Silvio 2.0 Build Questions
- Thread starter Ivan
- Start date
John Tolhurst
Zen MBB Master
Get the bolts started and the
Get the bolts started and the larger size will usually pull through.
Get the bolts started and the larger size will usually pull through.
Doug Burton
Zen MBB Master
Fitting the ring clamps
As Eric notes, the Silvio 2.0 requires an external bearing bottom bracket. Shimano Ultegra, 105, and SRAM Rival, Force and Red have been tested. I cannot recommend Campagnolo as the bottom bracket bearing shells vary in external configuration. A flat-sided 44mm diameter bearing shell is required.
Position the ring clamp assembly concentric with the BB shell, then insert the bearing shell with the center tube attached, then insert the other shell on the other side. Start threading the bearing shells by hand until both have engaged the BB shell threads. Continue to thread them by hand as far as you can. When everything is seated, use an external bearing BB wrench to tighten the bearings. Since the ring clamps are not yet tightened, you can move the ring clamp assembly from side to side to help you get a good wrench grip on the bearing shells.
Tightening the ring clamp assembly is one of the last operations you'll do. make sure that you have your x-seam distance set before you final-tighten the ring clamps, as it is imperative that the chainstay not be bowed in either the up or down direction when you start riding. Not doing this can lead to failure (buckling) of the front carboyoke chainstay when you hit a significant bump. I cannot emphasize this enough.
Assembly instructions will be available soon. Prior to that, use the Vendetta instructions for installing the bottom bracket, the Silvio 1.5 instructions for assembling the rest of the front triangle, and check back here for help with the rear suspension, or with any questions/issues you run into. You can also contact John or I directly with with contact function here at the website. We will work to insure your success.
Best,
Doug
As Eric notes, the Silvio 2.0 requires an external bearing bottom bracket. Shimano Ultegra, 105, and SRAM Rival, Force and Red have been tested. I cannot recommend Campagnolo as the bottom bracket bearing shells vary in external configuration. A flat-sided 44mm diameter bearing shell is required.
Position the ring clamp assembly concentric with the BB shell, then insert the bearing shell with the center tube attached, then insert the other shell on the other side. Start threading the bearing shells by hand until both have engaged the BB shell threads. Continue to thread them by hand as far as you can. When everything is seated, use an external bearing BB wrench to tighten the bearings. Since the ring clamps are not yet tightened, you can move the ring clamp assembly from side to side to help you get a good wrench grip on the bearing shells.
Tightening the ring clamp assembly is one of the last operations you'll do. make sure that you have your x-seam distance set before you final-tighten the ring clamps, as it is imperative that the chainstay not be bowed in either the up or down direction when you start riding. Not doing this can lead to failure (buckling) of the front carboyoke chainstay when you hit a significant bump. I cannot emphasize this enough.
Assembly instructions will be available soon. Prior to that, use the Vendetta instructions for installing the bottom bracket, the Silvio 1.5 instructions for assembling the rest of the front triangle, and check back here for help with the rear suspension, or with any questions/issues you run into. You can also contact John or I directly with with contact function here at the website. We will work to insure your success.
Best,
Doug
Jeremy S
Dude
Doug, I'm not sure how to
Doug, I'm not sure how to orient the rear elastomer spring. It has a slightly narrower end that mates perfectly with the "rear fork landing pad" plastic piece. I would therefore expect to insert the other, wider end into the frame port, but it won't fit. If I flip it around then the narrow end of the elastomer does fit into the frame port, and the wider end of the elastomer kind of/sort of will mate with the "rear fork landing pad," but not as well. Which way should it go?
Doug, I'm not sure how to orient the rear elastomer spring. It has a slightly narrower end that mates perfectly with the "rear fork landing pad" plastic piece. I would therefore expect to insert the other, wider end into the frame port, but it won't fit. If I flip it around then the narrow end of the elastomer does fit into the frame port, and the wider end of the elastomer kind of/sort of will mate with the "rear fork landing pad," but not as well. Which way should it go?
