Stop paying attention for 4 years and boom

[ratz]

Well I got a quick lesson this week about what @Robert Holler has been dealing with on the parts front Since Covid

1. 11-speed is dead from a competent standpoint if you want SRAM wireless electronic shifting, get a new bike and new wheels
2. If you want spare parts to repair damage from the 11-speed, forget it. It's out of stock for 365 days
3. None of the 12 Speed stuff is compatible with the old 11-speed stuff (except for the "Unicorn D1 Series". You can't find the right shifter Force D1 anywhere and the super expensive Red AXS (maybe). It's digital, for goodness sake; that means the vendor is lazy.
4. SRAM 12-speed solutions are useless on old bike wheels because the cassette is not compatible with a single legacy wheel. Why would anyone want to ride on the existing hyperglide wheels that have plenty of miles left in them?
5. Good luck finding things that aren't hydraulic brakes, so even if you work around the 12-speed shifting you can't get the more straightforward braking solution
6. 90mm wheels are dead, and 77 are faster. (I think they never could make a 90mm wheel with sufficient quality for tubeless, so 77 was the best they could do)
7. Shimano actually understands that spare parts matter to people who fall over or have invested in the echo system
8. Shimano made a 12-speed hyperglide cassette to keep older wheels on the road if you can find the rim brake shifters.

I managed to track down 2 of the last 6 Force D1s out there after three days of hunting. So I can use the spares in the garage to make the last RIM brake frame electric.

I've seen vendors abandon one tech stack only to move on, but at the prices of this stuff, spare parts should be around for more than four years.

I like the new tech I'm seeing but this trend towards throwing the entire bike away and replacing everything just doesn't feel aligned with the true eco spirit of biking.

So let it begin time to refactor the old guard and the new guard because I see a large chasm between the two in the garage. Now that I'm done being mad I can start solving it.

 

[Frito Bandito]

I feel your pain Ratz. I switched from the R7000 105 11-speed to SRAM AXS, but it took a lot of research, and a bit of a gamble, but I was able to get my short cage Force AXS rear derailleur to work with my Campagnolo C15 Bullet 50 rim by using a Shimano free hub and an Ultegra 12-speed 11-30 and an 11-34 cassette without any adaptors or special parts. Not only that, my 2013 Mavic CXR 60C rims came with a Shimano Free hub, so I installed the Ultegra 12-speed cassette on it, and it works perfectly. So, if you have any wheel that has a Shimano free hub on it and a SRAM AXS groupset, just install a 12-speed Ultegra cassette and I bet you are good to go. Initially SRAm and Shimano didn't play nicely together, and I get it from a business standpoint, but with my R7000 105 chainrings, SRAM groupset, Campagnolo wheels, Shimano freehub, Ultegra cassette and KMC chain, That is about as "Mullet" as possible.

 

[Andrew Wilson]

Shoot... I'm still running 10 spd stuff with cable shifting and rim brakes with tubed tires on both my bikes. Good thing I have ample spare parts.

 

[Henri]

Compatibility is way less of an issue, when you don't only look at SRAM, Shimano and maybe Campagnolo. In Velomobiles we mostly only have the "old" HG freehub bodies and we still run SRAM Eagle AXS, with a 11-52 cassette most often from Rotor, I think. On many wheels you can also just change the freehub body to XD/XDR or Microspline to be compatible with the modern cassetes with 10t (or even 9t) sprockets, if you want that, but the derailleur just works with 11t.
Why a new bike for SRAM AXS? The new Transmission line needs a bike with UDH compatibility, bur all the other stuff screws in like every other one does and that won't go away toooo quickly.
11spd dead? When you wand electronic or what? But you can even use a 12spd AXS rear derailleur with an 11spd cassette! Seems you just set the limit screws correctly and then you have two gears that are the same. (Highest or lowest)
90mm wheels dead? There are 180mm ones. Can there really be no inbetween?
There are no systems with electronic shifting and cable brakes? You are upgrading in the wrong order, much better brakes are more important than marginally better shifting (no performance and especially no safety gained, just a bit of comfort, but still way less than with a better brake).

