Hey Vicki, who's your friend at the back seat hanging? That must be 'It' item for T-50.
T50 seat advice needed
- Thread starter Brad R
- Start date
Hey Vicki, who's your friend at the back seat hanging? That must be 'It' item for T-50.
You mentioned that you ride a long wheelbase bike. The seat angle is probably similar and you are probably comfortable at that angle with the right seat. I wonder if you could mount the seat from your long wheelbase bike. If it is not to hard, it might be worth a try.
Vicki C.
T50 Trailblazer and Silvio newbie
There would be no way to mount a Rans or Tour Easy seat onto the T50. I can't imagine. The seat angle is similar. The bottom bracket is a bit higher.
I will say that the T50 is the most UNcomfortable recumbent I have ridden, and I have ridden a few: My own Rans Gliss and Rans Rocket, a Rans tandem, an S&B tandem on which I rode two double centuries in the stoker position, a homebuilt long wheelbase recumbent, although that seat was just a sling mesh seat and there were some issues with my tailbone sitting on the frame that didn't work out so well, a borrowed Cruzbike Quest, and my two Tour Easys. I have NEVER had butt pain or numbness before in riding recumbents since 1999.
Today after listening to the rack rattle and being miserable on the seat for 60 miles, I was about to chuck the whole thing in the trash.
And I do really like the T50 and would be sad if I had to give it up. But the point is to be comfortable riding it, as all the ads say, and I am not.There would be no way to mount a Rans or Tour Easy seat onto the T50. I can't imagine. The seat angle is similar. The bottom bracket is a bit higher.
I will say that the T50 is the most UNcomfortable recumbent I have ridden, and I have ridden a few: My own Rans Gliss and Rans Rocket, a Rans tandem, an S&B tandem on which I rode two double centuries in the stoker position, a homebuilt long wheelbase recumbent, although that seat was just a sling mesh seat and there were some issues with my tailbone sitting on the frame that didn't work out so well, a borrowed Cruzbike Quest, and my two Tour Easys. I have NEVER had butt pain or numbness before in riding recumbents since 1999.
Today after listening to the rack rattle and being miserable on the seat for 60 miles, I was about to chuck the whole thing in the trash.
I did the mod of moving the seat back mount up to the top of the seat.
That increases the recline enough so that I was much more comfortable on my 30 mile ride today. The increased recline did not require a head rest for me and put enough weight on my back to make my rear more comfortable.
I still needed to stand up and stretch after the first 40 minutes and every 20 to 30 minutes after that.
I only need a short stretch so standing up at a stoplight was enough to relax whatever was tight and keep me going for another 20 to 30 minutes.
@Vicki C.
If you can be comfortable with a more reclined seating position, you might be able to get low enough with just drilling the two holes.
I do wonder if any of the development team took the T50 prototypes on long rides. Or maybe the entire development team is of one body type and they actually find the seat comfortable. The other possibility is that they expect most T50 buyers to do only short rides or to be accepting of the modifications required to get comfortable for long rides.
I guess the other thing we don't know is whether only a small percentage of buyers are uncomfortable or whether only a small percentage are comfortable.
I hope that I can get comfortable. This bike feels like the fastest bike I have ever owned. I am definitely able to hold speed better going uphill.
DavidJL
Well-Known Member
Interesting to see others have drilled holes further up the seat back. I also cut 1 1/8 inches off the stays and the strut. Angle achieved seems not to require head rest. I think most of my discomfort is from the seat cushion. Each rider will have to do whatever is needed. There is no one solution for all. I do think there is much more evolution possible in the seat design, but I do like the narrower seat back better than a seat with stretched fabric. There does need to be some way to easily insure the rider is centered on the seat. Perhaps the length of the seat back should be longer or shorter depending on the rider's torso length. Maybe the seat will need to be custom made for the rider. The developers most likely thought of the T50 as a short distance city bike. For me, the bike is a work in progress, a challenge to come up with better ideas for comfort. Consider the effort RojoRacing had to make to get his V20 bearable to ride.
super slim
Zen MBB Master
I think that 35 degrees is the sweat spot for power climbing, and aero resistance!
