John Tolhurst
Zen MBB Master
Using your full body strength
Using your full body strength is a development of the basic riding skills.
Using your full body strength is a development of the basic riding skills.
Silvio 2.0 Build & Maiden Voyage
- Thread starter Lavs
- Start date
ak-tux
Zen MBB Master
Case of too much too soon perhaps?
Lavs, my humble opinion is that your body has not adapted to the new position and the push-pull power input technique required by this format of a recumbent.
Start with gentle inclines less than 3% . Practice hill starts, figure eights and sprinting. Incorporate them in your sessions. When you do the sprints you should feel your heart rate go up. You should feel some effort from your arms during the sprints.
Once comfortable, try toe-clips or cleats. They improve the handling significantly.
Personally, it took me several days, I think it was a month or so, of practice before I could generate enough power to climb a ~7% grade. At that point I had good balance. Now I can climb ~12% grade approx 30 meters long.
Lavs, my humble opinion is that your body has not adapted to the new position and the push-pull power input technique required by this format of a recumbent.
Start with gentle inclines less than 3% . Practice hill starts, figure eights and sprinting. Incorporate them in your sessions. When you do the sprints you should feel your heart rate go up. You should feel some effort from your arms during the sprints.
Once comfortable, try toe-clips or cleats. They improve the handling significantly.
Personally, it took me several days, I think it was a month or so, of practice before I could generate enough power to climb a ~7% grade. At that point I had good balance. Now I can climb ~12% grade approx 30 meters long.
give it some miles - the
lavs, give it some miles - the first time i rode a recumbent (giro 24) i was as weak as a baby, despite being fairly strong on a df. it took a good 1000 miles for my legs to adapt to the recumbent which seemed to be much more dependent on sheer upper leg strength (i too rarely ride out of the saddle) - my quads and hamstrings grew much larger compared to just riding the df.
my initial thoughts on the silvio 2.0 is that such an extreme departure from df level of strength is not required, as you are able to engage your core muscles and are not solely reliant on your legs.
do you feel you are working with the bike? - i found that initially i was fighting the bike trying to maintain balance, and my speed suffered.
also imho you really need to be clipped (with a cleated system not toe clips) into the pedals on a recumbent, otherwise your body is unnecessarily tense just keeping your feet on the pedals, and speed suffers.
ak-tux, do you experience any wheel spin on 12% slopes? hopefully it is just down to my underdeveloped spin on the mbb design, but i find wheel spin is a limiting factor on any thing above 10%, even with a grippy front tyre (open corsa).
lavs, give it some miles - the first time i rode a recumbent (giro 24) i was as weak as a baby, despite being fairly strong on a df. it took a good 1000 miles for my legs to adapt to the recumbent which seemed to be much more dependent on sheer upper leg strength (i too rarely ride out of the saddle) - my quads and hamstrings grew much larger compared to just riding the df.
my initial thoughts on the silvio 2.0 is that such an extreme departure from df level of strength is not required, as you are able to engage your core muscles and are not solely reliant on your legs.
do you feel you are working with the bike? - i found that initially i was fighting the bike trying to maintain balance, and my speed suffered.
also imho you really need to be clipped (with a cleated system not toe clips) into the pedals on a recumbent, otherwise your body is unnecessarily tense just keeping your feet on the pedals, and speed suffers.
ak-tux, do you experience any wheel spin on 12% slopes? hopefully it is just down to my underdeveloped spin on the mbb design, but i find wheel spin is a limiting factor on any thing above 10%, even with a grippy front tyre (open corsa).
ak-tux
Zen MBB Master
@?iow, The 12% grade I have
@iow, The ~12% max grade(my estimate ... may be slightly inaccurate) I have near my house is very short. It starts with a speed bump, then what seems like 7-8% or so and rises sharply for about few meters or so then back to 7% and then levels out. If I gather momentum as I approach it, I do not experience any wheel slip.
However, I noted the following
. I have never fallen on this bike yet. I hope it stays that way.
@iow, The ~12% max grade(my estimate ... may be slightly inaccurate) I have near my house is very short. It starts with a speed bump, then what seems like 7-8% or so and rises sharply for about few meters or so then back to 7% and then levels out. If I gather momentum as I approach it, I do not experience any wheel slip.
However, I noted the following
- If for some reason I slow down at the steepest section and then attempt to accelerate, I experience some minor wheel slip.
- If I use the bridging technique, strangely enough, the slip is reduced.
- If my front tire pressure is less than the max pressure, the slippage is also reduced. The opposite occurs if the front tire is highly inflated.
- Smooth pedal stroke precluded by sufficient momentum reduces the wheel slip.
Charles.Plager
Recumbent Quant
do you experience any wheel
I've gone up (short) hills that my Garmin claims are 19%. Jim Parker has done 23% or 24% on his Quest.