Ivan
Guru
(No subject)
Jeremy, here is the orientation of the elastomer. It is a tight fit. You have to push and twist to it in. This picture shows the close-up after I have bolted the carbon stays to the main frame. When I insert it, I also covered the metal piece with a sock so as not to scratch the frame as it goes very close to the frame. After the stays are bolted, use some muscle to position it properly over the elastomer. When that is done, then you can bend screw in the bolts.
.jpg)
.jpg)
Jeremy, here is the orientation of the elastomer. It is a tight fit. You have to push and twist to it in. This picture shows the close-up after I have bolted the carbon stays to the main frame. When I insert it, I also covered the metal piece with a sock so as not to scratch the frame as it goes very close to the frame. After the stays are bolted, use some muscle to position it properly over the elastomer. When that is done, then you can bend screw in the bolts.
Jeremy S
Dude
Thanks Ivan, I was reluctant
Thanks Ivan, I was reluctant to jam anything together that I might not be able to get apart again. I have tried pushing and twisting. Will try again.
Won't jamming part of the spring into a tight, threaded hole interfere with the spring's ability to expand and contract?
Thanks Ivan, I was reluctant to jam anything together that I might not be able to get apart again. I have tried pushing and twisting. Will try again.
Won't jamming part of the spring into a tight, threaded hole interfere with the spring's ability to expand and contract?
Jeremy, mine worked out the
Jeremy, mine worked out the same as Ivan's---it takes a little muscle to get the rear seat stay, elastomer and other related pieces in place and bolted. Once I did this, it ends up working out. Ultimately, I think the suspension link flexes a bit once installed so that the pieces being bolted to the back of the seat frame line up. Take a look at Ivan's picture in his second post above, and you will see that his suspension link is flexed slightly as well.
For the elastomer (ie, the rubber spring), I twisted that like a screw into the threaded hole. It took a fair amount of effort to get it started, but once I did it started going in. I twisted it as far back as I could, but there is still a good portion of the spring sticking out which can absorb impact.
Jeremy, mine worked out the same as Ivan's---it takes a little muscle to get the rear seat stay, elastomer and other related pieces in place and bolted. Once I did this, it ends up working out. Ultimately, I think the suspension link flexes a bit once installed so that the pieces being bolted to the back of the seat frame line up. Take a look at Ivan's picture in his second post above, and you will see that his suspension link is flexed slightly as well.
For the elastomer (ie, the rubber spring), I twisted that like a screw into the threaded hole. It took a fair amount of effort to get it started, but once I did it started going in. I twisted it as far back as I could, but there is still a good portion of the spring sticking out which can absorb impact.
Doug Burton
Zen MBB Master
Windex...
... makes a great temporary lubricant for installing tight rubber parts (like handlebar grips, for example, or in this case, the elastomer). It lubricates long enough to install the part, and then evaporates.
... makes a great temporary lubricant for installing tight rubber parts (like handlebar grips, for example, or in this case, the elastomer). It lubricates long enough to install the part, and then evaporates.
Lavs
Member
Silvio 2.0 Rear Derailleur Install ?
My build is going well, at an uncharacteristically leisurely pace. Today, I put on the wheels and rough attached most of the components, then put it on the trainer and climbed aboard to rough-in/monkey with the bars and leg reach, etc.
When I attempted to install the Shimano Ultegra "rear" derailleur (triple) I found that its "B tension adjustment screw" and its housing/bracket overlapped with the Cruzbike dropout tab, i.e. it would not thread in/install. Picture with the 2<sup>nd</sup> dropout tab below.
Am I missing something obvious or should I machine down the Cruzbike dropout?
Any thoughts?
Also,
1) Any images of the "front" derailleur cable routing?
2) What psi for the front shock?,... I think a read to start at ~150psi in the Silvio 1.5 PDF.
3) It looks like I will need to add a few washers to the front brakes in order to get the pads to clear the front fork.
4) Rear shock - (thanks Doug) The disc that is threaded into the spring "port" easily threaded in using needle nose pliers in the two holes. This adjusted the elastomer easily.