Vicki C.
T50 Trailblazer and Silvio newbie
I am not that comfortable drilling holes in the bike, but it may be necessary. It seems the only option for me unless I want to sit absolutely upright, which would be a terrible solution.
I rode 62 miles yesterday and 60 today and today was the absolute worst. I keep thinking it would get better but the soreness lasted much longer this time.
I think you may have a point that these bikes are not considered "road bikes" or something, but the discomfort really took me by surprise, as did the inferior pad.
I just have a bit of a problem with receiving inferior merchandise. I do understand that the component group was lower end and the wheels and tires, etc., but the photos I saw always seemed to show a seat pad that fits the seat and does not have loose threads and the Velcro strip applied off-center, unlike the pad I received. And I don't like having then to buy something else to replace it. Fortunately, I have a friend with an old Silvio pad set and she is going to try to let me borrow it if we can manage to coordinate our schedules. My budget was tight or I would have bought the Silvio or Quest my local Cruzbike dealer was selling or I would have purchased a higher level of T50. I enjoy riding the bike otherwise and have even done better with the gearing on the hills than I expected, but the sacroiliac pain is more than I bargained for and is a real buzzkill.
Last edited:
DavidJL
Well-Known Member
I made a drill guide with holes in desired location (3 inches up seat back) using a drill press to insure that holes are in proper location. I have a picture of this drill guide on the Whatcha thread. I would never drill into the frame itself, but I have no qualms about drilling into the seat parts.
ratz
Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
Vicki Et al,
I think it's fair assumption on my part that 60+ miles rides are at the upper end of design goals for the T50 and probably beyond it; at least out of the box. it's a town bike after all. Now That doesn't excuse the seat pad quality problems that's a supplier management issue; seems to be an repeated issue for small manufactures working with Twain; CB has to make a large number of frequent trips overseas to ensure the quality goes up and stays up. That's probably the #1 reason you see Maria with firm grip on the reigns and nothing announced until that sort of junk is sorted out. T50 kickstarter being the exception to recent improvement because it was by design early access.
Now back to the mileage; there are a number of people that have done mega mileage on the Q series. across the board most of them had to do seat enhancements of some sort. I've done several social rides in the 60-100 mile range on our Quests. If I made a habit of it I would have to mod my seat too. Several of you are accomplished Bent riders and the T50 is proving to many that they can ride the MBB with success. I would think in the end that many of you are really a prime candidate for a S40, that's the bike designed with your group in mind. But the T50 certainly can fill the roll as long as you work the tweaks and are willing to learn and tinker. Because of that I see the T50 is a launching point; keep at it; this stuff is interesting; keep getting it dialed in. One of 3 things will happen:
1) You get your T50's perfect and unique
2) You'll get your T50 perfect for the < 50 mile stuff and here the siren song of the S40 and go n+1
3) You'll find it too much and decide it's not for you.
We have a lot of (1)'s with the Pre-T50 models; each day we get more and more (2)'s and with luck we'll continue to not have too many (3)'s
Feedback on quality; make sure that info gets to support@cruzbike.com and don't loose site of when you push the bike into areas it's not designed for out fo the box; it can go there; but not without your help and patient testing. Tribe is here to help and we are also most curious in both the success and failures. Check out the Silvio handle bar thread if you want to see A ton of failures that moved things forward; eventually leading to the curved slider.
So that's the positive encouragement for a week. I coined the T50 Trailblazer label for those of you that are really working it; just as a reminder that you really are doing us all a big favor. Those that want that label on their account PM me to add you, so the tribe can spot you in the room .
I think it's fair assumption on my part that 60+ miles rides are at the upper end of design goals for the T50 and probably beyond it; at least out of the box. it's a town bike after all. Now That doesn't excuse the seat pad quality problems that's a supplier management issue; seems to be an repeated issue for small manufactures working with Twain; CB has to make a large number of frequent trips overseas to ensure the quality goes up and stays up. That's probably the #1 reason you see Maria with firm grip on the reigns and nothing announced until that sort of junk is sorted out. T50 kickstarter being the exception to recent improvement because it was by design early access.