Cheers,
Charles
I've gone up (short) hills that my Garmin claims are 19%. Jim Parker has done 23% or 24% on his Quest.
- I think the advice Ak-tux gives is right on the money.
- For very steep hills, I sit upright moving more of my weight forward.
- Starting on steep hills, I find it very easy to have wheel spin. I'm better now, but still not good at this.
- Spinning instead of mashing makes a difference.
- Good tires make a difference (and if the surface of the road isn't perfect, lowering the pressure in the tires helps too).
- The biggest thing is that you need to get use to a little wheel spin. When it first happened to me, I'd freak out and stop. Keeping smooth pedaling makes it easier to recover.
- As usual Ak-tux is giving good advice here, too.
- The more experience you have with the Silvio, the better you'll be. Acclimation is in hundreds of miles, so keep on keeping on.
- You can't stand on the Silvio, so you may need your low gears to be lower.
- Clipping in helps both with power delivery and with control. I do highly recommend them (although I wish I could say I'd never fallen
).
Cheers,
Charles
Lavs
Member
Newbee - Not discouraged
Thanks all, good stuff !!!
I'm really not too discouraged, a bit surprised and even embarrassed, but not discouraged. I know I only have ~6 hours in on the Silvio (over 5days), as well as being in a generally pathetically unfit state (for me),...I'm sure I'm fighting the bike too, which isn't helping. However, I'm an optimistic person.
I do know that when I progress from sneakers on pedals to my clipped in carbon Rocket7's I will be more efficient. I can feel that I can't pedal circles, and I really want to pull back ("up") but obviously can't when not clipped in. I'm still hesitant to transition.
I've always paid attention to gearing. I have an arsenal of cassettes, chain rings, and cranks, that I change based on course profiles. With the Silvio, I actually went with a triple because I wanted the ability to have a chain ring smaller than the 33T offered on my compact cranks. On my DF bikes I maintained 90+ rpms on general terrain,... and 80+ on our local 10 mile (<hour, 5-10%) mountain TT,...
When I progress to actual intervals and such (training) from just white knuckle balance/vector checking, I will improve too.
yup acclimation, proficiency, fitness required. Just sharing my experiences for; feedback, posterity (those also learning this new body language of Cruzbike-ing), and to vent a bit
Thanks, Lavs
Thanks all, good stuff !!!
I'm really not too discouraged, a bit surprised and even embarrassed, but not discouraged. I know I only have ~6 hours in on the Silvio (over 5days), as well as being in a generally pathetically unfit state (for me),...I'm sure I'm fighting the bike too, which isn't helping. However, I'm an optimistic person.
I do know that when I progress from sneakers on pedals to my clipped in carbon Rocket7's I will be more efficient. I can feel that I can't pedal circles, and I really want to pull back ("up") but obviously can't when not clipped in. I'm still hesitant to transition.
I've always paid attention to gearing. I have an arsenal of cassettes, chain rings, and cranks, that I change based on course profiles. With the Silvio, I actually went with a triple because I wanted the ability to have a chain ring smaller than the 33T offered on my compact cranks. On my DF bikes I maintained 90+ rpms on general terrain,... and 80+ on our local 10 mile (<hour, 5-10%) mountain TT,...
When I progress to actual intervals and such (training) from just white knuckle balance/vector checking, I will improve too.
yup acclimation, proficiency, fitness required. Just sharing my experiences for; feedback, posterity (those also learning this new body language of Cruzbike-ing), and to vent a bit
Thanks, Lavs
John Dorlon
Guru
Don't be afraid to clip in.
I didn't clip in for a month after getting my Silvio. When I finally did, it was a lot easier than I thought it was going to be, and I wished I had clipped in sooner!
I think being clipped in will really help you on hills. Make the clips loose if you want so you can pull your feet out in a hurry if needed.
I didn't clip in for a month after getting my Silvio. When I finally did, it was a lot easier than I thought it was going to be, and I wished I had clipped in sooner!
I think being clipped in will really help you on hills. Make the clips loose if you want so you can pull your feet out in a hurry if needed.
marshall2389
Guru
Before going to clipless I
Before going to clipless I recommend setting up an obstacle course in a parking lot or find narrow windy paths to practice your slow speed maneuvering. Do these maneuvers without taking your sneakers off the pedals. If you can handle yourself at very low speeds (around 3mph) then you're ready for clipless.
Power production will come in time. Keep pushing yourself but be patient. Imagine all the hours, months, and miles that went into developing every aspect of your DF pedal stroke.
Before going to clipless I recommend setting up an obstacle course in a parking lot or find narrow windy paths to practice your slow speed maneuvering. Do these maneuvers without taking your sneakers off the pedals. If you can handle yourself at very low speeds (around 3mph) then you're ready for clipless.
Power production will come in time. Keep pushing yourself but be patient. Imagine all the hours, months, and miles that went into developing every aspect of your DF pedal stroke.