 

[Robert Holler]

Trust me this is a real headache for me as well. Bike parts and "groups" are becoming more like iPhones and that is a real headache. Especially as an OEM, where we cannot simply order bunches of spare components - both because we aren't allowed to and also because it makes no financial sense.

Also having to even order huge amounts of components can be 24 months out - and in that time they make what you have on order obsolete in the 2-3 year timeframe and/or incompatible with their new stuff.

 

[Tuloose]

Shoot... I'm still running 10 spd stuff with cable shifting and rim brakes with tubed tires on both my bikes. Good thing I have ample spare parts.

Same here Andrew.
10x2 gives me plenty of gearing for anything I might encounter.
12x1 seems like it lacks the high end gearing I want on my Vendetta.
I have 11x1 on my T50 but that's not a speed machine.
Electronic shifting? - I don't see it as a much needed improvement.
On a group ride recently the ride leader had to leave because his shifter battery died!
Rim brakes work just fine for me.
They are light, simple and it's easy to see if the pads need replacing.
I don't understand the trend towards hydraulic discs.
More maintenance issues, more to go wrong.
Anyway brakes are only good for slowing the bike and I like to go fast.

It seems the bike industry is always on the make for more expensive "improvements" of dubious value.
What if they put their efforts towards making a bike that was actually comfortable so that more people would want to ride?

 

[ratz]

Ah the power of venting feels better Now.

I hear you all on the mechanical points for most of the garage i Agree.

My major points of frustration is there is a 3 year old carbon triangle frame in the garage Rim brake and unlike the Cruzbike it’s not disc/rim combo. And electric for it puts 5 years high end life into but you can’t find anything digital for rim brakes, and if you can the pile of wheels that would work need more investment to make them work namely ultegra 12 speed but then they become in compatible with the other bikes in the grange.

When it comes to the expensive stuff I want every part to work with 3-4 bikes or purpose targeted configurations. I go out of
My way to do that as it saves money for other solves and maximizes the life span. But dam if the industry isn’t doing everything it can do to block that.

I did find the parts To extend one more
Time but it shouldn’t be that hard and require rubber mallet super power stubbornness (aka I called in a favor)

Meanwhile I knew about the ultegra 12 and I had forget the XDS upgrades swap out trick but that still frustrates because it is now a 30 min wheel change and not a 30sec put the wheel of choice on bike of choice situation

As for the tires 90mm that’s me making fun of FLO their 90’s which I have where defective the first go and far from reliable tubeless 9 months later after they ”fixed” the problem seeing Them abandon them for the reasons sited makes me chuckle because it’s clear they couldn’t get the manufacturing quality up to a level to keep selling them.

 

[Henri]

can’t find anything digital for rim brakes

It feels like these compatibility complaints are mostly created by brifters, that connect shifting and braking into one system. That's one of the reasons why I switched to a Surly Corner Bar / Corner Stop (and Chinese carbon clones) and separate flat bar controls. Now I can use any brake lever I want and can pair my SRAM AXS with a MTB paddle shifter and add a wireless blip to the other side, if I want (for those running a front derailleur). Or I can use a blip box and put two wired blips on each side so I can always shift onehandedly and soon I'll try Zirbel Twister plugged into the blip box. (Basically the blip box is just a switch contact and it seems you could wire up anything you like.)
If the Surley is not the choice because of its shallow drop, you can also put something together with a bullhorn bar and barends. Or some controlls will fit a drop bar as well, preferably with straight drops like the stock Cruzbike bar and maybe some filing on the clamps. You could use a drop bar brake-only-lever (for single speeds or just don't connect the shift cable) and some kind of blip. Time trial brakes and barend shifters are also a somewhat popular combination for tinkerers.
And I would imagine that there must somewhere be someone with a compatibly device. Be it an aftermarket brifter or a translator from hydraulic lever to cable pulled brakes (Some velomobiles have something like that for their drum brakes that don't exist in a hydraulic version.) maybe even a translator from cable pull shifting to electronic.

