Taking the training out on the open road.

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
Disclaimer: I didn't think this was all that interesting; I was just out for a jaunt but Larry wants a ride report

Training Regimen:
8-10 weeks of Trainer Road Traditional Base High Volume;
with a self emposed MAF limit of 133 BPM to ensure aerobic compliance; when-ever possible
Training Goals:
Loose Weight,
Maintain FTP
Grow Aerobic base.
I like to ride at no effort and still be able to talk at cruzing speeds
Training Environment Parameters:
Vendetta 2.x
Kickr
Freezing cold basement
Fit the training in when ever possible 5am or 11pm doesn't matter just do it.​

There has been other stuff but that was 95% of it. I don't produce a high FTP on the trainer I'm currently at about 210 watts and I started out about 181.

So this weekend was the first time to take things out on the road and enjoy it (aka life's been busy). Of course since this is Memorial day in the U.S. it started out Cold and Rainy so this precluded a Quality Ride on Saturday or Sunday. So rather than ride or train on Saturday and Sunday we wound up laying Pavers to make a patio. That entailed moving something like 7.5 tons of Pavers on Saturday in the rain the entire day, the soreness in the body says that counted well enough for the two days of no bike trainer. After pavers we had a work crisis and I stay up dealing with that until 2:30am, spent 30 minutes prepping all the bike stuff and then at 3:00 headed to bed. Snacked too much on Nuts and fruit but I knew the ride was coming the next day and the munchies had me.

5:10 Alarm goes off. Yeah nice nap. I do really fine on low sleep as long as I don't walk up during REM cycle. We have an Aura alarm clock with sleep monitors that can actually time when it wakes you up so that it's not in a REM cycle very handy. (thing also tracks a ton of sleep data that I use for planning my recovery, but that's a different post). Go downstairs have a Bullet Proof coffee drank about ⅔ because short on time.

Rolled out at 5:48 am about 4 minutes after sunrise. Wanted to roll at 5:15 but wasn't moving that fast. Since it was 52F out and I'm a wimp I elected to where my cycling rain/wind breaker as it's the only coat I can stow on bike in my Solo Century configuration.

Bike was setup with in the 28-32lb configuration (didn't weigh it but estimated based on past tests); full batteries; 5 water bottles, cameras, tools, tubes, etc. (might be as heavy as 35lbs) Under that configuration I can get 100-130 miles without refueling depending on the temperature. It's heavy but better than making the wife drive 2 hours to fetch me for a breakdown.

Goal when I rolled out; ride, just ride, nothing more; The route was pretty flat only 3000ft of climbing most of it in the beginning; then slightly uphill until mile 50 and then slightly downhill the rest of the way; definitely "rolling hills" I have a bunch of footage from testing the Fly12 that I'll pull some vids from next week to show off the camera results. (thing is heavy but it takes a pretty picture).

Wind was from the South so it was cold, into the wind, up hill for the first 50. In the end I average 17.9 mph on that first half. I'm not heavy on the pause button on the garmin; it's set to auto-pause at 2mph. Since I don't blast through stop signs, but I do usually roll the country ones at about 4-5mph that tends to pull my averages down. I like to consider my average speed door-to-door+traffic control+bathrooms, that takes the pressure off the need to push the average higher. It's not a race after all it's just a ride. However, most of my 50 mile stuff averages around 19.8-21.0 mph so that was a slow go by comparison. Wind breaker was a bit of a parachute on the ride; need a better solution or a tighter fitting one. (or better weather)

Second half of the ride without the wind breaker, was a more respectable 19.6mph average. Mostly that was a tail wind. Finish up with an 18.7mph average, with Cadence at 84rpm and power nicely contained at 125w. For long rides if the down hill hits 30mph I stop pedaling and save energies for the next hill; they might be short but there are a lot of them over and over again.

Finished up with 109 miles Rolling time 5:50minutes; but there was 30 minutes of stops in there; probably 10 minutes to ditch the coat and 4 x 5 min bathroom stops; without the crops growing yet; and consistent traffic, gas stations are the order of the day. Cold+Hydration = stop.

Data From the ride.

HR goal spend 50% of the time in recover or aerobic (<144 bpm) if can be below MAF 133 all the better. Strategy Rest on the down hill and keep cadence level. Person evaluation: B+

Screen Shot 2016-05-31 at 23.03.02 PM.png

Cadence; stay in the 85-90 range; minimize anything below 70, try to spend some time above 90. Stop pedaling over 30mph, Personal Evaluation: A-

Screen Shot 2016-05-31 at 23.03.36 PM.png

Speed on the flats find a rhythm that nets 18-20 with the least effort. Personal Evaluation B- (kept drifting to the 16-18mph range).