Now back to the mileage; there are a number of people that have done mega mileage on the Q series. across the board most of them had to do seat enhancements of some sort. I've done several social rides in the 60-100 mile range on our Quests. If I made a habit of it I would have to mod my seat too. Several of you are accomplished Bent riders and the T50 is proving to many that they can ride the MBB with success. I would think in the end that many of you are really a prime candidate for a S40, that's the bike designed with your group in mind. But the T50 certainly can fill the roll as long as you work the tweaks and are willing to learn and tinker. Because of that I see the T50 is a launching point; keep at it; this stuff is interesting; keep getting it dialed in. One of 3 things will happen:
1) You get your T50's perfect and unique
2) You'll get your T50 perfect for the < 50 mile stuff and here the siren song of the S40 and go n+1
3) You'll find it too much and decide it's not for you.
We have a lot of (1)'s with the Pre-T50 models; each day we get more and more (2)'s and with luck we'll continue to not have too many (3)'s
Feedback on quality; make sure that info gets to support@cruzbike.com and don't loose site of when you push the bike into areas it's not designed for out fo the box; it can go there; but not without your help and patient testing. Tribe is here to help and we are also most curious in both the success and failures. Check out the Silvio handle bar thread if you want to see A ton of failures that moved things forward; eventually leading to the curved slider.
So that's the positive encouragement for a week. I coined the T50 Trailblazer label for those of you that are really working it; just as a reminder that you really are doing us all a big favor. Those that want that label on their account PM me to add you, so the tribe can spot you in the room .
Vicki C.
T50 Trailblazer and Silvio newbie
Thank you. I don't mean to sound like an absolute crank but it never occurred to me that the bicycle would have limitations as far as comfort is concerned, whether in ten miles or a hundred. Gearing, wheels, tires might want replacing at some point? Yes. A little heavier than the higher level models? Yes. Having discomfort sitting? No, especially not when it starts less than ten miles into the ride. In fact, other than Sunday, on the other rides my behind must have gotten numb or something because the discomfort level seemed to ease later in the ride. The ride distance should not matter. And don't know how to do the modifications as much as some of the experienced tinkerers here.
If I can figure out what I need to do to fix it, I will do my best. I don't expect to keep up with my friend on her Silvio. Heck, I can't keep up with her on my Tour Easy.
I appreciate your input and, as I said, the bike can serve me just as well as my Tour Easy for long rides and even rollers up to probably 8% and even 10%-11% for a short distance. And I can add a front double or a wider range on the cassette if that becomes problematic. I did not expect to get a Quest or Silvio for$1000 ($1200 with shipping and partial build). If I could have afforded to buy one, I probably would have. But to have a seat pad that doesn't even cover the seat side to side and mounting strips that show off the side, a seat with minimal support that I did not expect because I know that Cruzbike is a quality company. The photos of the Cruzbike prototypes on which I gauged the appearance of the bike I was buying seemed to indicate a better seat quality. I know others have fussed about the seat and gotten some relief. I have photos of my seat pad but I need to reduce the size of the file in order to be able to load it, as well as photo from the ads for the bike.
I want to reiterate that I love how easy this bike is to ride versus a previous Quest I had borrowed. I never could do figure eights on that one and taking a hand off the handlebars was scary. The front end was hard to keep aligned. All of my fears about riding a Cruzbike have been allayed since riding my T50. I am riding in traffic, in groups, on roads with 65+ traffic whizzing by me, and even had to take an evasive move when a car pulled out in front of me in an intersection. I want most desperately for this to be the bike I ride most often, for a number of reasons, and think I can work through most issues. But I just can't afford to continue to spend money. I already have a rack that I bought through Cruzbike and finally installed that is coming back off the bike because it rattles unmercifully even though all bolts are tightened and I even strapped the rods to keep them from tapping each other. I have had to purchase bottle holders to replace the Cruzbike one that bought because it will not hold my usual Polar bottles and they fall out. I would love to return those for a refund but I hate to further burden Cruzbike staff, because I know they must be incredibly overwhelmed to get all the bikes shipped out as promised and also sending out missing parts and such.
