SOLD - Cruzbike Q45 custom electric build

Rishi@Cruzbike

Rishi@Cruzbike

Active Member
hmmm... need the money... not so simple.

I guess it comes down to a few of things. I liked building the e-Q45. The final build proved, to me, that e-recumbents are the best way to enjoy long rides and get a decent exercise. While researching and putting this bike together, I realized that simply slapping a motor on a bike is far from enough to maximize the Pedelec aspect of an ebike. Also, sometimes the manufacturers do not get it right.

I have been infected, probably not a good word to use but its the only one that fits, by the process of researching and build e-recumbents. Once the current world situation is stable and I'm free to use my "projects" money, I'd like to work on a new e-recumbent build.
 
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marshall2389

marshall2389

Guru
Could you share any lessons you learned from this build? what are you hoping to change or do you differently for your next build?

I have a mid-drive pedelec system on my velomobile. I like the mid-drive because I can keep it at an efficient motor speed for broad range of vehicle speeds. My impression is that hub motors are better for lower speeds. Do you know if they can still be effective at speeds above 30 mph?
 
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Rishi@Cruzbike

Rishi@Cruzbike

Active Member
I'm going to first go into the thinking, and later upgrading, that decided my eQ45 setup. (It's going to be a bit long-winded)

1. I believed it will give it a "all wheel" drive feel. While it's true at low pedelec assist levels, 1 and 2 with max being 5, at higher levels it's not so. What I mean is as long as the the watts you put in are less than or equal to 1.5 times the motor's assist.
The biggest advantage to this setup, for me, was the stabilizing effect. The push-pull, and my gearing setup made me feel in control when going down hills. The link below shows my gearing and the where my spinout speed is.... hopefully that makes sense. With this setup I have a very stable bike under me with max assist and flying at 33 mph, on flat roads and 90 rpm.

http://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=...,39,46,9&UF=2075&TF=90&SL=2.6&UN=MPH&DV=teeth

--I didn't want my drivetrain to ware out or fail during a ride. I have tried a buddies mid-drive on a Bachetta Giro 20. It was a great setup, very well done. After that I realized that a mid-drive build only needs us to carry a few more parts. I just don't know if it's a good MBB type FWD bike.

2. Originally, I did not want to make to many modification... yeah right. Week 2 in to riding the eQ45 with original drivetrain was removed and the research/tinkering for the best drivetrain started. Thank god for being able to return parts.

3. I wanted a build that was as much "plug and play" as possible.


There are actually 3 different builds I have in mind. I'm a data driven person and only by building them will I know what is going to be best for me.

1. Making or acquiring a Fixed Boom FWD bike with under-seat steering, like the Flevobike.
--> Installing a hub motor in the rear wheel

2. Acquiring a prototype tilting mechanism form "somewhere"
--> Phase 1: Install two hub motors in the rear wheels, really test that tilting mech. out at the same time.
--> Phase 2: Install a Mid-Drive, no hub motors.

3. KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid): Electrify a touring tadpole trike.

phew... writing this was tougher than I thought, but good!
 
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benphyr

benphyr

Guru-me-not
For #3 when you are touring how do you charge up. Dependent on the accommodations to plug in? How much battery do you need if you are touring- it seems as though you would either need lots to help for long hours ot very little to only help with starting and save weight all other times.
 
marshall2389

marshall2389

Guru
@Rishi@Cruzbike , A few questions:
Since hub motors operation speed is just proportional to road speed, it seems that they have a fixed efficient speed range. This contrasts with mid-drive motors that have a fixed efficient cadence range. I like the cadence range because then I can set up my vehicle so that I typically pedal close to my motor's maximum efficiency cadence regardless of road speed. I think this is a factor in how I'm able to go more than 100 miles off of my 36V-21Ah battery driving my BBS01B (mounted on a Katanga WAW). What kind of performance where you able to get out of this bike off of one charge? (Your 52V-15Ah battery holds just about the same amount of energy as my 36V-21Ah).

I'm really enjoying my mid-drive motor on my velomobile. This is very similar to your third KISS option. Katanga offers two ways to electrify; 1) Mid-drive motor, 2) Hub motors in each of the front wheels. They suggest option #2 in especially hilly places as the hub motors offer regenerative braking.
 
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benphyr

benphyr

Guru-me-not
@marshall2389 That is a very clear explanation of how the location of the motor in relation to the drive train affects both efficiency and whether it can do regenerative braking.
 
Rishi@Cruzbike

Rishi@Cruzbike

Active Member
The current batter setup with the way I use assist levels, I get 55-75 miles(hilly-along the coast). If I was able to stay at assist 1, I think I could get the magic 100 miles.

There's a High Energy – Samsung 35E - 50.4V 23.8Ah - 1200Whrs ~5.7kg battery pack available from EM3ev. Getting 100 miles on this battery, using lower assist levels, should be very possible.

I place as much importance to the battery (+ charger) as the motor. I also use the Grin tech's Satiator charger. It can charge the battery 8amps, and you can choose to what percentage you want it charged to.
With the above in mind, I'm more partial to a geared Hub, ie. no Regenerative Braking. Saving the weight here allows for a larger battery. I don't know of any e-bike re-gen capable motor that can make up the wattage difference.

I really like mid-drive motors. I would love to have one of each, with the same or very similar number in motor watts, torque, battery, etc. Get some real data.
 
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