Screen Shot 2016-05-31 at 23.03.57 PM.png


Target a normalize power of 180, spend most of the time below 80% of ftp. So 168watts. But on the hills since they are all short let it rip but keep rpm's high. If below 80rpm ease up and finish smooth. In most cases try to accelerate up the hill. Work the up, rest on the down. This routes hills you rarely carry because the valley is either too wide; or the it's a super steep gully at 12% both sides; yeah short but not something you can sling shot. My hill strategy is get them over with so I can get back to being lazy on the flats. Grade A-

Screen Shot 2016-05-31 at 23.01.42 PM.png Screen Shot 2016-05-31 at 23.02.35 PM.png


Finished with about ⅕ of the water left, ate small packet of almond butter at the 5o mile mark just to stave off any belly hunger probably didn't need it just want to try it and see how the stomach would react. Zero Problems.

Conclusion the Vendetta is a fast bike; and I enjoy being a lazy rider far more than being racer-boy. Heck of a good way to spend a Holiday morning. Enjoying the scenery and listening to a SciFi Audio book; I'd have been faster to music; but I like books even if they make me slow.

Like I said boring just how I like it.... But I'm sold on the slow and steady Aerobic training using both Power & HR; that was far easier than any ride of that mileage that I've ever done in May. Weather and time permitting I'd like to make the 100 milers a weekly thing; we'll see how the summer goes.



 

hoyden

Well-Known Member
Like I said boring just how I like it....
Riding is it's own enjoyment; I don't need competition (even with self), and I definitely don't need to push my adolescent riding skills to the max. Riding is fresh air, exercise, meditation, practicing my MBB handling, and train watching (path follows the BNSF Wayzata Sub).

That's an impressive ride analysis. Are there specific components that you like best to collect and display the data? I use a GPS and heart rate monitor to provide simple ride metrics but none of them show the trend and time lines.
 

Nick Kanwetz

New Member
Lovin' the detailed analysis here mate. Keep up the solid work, as I'm sure its already paying off!

PS. We had the same starting FTP ;-)

Happy Training!

Community Manager at TrainerRoad — Cycling's Most Effective Training Tool
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
What is MAF? I have not run across this term in training books before.

Dr Phil Mafatone was training runners back before HR monitors existed. He had people running with portable EKG's at tracks and studying them. Can be argued that he has more data on the HR and endurance than any one guy others make similar assursutions. It's his method that recommends slowing down to go faster and training at an HR that ensures aerobic compliance. A "MAF" test is just short hand for seeing how far you can run or ride in 1 hour when staying at 180HR- age. Runners use it to measure aerobic base capacity and it's growth over structured training. For the biking stuff' I am finding it works really good indoors on a trainer where you can control conditions so that HR is more stable (Aka big fans, cool basement). on the open road it's less useful as baking on the asphault in the heat messes up HR rates. This is why we have power meters for the road.

So with the training regimes I've been working on; we've been using MAF as an aerobic control; then learning what Power Meter measures for the power that is possible to sustain at MAF rates; then when we head out on the road we can use the power meter at those levels to try and better manage the level we are doing sustaned riding at. Example right now in controlled conditions I can sustain 135 watts at 133bpm for 3.5 hours on the trainer at 95 rpm. When I start working on this it was 115 watts. I can extrapolate that to being able to average 135 watts for 7 hours on the outdoor road without blowing up; and riding in a mostly fasted state. Today I did a test run, fasted in high heat; the HR wasn't very useful; but my weighted average power was around 139 watts and I did maintain that for 7 hours; got home and only had to eat Normal. So the ride was mostly an aerobic run / active recovery run accept when riding up hills.