 

[Velocivixen]

I’m really old school - I’ve got 7-9 speed, but mostly 9 speed. I like friction shifting so I’m ok if I have to go that route. I refuse to go any further down the rabbit hole.

 

[ratz]

It feels like these compatibility complaints are mostly created by brifters, that connect shifting and braking into one system. That's one of the reasons why I switched to a Surly Corner Bar / Corner Stop (and Chinese carbon clones) and separate flat bar controls.

Indeed that might be the direction I start heading. Brifters was about shifting leverage and thats no longer an issue.

 

[CycleHead]

Well I got a quick lesson this week about what @Robert Holler has been dealing with on the parts front Since Covid

1. 11-speed is dead from a competent standpoint if you want SRAM wireless electronic shifting, get a new bike and new wheels
2. If you want spare parts to repair damage from the 11-speed, forget it. It's out of stock for 365 days
3. None of the 12 Speed stuff is compatible with the old 11-speed stuff (except for the "Unicorn D1 Series". You can't find the right shifter Force D1 anywhere and the super expensive Red AXS (maybe). It's digital, for goodness sake; that means the vendor is lazy.
4. SRAM 12-speed solutions are useless on old bike wheels because the cassette is not compatible with a single legacy wheel. Why would anyone want to ride on the existing hyperglide wheels that have plenty of miles left in them?
5. Good luck finding things that aren't hydraulic brakes, so even if you work around the 12-speed shifting you can't get the more straightforward braking solution
6. 90mm wheels are dead, and 77 are faster. (I think they never could make a 90mm wheel with sufficient quality for tubeless, so 77 was the best they could do)
7. Shimano actually understands that spare parts matter to people who fall over or have invested in the echo system
8. Shimano made a 12-speed hyperglide cassette to keep older wheels on the road if you can find the rim brake shifters.

I managed to track down 2 of the last 6 Force D1s out there after three days of hunting. So I can use the spares in the garage to make the last RIM brake frame electric.

I've seen vendors abandon one tech stack only to move on, but at the prices of this stuff, spare parts should be around for more than four years.

I like the new tech I'm seeing but this trend towards throwing the entire bike away and replacing everything just doesn't feel aligned with the true eco spirit of biking.

So let it begin time to refactor the old guard and the new guard because I see a large chasm between the two in the garage. Now that I'm done being mad I can start solving it.

 

[CycleHead]

I own & ride bikes made of either 4130 chrome molybdenum or aluminum: one full Campy, one Dura Ace from the 1970’s, a full-suspension MTB (aluminum), an aluminum around-town cruiser and, my favorite, a RANS Stratus LE feet-forward-and-down recumbent. All have derailleur/chain/cassette setups which, by their very design, are PITA’s so far as maintenance and vulnerability are concerned. My first non-tricycle bike was a Norman brand “lightweight” with Sturmey Archer internally-geared hub (IGH) having Three “speeds.” That was 1957.

Fast forward to 2023: what are your thoughts on both analogue and electric CruzBike transmissions ?

 

[ratz]

Fast forward to 2023: what are your thoughts on both analogue and electric CruzBike transmissions ?

My only reason for the electric; is I'm just dumb enough to go up steep hills on the V20, and I tend to push it to the last second; electric will let you shift under extreme pedal load without and loss of rhythm or any waste muscle energy, that seems to leave a tad more reserve energy for the inevitable emergency getting unclipped. Once you experience the precision and the speed of a light "tap" to grab a gear in either direction it's hard to give. This was true when I was in shape pushing some stupid ftp for and hour straight or now that I'm out of shape dragging my weight down the road trying to get back to racing weight. If I had to go cables I can, everything else leisure here is cable and frankenstiened but I would miss it.