rear wheel on floor with handlebars on desk.

Flamingo NX7

 

[Shahmatt]

Charles,The fork will have

Charles,

The fork will have to be flipped around in order to maintain trail. But do you see any obvious problems with the assembly?

Chris,

You may be right. Folding bikes have that advantage of not looking very imposing.

I seem to have become fascinated by the shrinking type of bike. I think it's because when in city traffic I could probably shorten the wheelbase, straighten the seat to a more upright position for easier slow speed navigation. But when I reach open roads I stretch out the wheelbase, laid back that seat and make like a rocket. A sort of morphing recumbent you know.

Whatever bike I eventually end up with I think the process of going through many many bikes of various folding types has been really education.

Ivan,

The Flamingo NX7 looks like an interesting bike. It seems to tick all of the boxes I need. Please inform your friend that I would be interested in having a look if he wants to sell.

I just realized that you are a member of Laid Back Riders. If you don't mind I will buzz you on FB. Cheers and thanks!

 

[Jerrye]

Suspension fork issue, possibly?

I can't fully tell from the pics, but the first thing that came to my mind was whether or not the flexing of the suspension changes the length of the chainline when using the conversion kit. I guess if it does then you'll need to figure out if the derailleur takes up that slack sufficiently or if you'll have to do that some other way.

 

[Shahmatt]

Jerrye,
From what I

Jerrye,

From what I understand the movement from suspension should cause the Cruzbike triangle to rotate about the crank-wheel axis. So there should not be any significant impact on the drivetrain length. Even if there's a problem maybe a tensioner can sort it out. There seem to also have been many front suspension conversions including Charles's "Cruzigami Mantis "(A fabulous name really). I don't think there's a problem.

See here:
http://recumbentquant.blogspot.sg/2013/03/introducing-cruzigami-mantis.html

On the Flamingo NX7,

I've found out that the dropout spacings are 75mm in front and 135mm at the rear. Whilst this looks fine for moving the front wheel to the rear would there be any issue installing the Cruzbike chainstay to such a narrow front fork?

 

[Jerrye]

Just ignore me...

I forgot that the fork is rotated 180 degrees to install the conversion kit. This will place the new adapter and its clamps on the same section of the suspended area of the fork. I was concerned that there may be cross mounting of the adapter in the original dropouts while the clamps would be on a different part of the suspension. Conventional suspensions do not present this possible issue as they have only one fork section coming out of the headtube. Rotating this one puts everything on the same fork section, so it's a non issue.

Like I said, just do what everyone else does and ignore me...

Hope your conversion comes together soon!

 

[Shahmatt]

The Flamingo looks like a

Jerrye,

Thanks. I hope so too.

 

[Shahmatt]

Can the conversion kit be

Can the conversion kit be used on forks of spacing less than 100mm?

The Flamingo donor bike has a 75mm dropout spacing. Is there a workaround?

 

[jimbo3b]

The Conversion Kit is Adaptable

The conversion kit has brackets that modify a 100 mm front wheel spacing to a 135 mm rear wheel. This is with the brackets placed on the inside of the fork.

The kit is somewhat adaptable and may work for you depending on the spacing change needed. You might be able to place the brackets on the outside of the forks. Keep in mind that the bolts that replace the original wheel axle will hold the brackets securely, but that it is necessary for the upper arms of the brackets to rest securely on the forks (held in place with hose clamps) in order to keep the bracket from spinning around the dropouts/bolts when weight is applied to the bike.

From the review I read, the rear hub on the Flamingo is a standard rear Nexus hub, and likely has a 135 mm spacing. Trying to adapt from 75 mm out to 135 mm seems to be stretching the kit capabilities too far. I'm worried you'll have to put the brackets in a vice and void the warranty to get a good fit.

 

[Jerrye]

Here I go again...

I wonder if one wants to mount the brackets outside of the fork if the upper arms can be made to work by using the left bracket on the right and vice versa. If the upper arm tabs are offset from the centerline of the bracket itself, this may work? I dunno...

 

[Shahmatt]

Jim,
I suspected as much.

Jim,

I suspected as much. Thanks for confirming.

 

[Ivan]

You are not adapting 75mm to

You are not adapting 75mm to 135mm but a 75mm fork to a 100mm fork design, thus adapting 12.5mm on either side. This may be enough to cause problems with the bracket needing to brace against the fork as Jim said. Looking at the bracket design in the assembly instructions, swapping left/right would not help. However it would appear that a small rotation about the chainstay axis would be sufficient to rotate the bracket a tiny amount thus aligning the bracket tabs sufficiently to the narrower flamingo fork. Really only way to know for sure is to try.

While I don't have a conversion kit (I am Silvio 2 rider) I am very familiar with the Brompton/Flamingo fold and design having owned and modified several models. This has the capability of maintaining it's folding capability even after conversion and thus be a very compact recumbent after fold.

Shahmatt, if you like, you could order the conversion kit as you need this for whatever bike you choose anyway. My friend would most likely be happy for me to attempt the conversion together with you without paying for his Flamingo (no obligation to buy his Flamingo). If it doesn't work then you still have the kit for a different bike. If it does work then a Flamingo Cruzbike will be very unique with an excellent fold and 7 speed internal hub!! Of course, you should agree on "if it works" price with him first!

 

[Shahmatt]

Hi Ivan,I have sketched the

Hi Ivan,

I have sketched the following plan views of the bracket based on the following images from the Cruzbike site:

Part no, 7 looks as though it's from the bracket but it's actually a simple rectangular rubber pad

Here are the sketches - if viewed from above (in plan). First the ideal situation where a 100mm dropout spacing donor bike is converted. The unknowns are labeled in blue. The 135mm and 100mm widths are to scale.

Now the same scheme with Flamingo bike:

As you can see there are two possible issues. First is the location of the upper arms. They now rest out of alignment of the fork. Maybe this can be worked around by somehow thickening the donor fork at the upper arms location by say, wrapping tape around the fork at that localized area in order to provide the necessary support.

There is also a likelihood that the wheel spokes could interfere with the donor bike fork. This issue is not there if the Cruzbike bracket fell to the inside of the dropout as they are supposed to - I bet there's plenty of clearance. But maybe not if the forks are as narrow as above.

If anyone can help with the blue text - the unknowns, I would be grateful. Or also if there are any obvious problems with my sketches.

I agree that the Flamingo could present a truly unique solution and I was genuinely excited about the possibilities. I will in fact buy the kit first as you suggest and maybe we can proceed to try fitting on your friend's bike. I am traveling this month and will be back in January. I will make my purchase after returning.

 

[John Tolhurst]

You could bend the upper arms

You could bend the upper arms inwards to re-align with the fork. It is mild steel. Repaint as needed.

 

[Shahmatt]

John,Thanks. I didn't think

John,

Thanks. I didn't think that was easy to do. So perhaps one issue can be solved. Now all that remains is to check for the wheel spokes clearance.

Can you also tell me what the seat pan length and breadth are? I can't seem to find the seat dimensions published anywhere. It would be useful in confirming this donor.

 

[John Tolhurst]

Seat pan length about 280,

Seat pan length about 280, width about 295mm.