And I have been a Cruzbike follower and supporter since Maria Parker's incredible RAAM ride and was familiar with the brand even before that through friends that own them. People notice the bike and I am able to help market the brand when I am out riding. Cruzbike ownership is increasing in my area. I even had a chance to ride on Saturday for a bit with a fellow Cruzbike forum member who lives less than an hour away. We could talk bike trash and it was great.
Maybe the majority of folks are happy with the seat pad (or theirs was a bit better than mine) and maybe not that many folks are having trouble with seat discomfort. To the extent that the problem is related to the design of the pad, it would be lovely if Cruzbike could help us figure it out when someone gets a chance, particularly for those who are not building up a frame but bought a complete so that the bike was fully rideable, comfortably, on arrival.
Thanks again for the opportunity for dialog. I will keep looking for the solutions others have found success with on this issue.
Harking back to the ads for the T50, which to me did not hint at limitations:
We spend enough of our lives hunched over screens and keyboards. We shouldn't have to do that on a bike, too.
The T50 is an ergonomic bicycle that lets you sit back comfortably rather than crouch over the handlebars. This riding position saves your neck, back, wrists, groin, and quite possibly your sex life by relieving the pressure caused by the traditional bike riding position.
Here are some things you can look forward to as a T50 owner:
- The only soreness after a ride being in your muscles.
- Getting fit. Burning calories. Sleeping well.
- Seeing the world.
- Enjoying time with friends, kids and loved ones.
- Enjoying every mile you ride, free from discomfort
- Climbing hills and mountains fast, thanks to our unique front wheel drive design.
- Safe city riding with your head up, naturally and comfortably at eye level with drivers.
When we set out to build the T50, it had a few different code names. But the one that stuck was "Model T". Ford's quote above about the Model T aptly describes the T50, too, and we dream of this bike being equally revolutionary. Ford's "Any color as long as it's black" quip also holds true for the T50. Simplicity in manufacturing and finishing allows us to deliver excellent quality at an accessible price.
Last edited:
ratz
Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
I really have to open the box in the garage with the red T50 in it and check the seat out; I find myself so short on time I've been avoiding opening that vortex. But I have a box with 5-8 Q series original high quality seat pads in it. If they fit the seat they might solve your problem. Seats not going to fit every one's body; If the fix for some is as simple as a seat pad that's good to know. I recall you posted a picture of your seat pad early; can you link us to that or repost a new picture to compare.
I'll open the box tonight so I can see what's going on.
As for the mileage discussion; that's mostly around the idea that a "general" design will work for 90% of the people on short mileage. Once you pile on more than 50 miles the fit-ment issues will show up. When you join the high mileage crazy club tweaks come up for higher percentage of people, just depends on which group you fall into. V20's not really different, I can ride the stock seat all day; some people after 20 miles ugh, same with the neck rest. I did a double metric this weekend and left me wanting to remove a bolt from under my seat pad; not a problem at 80miles but at 128miles yep I could tell it was there. weird stuff. But like a bunch of us you are firmly in the "I need this work camp".... I'll report back on the Quest seats pads tonight; If they fit I'll get you a set to test
I'll open the box tonight so I can see what's going on.
As for the mileage discussion; that's mostly around the idea that a "general" design will work for 90% of the people on short mileage. Once you pile on more than 50 miles the fit-ment issues will show up. When you join the high mileage crazy club tweaks come up for higher percentage of people, just depends on which group you fall into. V20's not really different, I can ride the stock seat all day; some people after 20 miles ugh, same with the neck rest. I did a double metric this weekend and left me wanting to remove a bolt from under my seat pad; not a problem at 80miles but at 128miles yep I could tell it was there. weird stuff. But like a bunch of us you are firmly in the "I need this work camp".... I'll report back on the Quest seats pads tonight; If they fit I'll get you a set to test
ratz
Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
Ok the box is open; I lose the bet about not opening it before September with Eric. Taking one for the team.
1) My seat pad; looks ok.
