Searching out the limits on the V20.

[HeyMikey]

I have about 200 miles total on the bike so far and made a minor adjustment to the angle of the handlebars that made a huge difference in feel, control, and far less “death” grip that’s resulted in overall comfort and less fatigue. All my rides to date (cov-19) have been solo and this morning was no different. Set my sights on trying for 50 miles with a mix of road and paved trail. Weather was good with some wind 8-10 mph out of the south-southwest. So, in this one ride alone I found:

Leaning forward to negotiate a sweeping left at speed and dealing with damn tree roots that make paved trails into rumble strips will cause the rear tire to become airborne just enough to loosen one’s sphincter muscles.....

Topped out at 42 mph on a sweeping one mile downhill with very solid feel and control as long as I didn’t attempt to pedal. Sphincter muscles not involved this time.

Exiting roadway and gearing down for my steepest ascent of around 200 ft in length to reach the trail I’m going to use to get home on. I’ve pulled myself completely into the handlebars at this point and not having an issue powering up the hill until I feel the dreaded slippage that I’ve heard so much about from fellow members. I feel no choice but to continue laying down the power since trying to pop my shoes off the pedals would no doubt cause me to go over into a slow-mo heap. I somehow chirped my way to the top and entered the trail with my head and heart pounding with sphincter muscles tightened fairly well!

So overall I learned some more things about this amazing machine. The do’s, the don’ts, and room for improvement on my riding skills. Best of all, knowing that I don’t have to invest in Depends just yet......

 

[Pollock]

It will get easier. I still don’t pedal on those downhills. Then you have @RojoRacing who powers through every turn. Just find the way you like to ride and work towards mastering that.

 

[paco1961]

I’m 2 years in, S40 was my first bent. Bought a V a month ago and have about 500 miles on it. Never near 42mph. Don’t think there’s enough sphincter fitness in the world for that. I can actually pedal all out at 35mph and feel perfectly stable (as long as my lungs hold out) but 30mph down hill is terrifying. I continue to pick up a mph here and there on descents but I think I’ll expire of old age before I hit 42 downhill.

Have fun!

 

[RojoRacing]

Well I wouldn't say I power through every turn, but I do find it very thrilling when I do work up the courage to do so in a corner I've never been able to before.

The thing about pedaling DH or through corners is that it's only really stable once your pedal stroke reaches a perfect rhythm and each time you go from not pedaling to pedaling there will always be a brief moment before you reach the rhythm. The more masterful you become at riding a cruzbike the shorter that moment will become but you'll never be able to completely eliminate it. Now if you never stop pedaling and just ease into a turn it will bring about other hurdles to master but those are more difficult to explain and not something for most riders to need to think about.

I know cruzbike and Maria especially promote the idea of leaning forward into your bars when climbing to maximize traction and use of your upper body but I do it differently. I find the leaning forward requires more effort and muscle to retain stability then what you gain in extra weight over the front wheel. When climbing steep roads you'll more greatly benefit from firmly planting your shoulders into the seat and focusing on greater and smoother power into the pedals. The grade of the road you can climb without slipping the front tire is directly correlated with how strong of a rider you are. I can climb stuff many others can't because I can maintain a smooth 400 watts of power longer than most people but everyone finds their limit in power and technique but both can be improved with practice.

 

[paco1961]

Ditto on the need for smooth cadence when climbing. We have a local century that has a beast of a hill at mile 82. I can only avoid slippage about half the time when we ride it semi race style. At 90% gassed it’s hard to keep a smooth cadence. When I hit it 20 miles into a conversation paced ride, I sink back into the seat and power on up with little problem

 

[HeyMikey]

Has anybody done an actual weight distribution calculation on the V20 when the rider is fully laid out on the seat? Front/back is it 50/50, 55/45, 60/40?

 

[ratz]

I know cruzbike and Maria especially promote the idea of leaning forward into your bars when climbing to maximize traction and use of your upper body but I do it differently. I find the leaning forward requires more effort and muscle to retain stability then what you gain in extra weight over the front wheel. When climbing steep roads you'll more greatly benefit from firmly planting your shoulders into the seat and focusing on greater and smoother power into the pedals. The grade of the road you can climb without slipping the front tire is directly correlated with how strong of a rider you are. I can climb stuff many others can't because I can maintain a smooth 400 watts of power longer than most people but everyone finds their limit in power and technique but both can be improved with practice.