5) FYI - the "only" holes that did not line-up and required filing were all four of the Rear Suspension Link and the two at the Fork/Front Suspension Link connections. The other holes were dead on. I tried to "pull" the "off" ones through as John suggested, but mine were too far off. Rotary tool with a tile bit and a round file made quick clean work of it.
Thanks, Lavs
My build is going well, at an uncharacteristically leisurely pace. Today, I put on the wheels and rough attached most of the components, then put it on the trainer and climbed aboard to rough-in/monkey with the bars and leg reach, etc.
When I attempted to install the Shimano Ultegra "rear" derailleur (triple) I found that its "B tension adjustment screw" and its housing/bracket overlapped with the Cruzbike dropout tab, i.e. it would not thread in/install. Picture with the 2<sup>nd</sup> dropout tab below.
Am I missing something obvious or should I machine down the Cruzbike dropout?
Any thoughts?
Also,
1) Any images of the "front" derailleur cable routing?
2) What psi for the front shock?,... I think a read to start at ~150psi in the Silvio 1.5 PDF.
3) It looks like I will need to add a few washers to the front brakes in order to get the pads to clear the front fork.
4) Rear shock - (thanks Doug) The disc that is threaded into the spring "port" easily threaded in using needle nose pliers in the two holes. This adjusted the elastomer easily.
5) FYI - the "only" holes that did not line-up and required filing were all four of the Rear Suspension Link and the two at the Fork/Front Suspension Link connections. The other holes were dead on. I tried to "pull" the "off" ones through as John suggested, but mine were too far off. Rotary tool with a tile bit and a round file made quick clean work of it.
Thanks, Lavs
I am overseas tomorrow until next week so the build is paused in case you are wondering why things are silent on my front. I guess Doug and Lavs will be zipping around when I get back! .jpg)
Ivan, looks great, including
Ivan, looks great, including the wheelset. Wow, that bottom bracket is high with the chainstay extension, similar to the Vendetta. I have just put my 100mm chainstay extension on, but haven't got the front triangle done yet. I've got a 45 x-seam so I'm guessing my bottom bracket will not be that high. On my Silvio 1.0, my bottom bracket is below the top of the front wheel, so I am looking forward to getting it a bit higher. Like you, I'm heading out of town and will be delayed in finishing.
Ivan, looks great, including the wheelset. Wow, that bottom bracket is high with the chainstay extension, similar to the Vendetta. I have just put my 100mm chainstay extension on, but haven't got the front triangle done yet. I've got a 45 x-seam so I'm guessing my bottom bracket will not be that high. On my Silvio 1.0, my bottom bracket is below the top of the front wheel, so I am looking forward to getting it a bit higher. Like you, I'm heading out of town and will be delayed in finishing.
Jeremy S
Dude
Wow, you guys work
Wow, you guys work fast!
After some blood, sweat, and tears, I have the rear suspension together:
Doug, you said above:
Might there be a fit issue with the parts? I'm wondering what the purpose of fitting the elastomer so tightly into the port is, when it should be clamped between the disc on one side and the rear fork landing pad on the other.
Wow, you guys work fast!
After some blood, sweat, and tears, I have the rear suspension together:
Doug, you said above:
I don't think this is working as intended on my bike. I screwed the elastomer into the port, and it's now in there so tightly that it does not move. I can tighten the disc against the back of the elastomer (currently it's screwed down 3/4" into the port), or loosen the disc away from the elastomer, but the elastomer does not move with the disc, and I don't think any adjustment of the suspension is taking place.
Might there be a fit issue with the parts? I'm wondering what the purpose of fitting the elastomer so tightly into the port is, when it should be clamped between the disc on one side and the rear fork landing pad on the other.
Ivan
Guru
Unc99, do you have one of the
Unc99, do you have one of the frames? I will put this in my full build thread: When I got the frame I thought someone forgot to put the threaded holes in the frame body because there appeared to be none! However pressing with your finger reveals there are four holes and the paint and film of some sort were covering it. Just cut a square off using a sharp blade.
SUBSEQUENT EDIT: Seems like it is not necessary to cut it off. There is a film covered by paint and others found the edge and peeled it off.
