Stac Zero (4iiii Fliiiight) - Trainer experience

[benphyr]

I have not used purchased nor used anything more recent than a decade ago but this is what I am looking at. It looks promising, quiet, lower cost, and made nearby: https://www.staczero.com/hero
and a review: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/06/stac-zero-trainer.html

I took the plunge: Stac Zero power meter model in the basement. I'll do my best to put up what I can in this thread. (Nah, better idea -- dedicated thread to Stac Zero.)

https://cruzbike.com/forum/threads/stac-zero-trainer-experience.12302/

 

[benphyr]

Beware: auto correct likes to change Stac Zero to staY zero but if you capitalize it you are fine.

 

[Don1]

well?....

 

[benphyr]

Before today I fiddled with setup.

I have a QX100 that is on the Stac Zero with stock components that include wire beaded tires and more importantly, steel pinned rim. That means that when they extruded the aluminum for the rim from a long piece and when it came time to join the ends of the circle they used a steel (or other magnetic metal) piece to hold the two ends together. Works pretty well and cheaper than welding the ends together. Unfortunately for the Stac Zero that means that there is one unusual spot on the rim that the magnets are attracted to extra strong at just one point in the rotation. So the extra attraction of the magnets to the pin means that it is harder to secure the magnets in place so that they are close enough to the rim to create the resistance and yet far enough to not have the tiny bit of play in the magnet structure to result in the magnets swerving towards the rim and ticking against them once per rotation. So it was finicky. With a non-magnetic but still electrically conductive rim (that is fully aluminum or carbon with aluminum brake surface) it would have been simple.

 

[benphyr]

I also did not want to make a mess of the basement so I got an old rice maker and some paraffin candles and joined the waxing club.

 

[benphyr]

Charge the Power meter battery - Before anything else!

I had just gotten started everything was working fine and I was going to go for a ride but things were not quite working properly, settings wouldn't update, it froze when I tried to update the firmware, so I read the troubleshooting which insisted that you charge the battery and check the position of the speed sensor before contacting them. So I did that once I found where the charge port was. Once there was some charge - bingo everything worked again - go figure. This is why they always have those huge instructions on new phones and everything saying "Make sure you charge for some ridiculous length of time before you use this new toy."

 

[benphyr]

So tonight I finally got in a ride using the mobile app (my phone is Android) that comes with the Stac Zero. It is very basic and could easily be improved but does the functions you need it to. It has a screen called

"Show Power Readings" that displays your wattage in large font so that most of the screen is taken up by these readings.

*Instant, *3 second,
*30 second, *5 minute,
*Lap, and *Workout Averages

There is a second screen called: "Detailed Parameters" that among technical data and collecting a log of data (for debugging and support reasons I presume) displays:

-Current wheel speed (in m/s)
-Cadence (an estimate / calculation based on variations in pedal stroke - as per the people at Stac - so would not work if anyone actually had a perfectly round pedal stroke with no dead spots ...) Music experience should give me a reasonable estimation of tempo / cadence - and it seemed pretty accurate to me.
-Current Power

I put some music on, grabbed the phone and swapped back and forth between reading up on Zwift and checking on the cadence / power on the Stac app. I had no issues with zero trainer noise, only the chain was making noise, and was able to vary my power by shifting gears like most simple trainers. In this test case I tried to maintain 100rpm for the ride. (I am small - 135lbs) and I warmed up at about 100W, upped it to 150W, then one more gear to 190ish for a short interval, back down to 100W, another interval at 150W, and a cool down from 100W down. I cleared the workout averages by mistake about 3/4 through so I'm not sure what my results were.

The test was very successful. Quiet, yes. Smooth, basically not noticing the trainer. And this is without the wheel weights which are to smooth the momentum out for better road feel. Seemed pretty good to me as long as I maintained a reasonably high cadence which is what I am currently aiming to do - increase my cadence. At higher wattage that might be different. I'll let you know if I get larger legs.

 

[jond]

Good on you. I read somewhere that that steel wire beaded tires or any steel in your rim was an issue for this smart trainer. Heck I did not realise they pinned aluminium rims with steel.

Sounds like the perfect opportunity for a nice carbon set coming your way.

 

[benphyr]

The wire bead is pretty much a non-issue for the base and power meter models because the force remains the same all the way around the tire - it just makes it very slightly more difficult to get set up while having to fight the magnetic attraction and possibly slightly more difficult to set it up very close to the rim without touching that would be needed for very high resistance. The smart trainer, on the other hand, is constantly adjusting clearance to adjust resistance so then it becomes an issue. The current device requires a small amount of force to change the clearance and possibly some to hold it there just against vibration and air movement (minimal). However, with a steel beaded tire the amount of force required to change the clearance would be greatly increased to combat the magnetic attraction. Not only that but the force required to counteract the magnetic attraction changes by the square of the distance between the magnets and steel so would vary hugely as the clearance is changed, not to mention if your wheel is not absolutely perfect.

The pin on the other hand.. makes it more difficult - not impossible, but you need to get it tight and use more attention to detail. That is, try more times until you get the balance between small gap to the rim and the magnets touching at the point where the pin enter/exits the magnet array. The lower the resistance that you need and the faster your rim will be moving the more forgiving it is so I'm thinking for the same pin a 700 wheel would be a little better than my 559 and a higher road gearing would be a little better than my stock 34/48 x 34/11. This is in no way a criticism of Cruzbike stock gearing - it identifies what works best with the Stac Zero if you are having difficulties.

Those are my understandings of the challenges I faced and my experiences with the wire bead (small inconvenience) and steel pin (awkward inconvenience but doable).