Two points to add to that: 1 The Thor seat makes that more true I have found, 2 dead weight is good weight; the more relaxed and limp you can make your body from weight to shoulder the more down force you can get; tense will put more weight at your head and limp puts more weight in your anchor. When I did the river valley around here I'd first try to get as much weight into my butt as I could by relaxing; then wind up the legs smoothly and lastly get the shoulder and arms into a nice place to control the oh shit oh shit oh shit as the bike raced up over 50mph.

 

[benphyr]

I can climb stuff many others can't because I can maintain a smooth 400 watts of power longer than most people but everyone finds their limit in power and technique but both can be improved with practice.

400w smooth power! Wowie!

Gut instinct uphill physicist says:

More power = more speed into the hill = farther into the hill before you are grinding

More power = more speed on the hill = less time spent on the hill.

So the 400w person needs a longer hill than the 200w person in order to compare time spent fighting the hill.

Slow the faster rider by increasing the grade of the hill profile. Now at the same speed the stronger rider is going to spin sooner because they are at a steeper grade and have more power. But that is not what happens in real life or even zwift - the hill doesn’t change - the rider has to adjust to the hill.

So the stronger rider expends less of their reserves, and reaches the top more rested only to fly ahead at the crest.

Options for the weaker rider - get stronger and ride smarter, cheat with equipment (be a weight weanie). Unless you are a pro there is probably some improvement possible and small instant gains might be had by more race oriented lighter more efficient equipment.

But there really is no substitute for improving your own strength, endurance, technique, and smarts. They can all be brought to any situation.

 

[bladderhead]

damn tree roots that make paved trails into rumble strips

Do you like bending your wheels?

I pedal smoothly these days, so wheel-spin is rare. I handle the bike better these days, so I can cope with it when it happens. It will be like this for you if you ride it enough.

I think I am like @paco1961. If my poor damaged lungs do not stop me pedalling, my sphincter does. I got 40mph once. The bike feels rock solid, but I worry about sliding or hitting a hole in the road. Will it ever happen to Jason? When he jumps out of an aeroplane he does not have a parachute but an upside-down jetpack.

Options for the weaker rider - get stronger and ride smarter, cheat with equipment (be a weight weanie)

Ride smarter - that is all I can manage. Weight weenie? Talk to the belly, the legs ain't listening.

 

[HeyMikey]

400w smooth power! Wowie!

Gut instinct uphill physicist says:

More power = more speed into the hill = farther into the hill before you are grinding

More power = more speed on the hill = less time spent on the hill.

So the 400w person needs a longer hill than the 200w person in order to compare time spent fighting the hill.

Slow the faster rider by increasing the grade of the hill profile. Now at the same speed the stronger rider is going to spin sooner because they are at a steeper grade and have more power. But that is not what happens in real life or even zwift - the hill doesn’t change - the rider has to adjust to the hill.

So the stronger rider expends less of their reserves, and reaches the top more rested only to fly ahead at the crest.

Options for the weaker rider - get stronger and ride smarter, cheat with equipment (be a weight weanie). Unless you are a pro there is probably some improvement possible and small instant gains might be had by more race oriented lighter more efficient equipment.

But there really is no substitute for improving your own strength, endurance, technique, and smarts. They can all be brought to any situation.

In the simplest terms, I will never attempt to ride up this section of road ever again. I can easily ride another mile and gain access to this trail from somebody’s flat driveway. I now have a visual that I can work with when entering an ascent as to whether it’s a go or a no-go. Other variables will always present themselves (gravel, sand, damp pavement) that one will have to deal with quickly. I just want to avoid crashing and scratching my new ride! (sez the guy who hit 42 mph going downhill!)

Do you like bending your wheels?

I pedal smoothly these days, so wheel-spin is rare. I handle the bike better these days, so I can cope with it when it happens. It will be like this for you if you ride it enough.

I think I am like @paco1961. If my poor damaged lungs do not stop me pedalling, my sphincter does. I got 40mph once. The bike feels rock solid, but I worry about sliding or hitting a hole in the road. Will it ever happen to Jason? When he jumps out of an aeroplane he does not have a parachute but an upside-down jetpack.

Ride smarter - that is all I can manage. Weight weenie? Talk to the belly, the legs ain't listening.

Definitely don’t want to bend wheels at this time. That would force me to purchase some of those fancy carbon wheels that I see some of you hot-rodders using,
We all understand that riding these rigs have far better physics built in when/if we find ourselves in a situation of losing control. Road rash will likely occur, but cranium damage is diminished. I can think of a couple scenarios that may have a bad outcome: flipping over at speed or not seeing the garbage truck backing out of the alley......