.jpg)
Unc99, do you have one of the frames? I will put this in my full build thread: When I got the frame I thought someone forgot to put the threaded holes in the frame body because there appeared to be none! However pressing with your finger reveals there are four holes and the paint and film of some sort were covering it. Just cut a square off using a sharp blade.
SUBSEQUENT EDIT: Seems like it is not necessary to cut it off. There is a film covered by paint and others found the edge and peeled it off.
Ivan
Guru
SRAM Crankset Not Spinning
My crankset doesn't spin when I tighten it down. I purchased SRAM Force 2013 from Cruzbikes with my Silvio 2.0. I have the crankset installed as can be seen in the pic above. When I tighten it up using the 8mm allen key, it doesn't spin at all. It's not just a little tight, I mean I have to put force in to get it to spin! In order to get it to spin reasonably I have to leave it so loose it can't possibly be right.
This is the first time I am installing a crankset, so I am a noob here. I've searched online but couldn't find the answer. I have tightened down the bottom bracket good and tight. Not sure what to do. One thing I did incorrectly at first on the non-drive-side crank arm, was to use a 10mm allen key on the outer nut and moved it around a bit. I later figured it was the wrong thing and correctly managed to attach the crank arm using the 8mm allen key. Could my moving the 10mm have anything to do with it? Hope someone can help me figure this out as I'm trying to do this whole build on my own without going to the LBS!
BTW about my stem cap problem: I cut off 2mm from the top of the steering tube and it is fine and dandy now.
My crankset doesn't spin when I tighten it down. I purchased SRAM Force 2013 from Cruzbikes with my Silvio 2.0. I have the crankset installed as can be seen in the pic above. When I tighten it up using the 8mm allen key, it doesn't spin at all. It's not just a little tight, I mean I have to put force in to get it to spin! In order to get it to spin reasonably I have to leave it so loose it can't possibly be right.
This is the first time I am installing a crankset, so I am a noob here. I've searched online but couldn't find the answer. I have tightened down the bottom bracket good and tight. Not sure what to do. One thing I did incorrectly at first on the non-drive-side crank arm, was to use a 10mm allen key on the outer nut and moved it around a bit. I later figured it was the wrong thing and correctly managed to attach the crank arm using the 8mm allen key. Could my moving the 10mm have anything to do with it? Hope someone can help me figure this out as I'm trying to do this whole build on my own without going to the LBS!
BTW about my stem cap problem: I cut off 2mm from the top of the steering tube and it is fine and dandy now.
ivan, it sounds like the
ivan, it sounds like the bearings are being side loaded too much -
i'm not familiar with sram external bb cranksets but have you:
included spacers which should't be there?
ensured the bearing cups fully tightened into the bb shell - have the threads in the shell been cut long enough to allow this?
confirmed the bb shell width is 68mm?
edit.. just a thought - looking at sram crankset/bb design is appears it would be very intolerant of an over-width bb shell, so the shell may need 'facing' with a bb facing tool to remove the paint to bring it back to 68mm (i believe there is a similar issue with the dropouts). you could achieve the same thing with a skillfully used file, otherwise it's a job for your lbs.
ivan, it sounds like the bearings are being side loaded too much -
i'm not familiar with sram external bb cranksets but have you:
included spacers which should't be there?
ensured the bearing cups fully tightened into the bb shell - have the threads in the shell been cut long enough to allow this?
confirmed the bb shell width is 68mm?
edit.. just a thought - looking at sram crankset/bb design is appears it would be very intolerant of an over-width bb shell, so the shell may need 'facing' with a bb facing tool to remove the paint to bring it back to 68mm (i believe there is a similar issue with the dropouts). you could achieve the same thing with a skillfully used file, otherwise it's a job for your lbs.
John Tolhurst
Zen MBB Master
Spacers make the 68 width BB
Spacers make the 68 width BB into 73, so that a mtb crank can fit into a road BB shell. If you have a road crank, you would not install a spacer on the 68 width BB of the Silvio.
Spacers make the 68 width BB into 73, so that a mtb crank can fit into a road BB shell. If you have a road crank, you would not install a spacer on the 68 width BB of the Silvio.