So it's a tool in the quiver to use the bio-data to better figure stuff out and add more understanding to what the power meter output means. FTP is cool and it gives a structured training level; but show me someone average/mortal that says they can really ride at FTP for an hour; and I will show you a liar. Since that is true, we need to figure out what percentages of FTP is sustainable aerobic and what is sustainable anaerobic. There is much debate on where those levels and percentages are; and as you go from person to person it's very subjective....... By measuring the MAF sustainable wattage in a control environment; I (me) think we can get quality power number that someone can sustain and be in the aerobic zone. For Ultra style events this is really useful to know. Also For people that want to go ride and not get zonked and effectively burn fat when riding it's also really useful. It might be conservative versus other approach, but I am out on the road testing in on 75-120 mile rides to see how well it works. I am a science guy but I believe you must test stuff in the real world. This is why Larry was willing to go ride at that gosh awful hours. We wanted to know if night and hours awake affected his ability to generate power. We now have a number and it's close to his day time number, very close. So when he does his next 24 HR effort if he fades below that; we'll know it was pacing and fueling; and not darkness was the problem. Fuzzy number but more than we had before. Big event to you go for the Draft and let others dictate the pace; or do you ride you sustainable rate and try and negative split as often as possible per hour for 24. Which one gets you the best results. Don't know, doesn't stop us from trying to figure it out.

I'll be adding today 2xmetric ride report to this thread today or tomorrow when time. The rides up in strava just have process in wko4 and write it up. Short version it was hot, the bike was heaving; power weight average was 139, 120 miles, just a smudge below 18mph average with no wind coming into play. Oh and no Bear-Dog monster this time.
 
Very impressive! Maybe some day I will be able to ride that fast for that long. Wish I could buy a power meter but my spouse would blow her top if I bought one.
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
Training Regimen Update
Been weak on the training regularity; having to grabbing Trainer Road Sessions when I can.
Finally switched to early morning sessions 4:30am; due to work conflicts with the 9pm stuff.
Have a custom plan of Traditional Base scheduled as a run up to the Portland Event.


Training Goals Update:
Loose Weight; Down to the last 6-8 lbs to go to get back into the 150s
Raise FTP just a little or make sure it doesn't slip
Probably can dust off the last of that weight if I can be diligent on the volume I eat.

Two new outdoor test rides completed.

Ride 1: Repeat of the first long outdoor ride, but added 20 mile loop to make it a double metric and added some more climbing
Ride 2: Was planned for 180 but weather and 20+ mph windows changed that to a solid 140


Ride 1:
130 miles;
3400ft climbing
Condition 3 mph winds all day
Temps at speed: 60 - 90 (temp if not moving 100f) No Clouds
5:40am start
Sleep 4 hours
Left Fasted
Fuel on ride: two almond butter packages (total 380 cals)

Ride 2:
140 miles
2822ft climbing
Conditions: 12 mph winds at start; grew steadily to a constant 20-22mph
Temps at speed: 70 - 90 (temp if not moving 100f) No Clouds
6:20 am start
Sleep 4.5 hours
Left Fasted
Fuel on ride: three almond butter packages, 1 small cup of strawberries and pineapple (Total 600 cals)


Data from both rides look good but they were very different Ride experiences; Ride 1 I was pretty shot at the end in-terms of my mood. The 20 mile loop I added to the route was really crap roads that I hadn't ridden before. Bounced me around for no real gain and the extra climbing it added was short steeps but spaces far enough apart not to be rollers. Without any wind that left me in a pretty warm affair on the bike. Mean while on Ride 2; it was a battle from the go; while it was short on climbing the gravity-well it was pretty much an all day of climbing the wind; it was actually a bit hotter but it felt more tolerable with the wind. When I stopped on Ride 2 to get home for the rest of fathers day it felt like I had another 60-80 miles in my legs no problem.

If we compare the HR data from both rides; Ride 1 I spent a lot more time in the 155-160 range. 75 minutes versus 28 minutes on Ride 2. From historical data that range is my heat-coping zone. 160+ is what I do on long or steep climbs, and short stuff I usually max out at below 154. That range in between doesn't happen unless I'm hot so it's a good measure for me personally of how I managed the temp. Ride 1 I really baked so when I headed out this week I dedicated 1 water bottle as the shower bottle; not drinking from it but just using it to regularly wet down the kit. Work really well; aid stations by convenience store as usual for water resupply.