 

[chicorider]

Two particular days on my V stand out to me with this conversation: the day a dude opened his car door right as I was on him, and I managed a hard swerve around him using both hands and feet to steer, was the day I realized that somewhere along the way handling the bike had become instinctual. I was at full cruising speed, about 23mph, with no time to brake. I thought for sure I was toast, but before I even knew what was happening I was around him, shouting "whoo-hooo!" Now I ride a little further out from the door zone when I can. The second day was when I returned home from a ride and found that I had clocked 59.5mph on a descent and felt irritated because it wasn't 60.

Which is to say, I all becomes easier and easier as the miles go by.

 

[HeyMikey]

Two particular days on my V stand out to me with this conversation: the day a dude opened his car door right as I was on him, and I managed a hard swerve around him using both hands and feet to steer, was the day I realized that somewhere along the way handling the bike had become instinctual. I was at full cruising speed, about 23mph, with no time to brake. I thought for sure I was toast, but before I even knew what was happening I was around him, shouting "whoo-hooo!" Now I ride a little further out from the door zone when I can. The second day was when I returned home from a ride and found that I had clocked 59.5mph on a descent and felt irritated because it wasn't 60.

Which is to say, I all becomes easier and easier as the miles go by.

59.5 is creepy fast!

 

[super slim]

Has anybody done an actual weight distribution calculation on the V20 when the rider is fully laid out on the seat? Front/back is it 50/50, 55/45, 60/40?

All Silvios/Vendetta are 50/50, or 51/49 F/R with any weight rider with a normal body torso height!

 

[bladderhead]

That is definitely sphincter speed. Still, it would have taught that bloke a lesson. You open your door - bang! No door.

 

[Robert Holler]

The thing about pedaling DH or through corners is that it's only really stable once your pedal stroke reaches a perfect rhythm and each time you go from not pedaling to pedaling there will always be a brief moment before you reach the rhythm. The more masterful you become at riding a cruzbike the shorter that moment will become but you'll never be able to completely eliminate it. Now if you never stop pedaling and just ease into a turn it will bring about other hurdles to master but those are more difficult to explain and not something for most riders to need to think about.

I know cruzbike and Maria especially promote the idea of leaning forward into your bars when climbing to maximize traction and use of your upper body but I do it differently. I find the leaning forward requires more effort and muscle to retain stability then what you gain in extra weight over the front wheel. When climbing steep roads you'll more greatly benefit from firmly planting your shoulders into the seat and focusing on greater and smoother power into the pedals. The grade of the road you can climb without slipping the front tire is directly correlated with how strong of a rider you are. I can climb stuff many others can't because I can maintain a smooth 400 watts of power longer than most people but everyone finds their limit in power and technique but both can be improved with practice.

100% accurate. Well said.

 

[Pollock]

Just for the fun of it, I looked up my fastest outdoors speed on the S40. Apparently I hit 70.6km (43.87mph) downhill in last years Raven Rock Ramble. I remember not pedaling on purpose for fear of causing any wobbles. The bike tracked really well though as long as I didn’t screw it up!

And yes, there was some muscle tensing, just not the upper body.

 

[Seth Cooper]

my fastest garmin recorded speed is 48.5 mph (77kph), and that a bit of a pucker time for me. I just felt the bike was not stable enough, and maybe that was the long chainstay talking, or maybe I just need more practice.

I don't know if i will ever have enough opportunities to get comfortable there though, as in my local hills don't have the grade or length to get much past 40mph, so i'd have to travel to other parts of the state with some larger descents.

 

[HeyMikey]

my fastest garmin recorded speed is 48.5 mph (77kph), and that a bit of a pucker time for me. I just felt the bike was not stable enough, and maybe that was the long chainstay talking, or maybe I just need more practice.

I don't know if i will ever have enough opportunities to get comfortable there though, as in my local hills don't have the grade or length to get much past 40mph, so i'd have to travel to other parts of the state with some larger descents.

In the county (Washington, MN) I live in, there's ample hills to test ones nerves on. There are a few that if it weren't for side traffic potentially getting involved in your craziness, one could pedal real hard at the start of said hill, stop pedaling, and just lay low for the thrill of trying to break your last record.

 

[3bs]

i am pretty sure i have never hit 40 on the v. i think i got pretty close last year in oregon, but the traffic was so bad and the run off so fatal, i actually parked the bike that day after a trailer missed me by inches.

i would really like to put my bike on a truing jig to see if it is perfectly true. once i get up into the 30's it just seems a little not right, but i am not smooth at anything.
@Robert Holler do you have a such a jig?

 

[RojoRacing]

For those of you search out the upper limits of speed on your V20, I suggest looking into the benefits of a proper diet