2) Seat pan
The bad news is the marketing verbiage means different things to different people and that pads going to disappoint a portion of the audience. The good news is the seat pan is the same as before and there are 3 other versions of the seat pad that people have good track records with.
I still have to go diving to see where the QX pads are hiding; Vicki if I can find a set your welcome to them for all the testing and reporting you've been doing; I plan to leverage a ton of what you did so far on my builds. But if those work for you; I have zero doubt in my mind you'll be a prime candidate for a Ventisit comfort pad. I'd start saving up now.
1) My seat pad; looks ok.
1a) no seam quality issues does not look shabby, but 1 factory slip up and it easily could easily look crappy.
1b) The pad is small and skinny
1c) The pad is really deformed by being crushed in the box but I know what it should look like so I reshapped it.
1d) The new all-in-one cover seems to be a change to the mfg process; they need to cut the foam just perfect at the factory; mine cut about 1-2% too big giving it shape issues; once crushed by body a few times it should be fine. 1-2% too small would be a big problem.
1e) This is NOT a high mileage seat pad; a my body weight 30 would be a push; it just the single layer of foam.
1b) The pad is small and skinny
1c) The pad is really deformed by being crushed in the box but I know what it should look like so I reshapped it.
1d) The new all-in-one cover seems to be a change to the mfg process; they need to cut the foam just perfect at the factory; mine cut about 1-2% too big giving it shape issues; once crushed by body a few times it should be fine. 1-2% too small would be a big problem.
1e) This is NOT a high mileage seat pad; a my body weight 30 would be a push; it just the single layer of foam.
2) Seat pan
2a) identical to the Q series maybe 1-2% wider at most.
2b) Every quest pad should work with it.
So as someone that's been here too dam long; that seat pad, yeah I can see it being in the low end bike, I'm not thrilled by it, but considering how many people upgrade their seat pads to Ventisit I'm not too surprised; I would not want a higher price bike to fix the pad; if you are going to control price do it on the replaceable parts. I would be marketing the non-kickstarter version with 3 pad level options (city), (trail) and (road) with them being City=what shipped on kickstarter, Trail = the QX level pad, and Road = Ventisit (classic or comfort)2b) Every quest pad should work with it.
The bad news is the marketing verbiage means different things to different people and that pads going to disappoint a portion of the audience. The good news is the seat pan is the same as before and there are 3 other versions of the seat pad that people have good track records with.
I still have to go diving to see where the QX pads are hiding; Vicki if I can find a set your welcome to them for all the testing and reporting you've been doing; I plan to leverage a ton of what you did so far on my builds. But if those work for you; I have zero doubt in my mind you'll be a prime candidate for a Ventisit comfort pad. I'd start saving up now.
Vicki C.
T50 Trailblazer and Silvio newbie
Thanks for looking into this and your willingness to find a solution. If I can replace this seat for not too much outlay I would probably, since I am already invested in it. And some people obviously think that the seat pad cannot possible be the issue if the actually seat itself with no padding is comfortable. I have a bony behind and do need a little something under those sitz bones and pelvis.
I do understand the dynamics that problems will exacerbate over long distances, having ridden double centuries back in the day and trying a pedal shim right before a big ride. Big mistake and the knee was sore for days!
And I am sure I am less tolerant in my 70th year than I was in my 50th. But this problem starts within the first few miles and stopping will fix it briefly and then in a couple of miles back it comes. I don't know if it's just the pad. Some have tried that and said they actually had to buy totally different seats to make a difference. But I do know the pad is not great. I did add one inch foam pieces under the open cell foam on the seat bottom, but I wonder if it just made it worse because it might have angled me back further onto my pelvis girdle. I have taken it out and will ride tomorrow without the additional foam to see.I appreciate you and all the others who have taken my questions to heart and gone out of their way to look at their bikes and parts and offer suggestions. I thought learning to ride the bike would be the hard part. That turned out to be the easiest part of it!
Last edited:
Vicki C.