 

[ElyDave]

sounds like this could be my next trainer, when the Tacx fianlly quits - it keeps breaking plastic bits but that's all so far. Not bad for £100 secondhand

 

[benphyr]

I am very happy with it. I purchased last year's model and the company has improved the wheel weights so the owner of the company, Andrew, offered, scheduled, and stopped by this evening to drop off the new ones at no cost! And then he stayed to check out my Cruzbike installation on the trainer, offer suggestions, etc. It was amazing to see customer service that included a side trip to a customer who had already purchased and taken home an item! Wow!

 

[ElyDave]

Thread resurrection: Following my recent misadventure, I'm starting to spend the compensation in my head already , a new turbo trainer popped into my head. Whilst mine is perfectly fucntinal, it's second hand and at least ten years old. The main reason though is the cables, cables everywhere. So my thoughts turn to smart trainers, direct drive trainers and then I remembered this as well.

So my question, of those that have tried it, has anyone used it successfullly with the Tacx TTS software? I've already paid for that, and several of the real life videos so I'd be reluctant to ditch that for no purpose.

Thanks, Dave

 

[ElyDave]

Right, now thoroughly pi$$ed off with the Tacx and it's never ending random calibration values and wheel changes.

Tested two wheels today, both good, no steel pins.

Anyone else used these and have any feedback? I'm itching to press the button on this.

Oh, and I'm assuming that it goes wide enough to accomodate a CB front end?

 

[benphyr]

Right, now thoroughly pi$$ed off with the Tacx and it's never ending random calibration values and wheel changes.
1-Tested two wheels today, both good, no steel pins.
2-Anyone else used these and have any feedback? I'm itching to press the button on this.
3-Oh, and I'm assuming that it goes wide enough to accomodate a CB front end?

@ElyDave,

1-(Assuming these are aluminum alloy - they need to allow for electrical eddy currents.)
2-Setup is easy on my Power Meter version - easier on the Halcyon Smart trainer version - The new software apparently calibrates every time you start to ride automatically in the first several wheel revolutions.
3-I have a Q559 and Conversion Kit. Both fit fine. Works fine. I'm not majorly happy with how it clamps onto the Tacx skewer currently in use, probably works better with the non-proprietary shape of the old school skewers that are rounded on one end and slightly conical on the other end. I'll test and get back to you on that if you pester me.
I think it has an extra 1-inch worth of adjustment on my Q559.

StacZero standard setup is with two foldable legs wide towards the front to provide stability to a diamond frame bike and one rear ground touch point. My 2017 model only reports power when the wheel spin is in the typical configuration. If you want to set it up with the wide part under your Cruzbike you may want to talk to the owners of StacZero. I think they mentioned that they might adjust the code to allow it to report absolute value of force measured so that we recumbents can set it up "reverse" of the typical setup (use wheels spinning in either direction) but I have not followed up on that as it works fine how it is. With my setup it appears as though I could take apart a couple bolts, re-mount the strain gauge in reverse orientation and put it back together. They might be willing to do that for you prior to shipping if you prefer.

 

[benphyr]

The wheel change is not effortless in that it is giant thumb screws that do the clamp onto the skewer.
I have not so far been able to get videos working with GoldenCheetah and the StacZero (I started working on this last week). It appears as though it should be able to be done but I need some .rlv files to use to test (which I don't have). Zwift certainly works - but I'm cheap <beginning rant> and find paying several meals a month as a fee to look at poor computer generated scenery ... a little more than I'm willing to pay. If I had a gym membership that I could replace with Zwift I might look at it differently ... but then again who wants a gym membership.) <end rant>

The StacZero is easy to transport and re-set up in a new location - I've gone down to my friend's place to ride weekly over the winter.

 

[ElyDave]

Cheers @benphyr , looks like a starting position might be to try the TTS 4 software with an ANT+ dongle and see if that works with the Halcyon.

The unit itself sounds good though

 

[benphyr]

@ElyDave the ANT+ dongle works fine with my PowerMeter version so definitely worth a try. If you do get the Stac, let me know how it works out for you.

 

[ElyDave]

Thanks,
with the ANT+ dongle working fine in simulation mode so far, not tried in erg mode yet. There is a very large offset though between the speed displayed in the TTS4 software, coming from the STAC unit vs on the GArmin 800, coming from the speed sensor on the hub. STAC are taking a look at that, but I suspect it's the algorithm that calculates virtual speed.

With accurate power readings though, it's telling me I'm putting out a higher wattage than the Tacx used to, so it can't be all bad

 

[trplay]

- and find paying several meals a month as a fee to look at poor computer generated scenery ... a little more than I'm willing to pay.

Sounds like an effetive weight loss program

 

[benphyr]

From a different thread that I was derailing... (sorry @nplusone)

From benphyr, post: 165585, member: 5140:
Nice Stac Zero trainer. How did it work with the V20?

nplusone:
Regarding the STAC zero, I bought it when they were almost 50% off as the company was bought by 4iiii and at that price I think it’s hard to beat. I did get some annoying rub with it that was hard to get rid of, the road feel wasn’t awesome, and having to add the wheel weights was a hassle as they were tricky to fit. I understand the new model has fixed some of those issues, but I’m not sure how much they’re charging for it. If I was using the trainer frequently, I’d probably spring for a kicks core.

benphyr:
I have (a couple) STAC zero trainers one from the very beginning of the company and one from kijiji local classifieds for cheap. A little finicky to setup (new ones from 4iiii appear to be easy setup) but extremely reliable at providing power data - I have never had any power drops - something that I see happening with others almost every time I ride. [/QUOTE]