(All graphs are ride 1 first ride 2 second; software generates a variable x-axis for the graphs so you can't just eyeball them by position; you have to read the x - scale to compare them, could have fixed that if I had more time).

r1hr.png r2hr.png

Cadence data for both rides was pretty consistent more coating on ride 1 but that was the terrain at work. Most work done in the 80-95 range

r1cad.pngr2cad.png

Speed data shows the typical effects of pacing and conditions. Both rides cluster around the 19mph range. Which match up with my target of pacing at 145 watts for an aerobic steady state ride. On ride 1 the graph is pulled in tighter; on ride 2 it's spread out wider as I went slower into the wind and like a rocket with a tail wind. Crosswinds had normal speed just had to work a little harder than normal to hold it.

r1speed.png r2speed.png


Power data bares out the previous observation. For both rides the 6 Hour Mean max Normalized Power was on target for 145watts. That translates to be being aerobic except when riding up the wind or up a hill.

r1power.png
r2power.png

A big part of that is all the time I spent on Trainer Road to increase the watts I can hold at aerobically; that increases my recovery speed so when sprint up hill I can quickly get back into a aerobic zone. Ride 2 had a higher average from the steady strong wind and ride 1 had a higher variability because it was hills (hence the larger gap between the yellow and purple lines)

r1maxmean.png
r2maxmean.png Peak powers track about as expected with Peak 60 minute power being in the high 130's both rides.

r1peakpwr.png r2peakpwr.png

I was fortunate on these rides didn't cross paths with other bikers (riding in bug-tussle has it's advantages) so I didn't need to resist the urge to open the bike up. Make no mistake there is some discipline to ride at a prescribed pace.

Next up is to keep knocking out century's until the Portland trip; then I have to squeeze in a 200 miler or 2. No time or money to do the official RAAM 200 in July it's badly placed on the calendar. The official 200 or 400 MN RAAM stuff is on the plan for next year.

Right now I estimate I can complete the required 400 in 24 hours and I would say I'm about ⅛ of the way on the progression of the planned training. Pretty happy with the early returns.

Going to just keep pushing out how long I can continue to average 19-20mph we'll worry about faster later. Not having to be self supported would save me about 5-10lbs on the bike and not have to stop for fuel will be more gains; but it is also nice to roll as a mostly self-sufficient entity. The next PBP is out of the question for me timing with kids will suck , but the one after that might have to get on the old target list.

I still had enough energy to put a hurt on the young kid with the mohawk I ran into; cool kid though he had 50 in when I saw him and he did a full 100 miles according to Strava (in that 22mph wind)....

So the next question is can anybody do these sort of miles and feel good at the end without needing 3 days to recover? Sure not a problem. When looking at any of this data understand that I simply sit on the trainer for 1.5 - 2.5 hours watch tv and ride at what would be considered a slow pace. I can then take that training out on the road and as long as I'm smart about the pacing; the Vendetta will translate that effort into a 19mph over 7 hour result. This is before adapting any workouts to raise my power levels and strength.

That's probably the last of these I'll post. They can get boring an repetitive. After we get some people further along in the 4f training program; I'll get permission to tear apart the data from one of their long efforts in a similar fashion.
 
Last edited:

jond

Zen MBB Master
Wind breaker was a bit of a parachute on the ride; need a better solution or a tighter fitting one. (or better weather)

hi ratz did you check out the gore wear o2 shell jacket. expensive but best bit of kit i have owned. very slim fitting be warned. i can fit the jacket into a medium topeak bag like you used on the v2. i wear an xl. i am 6ft1 81kg 32 inch waist so pretty slim and it fits me well. keeps me warm down to 4 deg c and breathes about as much as any jacket can.
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
hi ratz did you check out the gore wear o2 shell jacket. expensive but best bit of kit i have owned. very slim fitting be warned. i can fit the jacket into a medium topeak bag like you used on the v2. i wear an xl. i am 6ft1 81kg 32 inch waist so pretty slim and it fits me well. keeps me warm down to 4 deg c and breathes about as much as any jacket can.

It's in my WTB (want to buy) bookmark list. We won't be cold enough for that until October; so I'm glad to not need it for awhile. Next solution needs to be something for wind burned lips.
 

Rick Youngblood

CarbonCraft Master
It's in my WTB (want to buy) bookmark list. We won't be cold enough for that until October; so I'm glad to not need it for awhile. Next solution needs to be something for wind burned lips.
You already have the solution -> Kickr :D - that's a good question, I get that too.
 

snilard

Guru of hot glue gun
hi ratz did you check out the gore wear o2 shell jacket. expensive but best bit of kit i have owned. very slim fitting be warned. i can fit the jacket into a medium topeak bag like you used on the v2. i wear an xl. i am 6ft1 81kg 32 inch waist so pretty slim and it fits me well. keeps me warm down to 4 deg c and breathes about as much as any jacket can.
I have bought orange Bontrager RXL Convertible 180 Softshell Jacket recently and really like it's form fit and bright color. Sleeves could be little bit slimmer but I usually use it as vest so no problem.
 
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