T50 Trailblazer and Silvio newbie
I think I've been drinking again? I swear every week I will not get involved in bike comfort threads. Why because everyone is unique and what works for one doesn't work for others. Besides no one ever listens to me anyway
I did move the boom to try to force me back against the seat. I was not especially focused on the cushion as the only possible culprit and others have talked about mounting the supports higher on the seat. If I have to do that, at least it will not cause undue harm to the bike. I have also received feedback on the cushion from people who have seen it in person and generally the response is the same as my impression. I also believe in cycling on a DF with the narrowest possible saddle but with a little padding under the sitz bones. Please assume that I am experienced with many years of riding recumbents and DF bikes with various degrees of good or poor fit. I can certainly try riding the bike with no cushion at all and that is definitely a unique suggestion, one I had not yet heard.
I feel you are somehow offended that I would ask about this or that comfort questions are not appropriate. Do understand that it was a complete surprise to me after my years of recumbent riding to find one that might not adjust to fit me. Thank you, though, for "getting involved in comfort threads" despite your normal unwillingness to do so. Perhaps one thing that I gain from your post is that it may be a conditioning issue to a slightly different position from my Rans and Easy Racer bikes and the other recumbents I have ridden, although the seat angle matches my Tour Easys pretty closely. Never had a problem with the Quest I borrowed (and since returned) either from the get-go and did 70 and 80 mile rides on that one. So, this T50 might just be somehow completely different and I will continue to seek out answers and appreciate all the feedback I receive.
Last edited:
Vicki C.
T50 Trailblazer and Silvio newbie
Ok the box is open; I lose the bet about not opening it before September with Eric. Taking one for the team.
1) My seat pad; looks ok.
1a) no seam quality issues does not look shabby, but 1 factory slip up and it easily could easily look crappy.
1b) The pad is small and skinny
1c) The pad is really deformed by being crushed in the box but I know what it should look like so I reshapped it.
1d) The new all-in-one cover seems to be a change to the mfg process; they need to cut the foam just perfect at the factory; mine cut about 1-2% too big giving it shape issues; once crushed by body a few times it should be fine. 1-2% too small would be a big problem.
1e) This is NOT a high mileage seat pad; a my body weight 30 would be a push; it just the single layer of foam.
2) Seat pan
2a) identical to the Q series maybe 1-2% wider at most.So as someone that's been here too dam long; that seat pad, yeah I can see it being in the low end bike, I'm not thrilled by it, but considering how many people upgrade their seat pads to Ventisit I'm not too surprised; I would not want a higher price bike to fix the pad; if you are going to control price do it on the replaceable parts. I would be marketing the non-kickstarter version with 3 pad level options (city), (trail) and (road) with them being City=what shipped on kickstarter, Trail = the QX level pad, and Road = Ventisit (classic or comfort)
2b) Every quest pad should work with it.
The bad news is the marketing verbiage means different things to different people and that pads going to disappoint a portion of the audience. The good news is the seat pan is the same as before and there are 3 other versions of the seat pad that people have good track records with.
I still have to go diving to see where the QX pads are hiding; Vicki if I can find a set your welcome to them for all the testing and reporting you've been doing; I plan to leverage a ton of what you did so far on my builds. But if those work for you; I have zero doubt in my mind you'll be a prime candidate for a Ventisit comfort pad. I'd start saving up now.
You are a gem! Thank you for understanding that even though I understand I can come across as just cranky, I really am trying to find a solution that works for me and may encourage others to share their experiences and what works. I can tell you that I sure wish, as I did when I was in high school, that they let women take metal shop instead of forcing us into homemaking. I still don't really cook and sew well and definitely have a greater interest in being able to build stuff. But there is also a fear of doing irreparable harm.
ratz
Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
You are a gem! Thank you for understanding that even though I understand I can come across as just cranky, I really am trying to find a solution that works for me and may encourage others to share their experiences and what works. I can tell you that I sure wish, as I did when I was in high school, that they let women take metal shop instead of forcing us into homemaking. I still don't really cook and sew well and definitely have a greater interest in being able to build stuff. But there is also a fear of doing irreparable harm.
My 7 year old daughter got a tool box for christmas
